[Eucalyptus]

Is this a sign of something? I've been told this at least once before by a therapist. Our struggle is on one hand, my and my therapist's desire for me to work toward being free of the burden of carrying a painful history with me, and on the other, my (and only my) wanting my original story which nobody can do anything about to be heard and *acknowledged*. She feels she has done enough to satisfy the latter of the two conflicting directions that I just laid out. But she feels I am not "satisfiable" (my made up word, not hers). I like my therapist very much; however, I do not feel she really has taken seriously, or been completely straightforward with me about my need for my history to be acknowledged. Not sure what to do.

[AncientMelody]

I think it's important for pain to be validated. What has she done so far to validate your pain and what do you feel she NEEDS to do but isn't doing to validate you?

I am a little confused what she means by 'done enough'. IMO, the comment seems judgmental and subjective. What's enough for one person may not be enough for another person.

I'm not sure what theoretical orientation your therapist is, but my bare minimum requirement for a therapist is to sit there and let me talk about whatever I want to talk about, for as long as I need to talk about it for, without judgment. I think a very important part of therapy is getting out things we've been keeping inside. I don't see anything wrong with having your history validated at all!

This would be a great discussion to have with your therapist. It would be good to understand where she's coming from with her commentary, and the perfect time to align on therapy goals.

[Eucalyptus]

Thank you AncientMelody and FallingFreely! The T and I talked about this for an entire session recently. I think the feel between us is positive but the feel of a potential break between us lurks as well. Possibly she didn't say "done enough". Certainly she said she didn't know what more she could do to make me feel as though she has heard and acknowledged by story. I think she is actually trying to emphasize her desire for me to move on from the past or work on un-sticking myself from it. And, at the same time, I suspect she is covering up or working from a defensive place with regard to coming to understand the harsh nature of my background story over time. Too often she doesn't "get" what I'm trying to convey, and/or I feel I'm being too vigorously prompted by her to come up with the goods that will make her feel satisfied about the details of my story. These issues have to do with early attachment issues, or it's probably correct to say "betrayal trauma" based in early primary relationships. It's tricky to know what I should do, stay the course and try to forge a re-newed relationship with my current T, or move on to a new one who might be better suited to understand and acknowledge what once was, and work forward with that new T. Maybe I should look at there being one correct answer. Either might be ok?

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by Eucalyptus

Is this a sign of something? I've been told this at least once before by a therapist. Our struggle is on one hand, my and my therapist's desire for me to work toward being free of the burden of carrying a painful history with me, and on the other, my (and only my) wanting my original story which nobody can do anything about to be heard and *acknowledged*. She feels she has done enough to satisfy the latter of the two conflicting directions that I just laid out. But she feels I am not "satisfiable" (my made up word, not hers). I like my therapist very much; however, I do not feel she really has taken seriously, or been completely straightforward with me about my need for my history to be acknowledged. Not sure what to do.

Why are those two directions conflicting? The second seems more like a big step towards the first to me.

As for your question, it is up to you when you are satisfied, not her. A therapist should talk about almost every conceivable issue as much as you need to talk about it.

(((hugs)))

[Favorite Jeans]

Maybe it also takes time? You can do great work and not feel an immediate sense of relief. It might take a while to integrate your understanding, acceptance and self-compassion into your emontional reality even though your rational brain can grasp it right away. Deep, old trauma doesn't usually get zapped away in a few sessions.

Maybe your T isn't giving you the empathy you need because of whatever limitations she has. But maybe you just need her empathy, patience and presence about the very same issues again and again, session after session, until you have integrated it and you don't need it so much anymore. Frustratingly, no one can tell you when that will be.

It sounds as though you feel like your T is impatient for you to get over this. Maybe check with her about this? My sense that my T's patience with me is pretty bottomless is very helpful.

Originally Posted by Eucalyptus

Is this a sign of something? I've been told this at least once before by a therapist. Our struggle is on one hand, my and my therapist's desire for me to work toward being free of the burden of carrying a painful history with me, and on the other, my (and only my) wanting my original story which nobody can do anything about to be heard and *acknowledged*. She feels she has done enough to satisfy the latter of the two conflicting directions that I just laid out. But she feels I am not "satisfiable" (my made up word, not hers). I like my therapist very much; however, I do not feel she really has taken seriously, or been completely straightforward with me about my need for my history to be acknowledged. Not sure what to do.

Your made up word. So what did she actually say? Healing is multilayered. We tell our story over and over

[Eucalyptus]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Your made up word. So what did she actually say? Healing is multilayered. We tell our story over and over

I'm not sure I remember well enough to quote directly. Can most of you do that with your sessions? Anyway, good question though. Whatever the words, it's clear she's challenging me to do, or stop doing, something. Come to think of it, one of the thing's she said was to ask, what can I do to make you feel that I "get it" (or that "I understand what your situation was"). And she used the analogy of a person with a headache. Nobody else can actually feel the headache. She's trying to make the distinction between empathy (which she says is reasonable to expect from the therapist) and "feeling someone's pain" which is not. It's a message I'm intellectually prepared to accept. But it's bloody awkward because over time I've come to realize that she's not well equipped to accept what my pain has been about. Now she admits she didn't get it, but what difference does it make? I'm pretty sure she literally asked me this question but it's hard to remember everything.

Originally Posted by Eucalyptus

I'm not sure I remember well enough to quote directly. Can most of you do that with your sessions? Anyway, good question though. Whatever the words, it's clear she's challenging me to do, or stop doing, something. Come to think of it, one of the thing's she said was to ask, what can I do to make you feel that I "get it" (or that "I understand what your situation was"). And she used the analogy of a person with a headache. Nobody else can actually feel the headache. She's trying to make the distinction between empathy (which she says is reasonable to expect from the therapist) and "feeling someone's pain" which is not. It's a message I'm intellectually prepared to accept. But it's bloody awkward because over time I've come to realize that she's not well equipped to accept what my pain has been about. Now she admits she didn't get it, but what difference does it make? I'm pretty sure she literally asked me this question but it's hard to remember everything.

Sounds a bit harsh.

[Waterbear]

I certainly can't remember much specific about sessions, the odd sentance maybe but mostly just general topics etc. And, in my humble opinion, her showing empathy well would feel like she is feeling my pain, like I feel with my T, by the way she looks, the sounds she makes and the things she says.

And I reckon you have the absolute right to go over this as often as you want or need, you should never 'be ready' to move on until you actually are.

Hi Eucalyptus, it's nice to see you here, a new member.

She's trying to make the distinction between empathy (which she says is reasonable to expect from the therapist) and "feeling someone's pain" which is not.

I think i understand what she is saying, but I don't know if i can explain it articulately enough. Maybe giving examples will help.

What i think your T is talking about happens a lot if for those who grew up in a family who didn't allow boundaries, autonomy, recognizing people as individuals. For example, instead of being there for a child and supporting the child on how to solve her own problems (age appropriate, of course), a parent without boundaries might try to rescue the child by controlling the child, taking away her autonomy. The parent takes actions for the child to prevent her from feeling pain instead of nurturing the child, teaching her how to deal with her own pain and take her own actions. The child never grows.

It doesn't involve just actions though. A certain type of projection is one way people growing up in that type of environment emotionally relate to others. Like in the example above, the controlling parent is projecting her own emotional issues onto the child and acting on those feelings instead of recognizing the child's autonomy. If you are used to people doing this, it might feel distant when someone does not take 'action', no matter how subtle, in response to your emotional pain.

Another way projection manifests is feeling another's pain. You might want to rescue a dog from a pound not just because you care about the dog, but you (unconsciously) are imaging the dog is feeling your pain that you disavowed. I did this as a child; later found out that it was my own pain i imagined the dog to be feeling. it was too painful for my psyche to feel at the time.

Enmeshment is one concept that seems to explain what your therapist is getting at. She's not enmeshing with you, so it might feel like she doesn't get it. Of course maybe she is clueless, but this is what it seems to be imo. It could be that it's as if you need her to 'react' rather than witness with compassion.

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by Eucalyptus

Is this a sign of something? I've been told this at least once before by a therapist. Our struggle is on one hand, my and my therapist's desire for me to work toward being free of the burden of carrying a painful history with me, and on the other, my (and only my) wanting my original story which nobody can do anything about to be heard and *acknowledged*. She feels she has done enough to satisfy the latter of the two conflicting directions that I just laid out. But she feels I am not "satisfiable" (my made up word, not hers). I like my therapist very much; however, I do not feel she really has taken seriously, or been completely straightforward with me about my need for my history to be acknowledged. Not sure what to do.

Keep talking. Therapy is not about what the therapist feels is 'enough', it's about what the patient feels is enough, and you're not feeling it.

At some point, and only when we are ready, when we feel safe enough to, we take a leap of faith to be willing to consider that our story has been heard and understood and taken very seriously. Perhaps you need something more from her. Perhaps the two of you are getting ready to talk about what being 'satisfied'/heard/believed/taken seriously means to you, so you can work on that together. Perhaps there are some very real and terrifying fears about being finally 'satisfied'/heard/believed/taken seriously, or of beginning to move into new territory. Or perhaps there is a fear of losing the therapist if you move away from your story, or the pain of your story; that it seems like talking about your story creates a strong connection with your therapist and if you do come to feel 'satisfied'/heard/believed/taken seriously, that connection could be jeopardized.

Lots of 'perhaps' on my part. I hope you and your therapist can explore together what 'satisfied'/heard/believed/taken seiously means to you.

[Eucalyptus]

Originally Posted by ex vivo

Hi Eucalyptus, it's nice to see you here, a new member.

I think i understand what she is saying, but I don't know if i can explain it articulately enough. Maybe giving examples will help.

What i think your T is talking about happens a lot if for those who grew up in a family who didn't allow boundaries, autonomy, recognizing people as individuals. For example, instead of being there for a child and supporting the child on how to solve her own problems (age appropriate, of course), a parent without boundaries might try to rescue the child by controlling the child, taking away her autonomy. The parent takes actions for the child to prevent her from feeling pain instead of nurturing the child, teaching her how to deal with her own pain and take her own actions. The child never grows.

It doesn't involve just actions though. A certain type of projection is one way people growing up in that type of environment emotionally relate to others. Like in the example above, the controlling parent is projecting her own emotional issues onto the child and acting on those feelings instead of recognizing the child's autonomy. If you are used to people doing this, it might feel distant when someone does not take 'action', no matter how subtle, in response to your emotional pain.

Another way projection manifests is feeling another's pain. You might want to rescue a dog from a pound not just because you care about the dog, but you (unconsciously) are imaging the dog is feeling your pain that you disavowed. I did this as a child; later found out that it was my own pain i imagined the dog to be feeling. it was too painful for my psyche to feel at the time.

Enmeshment is one concept that seems to explain what your therapist is getting at. She's not enmeshing with you, so it might feel like she doesn't get it. Of course maybe she is clueless, but this is what it seems to be imo. It could be that it's as if you need her to 'react' rather than witness with compassion.

Wow, you're right about the type of environment I grew up in! I wish I understood better what you're suggesting about my therapy. You don't think she's clueless (or unable to understand) but you do think she's making a decision for my best interests not to enmesh with me?

ou don't think she's clueless (or unable to understand) but you do think she's making a decision for my best interests not to enmesh with me?

Sorry, i couldn't tell you as i have no way of knowing. It's just that in your posts, you refer to feelings and thoughts coming from you, not her, so it's just one possibility of many.

If it is the case, then you'll understand in time. How long have you been working together?

[Eucalyptus]

Originally Posted by ex vivo

Sorry, i couldn't tell you as i have no way of knowing. It's just that in your posts, you refer to feelings and thoughts coming from you, not her, so it's just one possibility of many.

If it is the case, then you'll understand in time. How long have you been working together?

14 months. Well, she has the feeling I want her to "feel my pain". Not that that's helpful.