[Partless]

Hi, I don't know if this makes any sense to you guys, but couple weeks ago in the middle of a severe depressive episode, my therapist said my problem was that I had started to rely on other people to provide me with compassion, love, care, and due to guilt or fear or whatever reason, had not given myself permission to develop a loving place inside. That this puts me at the mercy of every interaction (mainly with my parents) to decide how I will feel the rest of the week.

I told her I can't and it makes me vulnerable to be kind to myself and also feels weird. I said I hate vulnerability, partly cause mom used to crush it in herself and in me growing up, but also because I don't know what to do do with vulnerability, and for me to care for myself, to go into that place that's soft and loving in me, when in the middle of problems and difficulties in the outside world, it frightens me, like it doesn't feel safe, like I have to be enraged and angry to feel ready to face the world in those circumstances. I need armor and high walls and hypervigilance.

But my therapist seemed fed up a bit and she said but that's my problem, I am unable to let go, and that's why I can't sleep despite us having tried several medications, that's why I'm always extremely tense and have all these body aches. She said after trauma something happened in me and I have turned my back on my caring and loving place inside.

So since then I been trying to think back to see if I even had that place and how that place will be different in a guy who is in his 30s, like if it's a childish place, like what does it look like. Is it all that "child inside" talk or is it something else. My therapist left it to me to figure it out but I am struggling with it big time, thinking for me to imagine and create and eventually retire to such place after a hard day and after bad things happening in my world outside, feels so unsafe.

Appreciate comments, and if criticisms, please be kind. Thank you very much.

[Walking Man]

I can relate. My T also gets "fed up".

I don't know if this is right, but it seems to me that if you haven't experienced enough love and compassion you tend to harden yourself. I get angry because I feel neglected and abandoned. When people help it never seems to be enough because I don't have any intimate relationships and am always struggling. People start looking like adversaries because I see them as always rejecting and withholding.

Some people visited the house where I am staying alone today. It was two young ladies and their little kids. They weren't really here to see me, but they were very compassionate. It made me feel great, like returning to myself. I realized how bad isolation can be. We are social by nature, meant to have deep and meaningful connections with other people. If those needs aren't being met, we can't help seeking them at every opportunity. When we try to connect and are disappointed or rejected, it's natural to get upset. It's not the particular incident or person that is so upsetting, it's the repetition and continued disappointment. It's like if you were starving and someone wouldn't share their snack.

I imagine therapists deal with this a lot, but I can't help wondering if someone who's needs are being met can really understand what it's like when they aren't. I think self compassion comes from being treated by others with compassion. If people are meeting your needs you feel better about yourself. If they aren't meeting your needs, it's very difficult not to be hard on yourself.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Partless

Hi, I don't know if this makes any sense to you guys, but couple weeks ago in the middle of a severe depressive episode, my therapist said my problem was that I had started to rely on other people to provide me with compassion, love, care, and due to guilt or fear or whatever reason, had not given myself permission to develop a loving place inside. That this puts me at the mercy of every interaction (mainly with my parents) to decide how I will feel the rest of the week.

I told her I can't and it makes me vulnerable to be kind to myself and also feels weird. I said I hate vulnerability, partly cause mom used to crush it in herself and in me growing up, but also because I don't know what to do do with vulnerability, and for me to care for myself, to go into that place that's soft and loving in me, when in the middle of problems and difficulties in the outside world, it frightens me, like it doesn't feel safe, like I have to be enraged and angry to feel ready to face the world in those circumstances. I need armor and high walls and hypervigilance.

But my therapist seemed fed up a bit and she said but that's my problem, I am unable to let go, and that's why I can't sleep despite us having tried several medications, that's why I'm always extremely tense and have all these body aches. She said after trauma something happened in me and I have turned my back on my caring and loving place inside.

So since then I been trying to think back to see if I even had that place and how that place will be different in a guy who is in his 30s, like if it's a childish place, like what does it look like. Is it all that "child inside" talk or is it something else. My therapist left it to me to figure it out but I am struggling with it big time, thinking for me to imagine and create and eventually retire to such place after a hard day and after bad things happening in my world outside, feels so unsafe.

Appreciate comments, and if criticisms, please be kind. Thank you very much.

I understand what you're feeling. It's hard for me to be kind to myself, too. And it can be difficult for me to believe that other people (including my husband, T, and marriage counselor, plus friends/family) could accept and care about me despite my various faults and issues.

At one point a few months ago, my marriage counselor (who sometimes provides what's basically individual therapy to me within our joint sessions) seemed to have a sudden realization about what I was saying and feeling. He was like, "Do you ever just feel like there's a void inside of you, and no one can completely fill it?" I thought for a few seconds and was like, "Actually, yes, I think I do." He said that no one could fill it for me, that I had to figure out how to do that for myself, but said that he and my T (and my H) could support me and help me in figuring out how to do that.

What you're describing reminds me of that. I've worked on it some with my individual T, but it's hard, when you've been used to feeling and thinking a certain way for a long time (I'm 38), to change that.

It sounds like your T is observing something like this, but is almost being critical of you for it? Which isn't fair. She should be trying to help you work through it, whatever that involves. Could be addressing stuff from your past or present, changing thought patterns (that's kind of a cognitive-behavioral thing), etc. I'm definitely still working on it, but I don't feel from my T or MC that they're being impatient or, as you said, fed up with me. (OK, maybe a little bit at times, if I won't accept credit for something I did well.)

I'd tell your T that you need help figuring it out. It's not going to happen overnight, and your T should realize that. Her job is to help you get through it and figure it out.

Hope this helps somehow!

[Argonautomobile]

Why don’t you start by making a mental list of situations/places/events/things that gave you a sense of worth and security? I imagine it’ll look something like a ‘favorites’ list—favorite people, places, pets, time of day, season of year, etc. It might also look like an ‘accomplishments’ list—this or that thing you did well, compliment you received, things like that.

Whatever it is that all of those things on the list have in common, maybe that thing is your ‘place.’ It might not “look” like anything at all—it might just be a feeling that you can, over time, internalize and carry with you.

My T thinks I can build that place by watching her model it.

She says nurturing things and suggests things I can say to myself. I feel weird and so I do so half heartedly, but the key is supposedly that I'm willing to try.

In the beginning though, I couldn't even open my mouth to say the gentle, sometimes fiercely protective things she suggested.

[Partless]

Thanks for the comments thus far, I appreciate them everyone, they're helpful to me.

Originally Posted by Walking Man

I can relate. My T also gets "fed up"...
Some people visited the house where I am staying alone today. It was two young ladies and their little kids. They weren't really here to see me, but they were very compassionate. It made me feel great, like returning to myself. I realized how bad isolation can be.

Just to comment on this, I had a similar experience a week ago, when the person filling in the for the landlord accidentally thought I wanted to move, so had brought a young couple to visit the apartment. The mixup was understandable and since the apartment was in good shape and neat (I had done the cleaning the day before), I let them in. There was another apartment on rent just like mine so this visit was of use to them.

What took me by surprise was something about the kindness in this young couple and their lovely little girl. Something about how hopeful and happy they looked. They were, despite their unique appearance, just like the pictures in those picture frames, in the spirit, like a happy generous family. The guy had a nice warm voice and apologized and also expressed gratitude at me accommodating them. Despite his accent, his voice felt so familiar to me, like just the kind of voice a father should have. The wife was spending the time looking at the rooms to see which would be best for her daughter, seemed like a picture of caring. There was so much positivity in them I almost forgot it was cold and raining hard outside and the winter chill was coming from under the door.

It made me quite sad though because the familiarity of all this was just a reminder of what I had lost and what I could have had and what I needed.

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

It sounds like your T is observing something like this, but is almost being critical of you for it?

Yes, that's how it came across to me, as if my T was getting tired and fed-up, that I was not getting better. This discussion had come up before, about me finding a safe place inside me, a place of compassion, so that I won't depend so much on external cues. Which is hard because I grew up in an enmeshed family and also because I'm currently quite isolated. It's easier when you have other good people in your life, to recover and find yourself, than when you're alone.
My shame is really stopping me from stepping out. The years I was not working, not going to school, not doing anything, they're like a "loser" sign shining on my head. Somehow if you say you had PTSD, unless you have gone to war, it seems people think something is deeply wrong with you if other things affected you so badly. But if it's physical illness, people are understanding. So I kind of live in this prison, partly imposed by difficulties of life and partly imposed by myself. And it's hurting me, and I know I need to get out of it before I can let people, loving people, into my life and let myself receive their kindness. But it's so hard.

So in a way I understand my T's frustration. I have okay health and otherwise could do something with my life. I'm wasting it away because of things in the past. And stuck in this place where I go between self-pitying or being numb to everything or being far too open to everything and getting hurt day in and day out. So my T wants me to find an inner place of strength that gets me through it and it's hard because though I intellectually remember a time I could go into myself to recharge and and recover, emotionally I don't remember what that felt like.

[Argonautomobile]

Originally Posted by Partless

I had a similar experience a week ago, when the person filling in the for the landlord accidentally thought I wanted to move, so had brought a young couple to visit the apartment. The mixup was understandable and since the apartment was in good shape and neat (I had done the cleaning the day before), I let them in. There was another apartment on rent just like mine so this visit was of use to them.

What took me by surprise was something about the kindness in this young couple and their lovely little girl. Something about how hopeful and happy they looked. They were, despite their unique appearance, just like the pictures in those picture frames, in the spirit, like a happy generous family. The guy had a nice warm voice and apologized and also expressed gratitude at me accommodating them. Despite his accent, his voice felt so familiar to me, like just the kind of voice a father should have. The wife was spending the time looking at the rooms to see which would be best for her daughter, seemed like a picture of caring. There was so much positivity in them I almost forgot it was cold and raining hard outside and the winter chill was coming from under the door.

It made me quite sad though because the familiarity of all this was just a reminder of what I had lost and what I could have had and what I needed.

This is lovely. I think it's a really encouraging thing that you recognize and appreciate that loving/caring place when you see it. Yes, I can understand it making you really sad--been there myself--but when you are sensitive and attuned to worthwhile things--especially worthwhile things about people--there's good reason to hope.

I believe you can find this in yourself and for yourself. It's a slow process, that's for sure, but the more you're attuned to it and see it, the easier it becomes to generate it.

[Cinnamon_Stick]

I cant find a place of loving and caring inside. I don't like myself. I don't know how to find that inside of myself. I feel better when loving and caring comes from someone I love and care about.

[AllHeart]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon_Stick

I cant find a place of loving and caring inside. I don't like myself. I don't know how to find that inside of myself. I feel better when loving and caring comes from someone I love and care about.

I feel that way many days also. Once in a while I figure getting in the shower, brushing my hair and teeth, dressing in decent clothes means I do care for myself in some respects so that's at least a start. Going to a therapist on a regular basis must mean one cares for themselves, right? I think reaching out on this forum shows you care for yourself. I guess if we all really look at the little things we do in life, we might see we care for ourselves more than we realize. How to dig in, access that care, and make it grow is beyond me though.

[just2b]

I have really liked reading this post. Very thoughtful responses. I can relate to this also. I have a hard time finding that place and sometimes when I do it just doesnt feel right. But when it comes from T or my kids...i soak it up!!

[BayBrony]

For me this is a place I have created inside my head. A vast wilderness peopled with animals and spirits who are my friends. When I need safety I go there. My guides there speak the caring things I'm trying to.learn to say to myself. Maybe this only works because I am a writer and am good at imagining things. But to me its a real safe place that I can retreat to in meditation where I am known and loved and wanted. Building it has been a slow process but worthwhile. Eventually I hope I can carry thesense of safety I find there into my regular life

[Cinnamon_Stick]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

I feel that way many days also. Once in a while I figure getting in the shower, brushing my hair and teeth, dressing in decent clothes means I do care for myself in some respects so that's at least a start. Going to a therapist on a regular basis must mean one cares for themselves, right? I think reaching out on this forum shows you care for yourself. I guess if we all really look at the little things we do in life, we might see we care for ourselves more than we realize. How to dig in, access that care, and make it grow is beyond me though.

I never thought of this until you posted it. It is true. Showering, going to a therapist and reaching out on here is good ways of taking care of yourself. So I guess that means I take care of myself. Some days it doesn't feel like that is doing a lot though.

What's wrong with 'relying' on others compassion? I think that's an odd way of putting whatever it was she's trying to communicate to you.
Until you've had enough outside compassion, there is no inside place.

Is a process. Does your T not have the patience and confidence in herself to provide this?