Dare me to lay on the couch?

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ECHOES said:

Do you look forward to your next session and will you return to the couch each time now?


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Well of course I am dying for my next session. I don't even know how I am going to make it. I feel completely disconnected now that I am no longer with him.

PINK=NO OBJECT CONSTANCY

As far as the couch, I'm gonna have to check in with him about that. I doubt I will use it every time because there is no way I could endure that intensity every single week. I hope that I will be able to use the couch to the point where I can free associate, but not go into that level of my unconscious every single time. I mean, I know I will need to get to that place, to return there many times. But not every week. That's too intense.

Right now I just want to be with T. Couch, floor, hanging from the %#@&amp;#! ceiling, I don't care. I just want to experience that connection again.

P.S. Echoes, I think you were brave and courageous today, too.

So. . .whats the difference really, b/t general couseling and psychoanalysis?

That whole thing about the couch and the unconsciousness and so on really unnerved me. ..I'm still trying to pull it together. Sheesh

The basic differences is that psychoanalysis is centered around bringing the unconscious mind to consciousness-- to analyze the defenses and resistance that prevents that-- and mostly, psychoanalysis focuses on the here-and-now interactions between the therapist and patient. Emphasis is placed on the relationship between therapist and patient... and of course, most of all, is the occurrence and analysis of transference. While some therapies focus more on a specific problem, analysis is a long-term process that focuses more on a restructuring of the whole personality-- and a dramatic increase in self-awareness... treating the whole person, not the diagnosis.

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Gracey said:

That whole thing about the couch and the unconsciousness and so on really unnerved me. ..I'm still trying to pull it together. Sheesh

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Me too. lol

Oh, and Echoes-- told ya... if you Triple Dog Dare me to do something, it will get done!

So. . .WHY would one desire the unconscious to come to the surface?

Cause that's where all the %#@&#! is, lol. Those who choose to follow an analytical approach believe that the the root of what is pathological is in the unconscious. Repressed memories, unfavorable emotions such as anger, shame, etc... These are things that if not brought to the surface and expressed properly, can lead to a pathological character. And that's where the analyst comes in... and transference... things are brought out of the unconscious, and can be expressed towards the analyst... take me for example... I have lots of anger that has been lurking inside my unconscious... part of what I do in therapy is learn to express that anger towards my therapist... to learn that anger doesn't necessarily have to evoke a pathological response... meaning that when I get angry at him, he is not going to abandon me.. and in turn, I can learn how to transfer that into my everday life, thus figuring out how to express anger properly. I'm rambling a bit. It's a very complicated process. I'm also a psychology student with an analytical orientation so this type of therapy suits me well, as it the approach I take when conducting my own therapy.

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Right now I just want to be with T. Couch, floor, hanging from the %#@&#! ceiling, I don't care. I just want to experience that connection again.

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Oh, I understand!!

I wonder if the couch would be that intense every week... or if you would feel that intensity. Remember how intense just sitting and talking to T was in the beginning? Now it's less intense, right? So, possibly the same could happen with the couch experience as it becomes more familiar to you?

P.S. Thank you pink! I stopped on the way home (smudged mascara and all,from crying) and bought several cards to mail to her while she's out. No idea if someone will forward them to her. But one I love has a St Bernard slouched on the floor moping, and it says

"Philosophy theory for the day: I miss you... .... and inside " Therefore, I am sad..

Another has sad dog with his chin resting on a porch railing and says on the outside: "You're not here." and inside "I HATE that!."

It was really hard finding appropriate ones (some of the Love ones seemed appropriate to ME! lol) and wondered if Hallmark isn't missing an opportunity here... cards for your therapist? National Therapist Day?

Mmmmmmmm

Oh wow I'm sorry I missed the preamble to all of this Pink!

What an amazing session!! I really like how you both interact. You give such a great description that I almost feel like I'm in the room.

The humor you added about the guy and all, I would've said exactly the same thing and I think my T would've responded as yours did. How funny

I like how he tells you that he is not going anywhere. Lately, my T has said here and there how he isn't trying to get rid of me. That was one of my huge concerns not long ago. I love hearing that from him...

I was sort of confused about the couch when I first started reading this thread. I sit on the couch every week. There isn't another chair in the room. I often wonder if I should lay on it or not. But then I think...I'm wearing shoes and do you take them off or what? and how uncomfortable it would be for me to ask him anyway. I like the eye contact though too. I don't know if I could talk if I couldn't see him.

I usually plop down and hold the lavender pillow tightly. It is my favorite color. It helps me feel more connected when I'm there.

I must say thank you for sharing all of this.

Pink, your posts are fascinating! I wanted to respond last night, but I was dead tired. But I read this thread because I was dying to hear the outcome! Your sessions are wild. That sounds so intense. I think it's a good call to do the couch thing only occasionally as it sounds over-the-top intense.

I bet your therapist loves working with you. I know you must be a truly fascinating client. He sounds so great.

BTW your husband sounds like a really good guy.

I don't think my own T uses the couch like that. I guess it's not really analysis as much as just psychotherapy. There's a big comfy couch, but he's never suggested I lie on it. I like seeing him anyhow -- for me, the interaction is most important. I wouldn't feel free at all to talk if I couldn't see him, so I don't think we'd get anywhere! I doubt his other clients lie down either. At least the ones in my group sometimes mention where they sit in individual therapy (side note: I never say one word about individual therapy while I'm in group) so clearly they don't lie down.

Anyway, that was really fascinating and thanks for sharing! I hope you're recovering somewhat from the sheer intensity of it.

Sidony

Just to clarify 'the couch'

It's not like a sofa-type thing that you'd find in someone's livingroom or anything.

My 1st and 2nd therapists both had couches in their offices. But they were couches like you'd find in a livingroom. I would always sit on the couch.

But the couch in my T's office is not really a 'couch,' rather it is the type of thing you'd find in a chiropractor's office or something. Made out of that plastic material or whatever it is. It is set up against the wall, and there is a cushion for your head. It is positioned so that when I lay down on my back, my head is closest to T... but T is directly behind me so I can't see him at all.

Of course T and I aren't in the same room every week. But every room is set up the same so that couch is in all of them. There are normally two comfortable-like chairs in each room and then "that couch" which is very separate.

Thanks for all of your responses.

Part of me is still left on that couch.

I think this is going to be a rough week to get through.

Thanks pink. I didn't know if that original style "couch" is always used or if sometimes just a regular couch is used nowadays, seeing as how so many things have changed over the years.

Do you think other anaylsts might use regular couches? I don't have a clue and am just wondering.

Good question. I have never been to another analyst so I don't know.. I do know that if I was set to set up a private practice (dreams and aspirations) that I would use the traditional style couch that my T uses. I feel like it's important to have something separate for "that" purpose. You know, like a regular sofa wouldn't indicate "that."

My first T was an analyst though I did not use the couch ... I stared at it. I did try it out for about 10 second once. It was a burgundy leather red analyst couch with a oriental carpet on it. Freudian .... Folks used to go 3-4 x a week back when analysis was more the norm.

Pink it does sound exhausting.

What will you address next week that seems to be touching you today?

I think that's a good idea to use a traditional analyst's couch for 'that'. It is distinct.

Where are you in your schooling? How much do you have to do to get where you want to go? ... if you don't mind my asking.

I agree..... There is something magical about that couch. I take my hat off to you Pink for taking the plunge.

I am not sure I worded my earlier post correctly but I know that many of us are using much analysis in our therapy and it is alive and well today.... My first pdoc expressed sadness that there was less of that modality being used but was pleased to give his couch to three young gentleman in practice when he retired.

Again... good for you. And yes Echoes...very distinct.

Hey you guys,

Regarding couches i found the following item of interest in a NY Times article:

Analyzing the Analyst's Couch

Article Tools Sponsored By
By MERYL GORDON
Published: March 19, 1992

BUYING a couch is an emotionally charged activity for most people; it's such a big item, for one thing, such a life-style totem.

But for a psychoanalyst, picking out the Freudian bed on which patients will reveal their fears, fantasies and free associations is more complicated. The couch plays such an important role that it appears to have a psyche of its own. Thus the analyst's choice of shape, color and style can prove very revealing.

"This is not just furniture," said Dr. Kerry Sulkowicz, a Manhattan psychiatrist who bought his "low-key" office couch of light gray wool four years ago. "This couch is central to your professional life and to your identity as an analyst

....As a not-so-subtle form of flattery, many new psychoanalysts buy the same couch their own analyst has. "It has to do with identifying with your analyst," Dr. Sulkowicz said.

If you want to read the whole article go to:

NY Times Article on Analyst's Couch

That is sooo coool.. thanks, Sister! Isn't it funny how I said that I would buy the same couch as my T? And it says it right there in the article!

The couches at the place where I go to therapy are ugly... I don't even know if they are leather.. maybe vinyl... brown... but they are very neutrally-ugly, lol.. not the type of couch that I would look at and say, "Ugh... that's ugly..." I mean, realistically it is ugly, as in, not the type of thing you'd pick out from a store or anything. But it's so neutral, it goes unnoticed as a piece of furniture, rather it is a symbol for all that could happen on that couch.

I like this part of the article:

"There is general agreement on at least one thing: a couch should not look too much like a bed."

"Enough erotic fantasies are going to come up anyhow," said Dr. Wayne Myers, a psychoanalyst and professor of psychiatry at New York Hospital-Cornell Medical Center. "You don't want to program the fantasies people have about the couch."

Hahahahahaha, now I'm imagining myself on a bed in Ts office with satin sheets... hahahaha

Now this part:

"His company no longer uses buttons as decoration, in recognition of the nervous habits of the analysands."

"The patients are edgy," Mr. Brafman said. "They pick at the buttons. There was a maintenance problem." Fringe trim is also considered a bad idea, since "the patients will just unravel it."

My God, if T's couch had buttons, they would have been ripped off in a second yesterday. I probably would have done something crazy, like eaten them or something, hahaha.

"A traditional psychoanalytic couch looks like a flat single bed with a built-in headrest."

Yes, this is exactly what the one in Ts room looks like.

I may print this article out for T. I really want to do some reseach on this whole couch phenomenon. I haven't done much research at all in the use of the couch. I basically only know what T told me... and now a bit from my own experience. With everything that happened yesterday I am now dying to do some in depth research into the role of the couch in analysis.

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ECHOES said:

Where are you in your schooling? How much do you have to do to get where you want to go? ... if you don't mind my asking.

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I'm in my last year... Next May I will graduate with my Master's Degree in clinical/counseling psychology.

In mid August, I will have all the pieces of my application submitted for doctoral school. If I get in, it will be an additional 5 to 7 years of schooling to become a clinical psychologist.

If I don't get in, then I will take the licensing exam to become a Master's level Licensed Professional Counselor. I will also be very distraught. So I'm hoping that I do get in because I won't do very well as a distraught therapist.

Either way, I do hope to be trained as an analyst and receive certification in that at some point. There are two wonderful psychoanalytical schools here in Philadelphia.

Thanks for asking.

Thank you for sharing this. Not many people have the opportunity to experience "true" psychoanalysis with the use of the couch and the analyst out of view. I felt like a fly on the wall!

I find it interesting that even though you slipped away to another time and had a different type of engagement with him, you are feeling the loss of him more in the time apart. Any thoughts on this? Is this why traditional psychoanalysis usually has the patient coming 4 or 5 days per week? Logically, one might think if a patient isn't looking at the analyst much and is lost mostly in the unconscious material, the therapist bond wouldn't be as strong, but it seemed to strengthen yours or at least make the absence more noticeable.

I'm curious now because I do therapy twice per week, and my T has said a couple of times that I would do better with a psychoanalytical approach with more sessions. I never asked why, but this makes me wonder. . .

Again, thanks for sharing!

Well this was the 1st time I ever used the couch. I have spent almost two years with him face-to-face. My attachment to him is very strong, and we focus a lot on the therapeutic relationship; specifically, the total connection I feel when I'm with him. So now that you bring it up, yeah... it was pretty interesting to have that couch experience after so long just experiencing him in the here-and-how. When I slipped into that time on the couch, and when I came out of it, I knew he was there. He kept reminding me that he was. So I believe it was the connection that allowed me to go there. To feel enough trust and safety to be able to experience that with him....

Here is an intense quote I just found while looking over journal articles...

"the patient who loves and desires her analyst has an opportunity in the present to grieve all that has been lost in the past, and all that can never be."

Wow, this couch thread is fascinating! Pink, your session sounds really intense, and quite a breakthrough. I know you have often written about avoiding the couch, and now you have done it. I think when we avoid something like that, it is, in some ways, really the thing we want to do or are drawn to, but are scared. I'm glad you have done it. It was intense, but you survived. The second time will be a little easier. For me, the big thing I avoided right from the start, in therapy, was bringing my husband with me. That came up in our very first session and I was very avoidant about the whole thing. Would change the subject, say no way, flit away from it (flight of thought), anything. Even if T talked about other couples he had worked with and never tried to link it to the idea of me and my husband seeing him together, I would totally be threatened by this talk and shy from it. Now that I am in couples therapy (well, actually we are done now for a well, maybe graduated?), looking back I see it was inevitable that I bring my husband to see T. I see that I worked toward that for months and didn't even know it. It is strange to look back and find purpose when there apparently was none when it was happening. I think back to ECHOES quote from RWE and yes, how true: "Quote: Always do what you are afraid to do. "

My T is not an analyst so does not have an analyst's couch. But he does borrow techniques from the psychodynamic world. And we certainly work with the unconscious. A lot. I like it. I don't consider what my T does to be either psychoanalysis or general counseling (to return to a question Gracey brought up). I think it is psychotherapy, and he uses whatever techniques I need. He is very eclectic. I do know there is at least one client that lies on one of his couches (he has two). I always just sit on one, but I have had longings to lie there, sometimes, for more of a comfort reason than anything else.

pink, I loved your poem, how not to cry in front of your analyst. I hope you will have a chance to discuss that one with your T as well as many others.

Gracey, your relationship with your T sounds a little like mine. We are very informal/laid back together.

pink, I'm thinking of you being 18 years old on that couch. In therapy, when I have regressed in therapy to an earlier time, in my childhood, T helped me come back to the present (when we were done) by doing this timeline thing. He would count forward from the age I was to my present day age, year by year. And with each number he said outloud, I would be that age, and get imagery and memories of that time in my head, until I was my presentday age. Forty years could just go WHOOOOSH! It's a very powerful experience. He had a name for this technique, but I forget what it is. It is really helpful to bring you back to the present so you can walk out T's door not feeling so disoriented and stuck in the past.

sister, that is a really interesting article on the Analyst's Couch. I think I would be one of the button-picker-offer types if I used that type of a couch.

Thank you pink. I admire you very much! I would love so much to go back to school. one of these days...

sunny, welcome back from vacation. missed you here!

funny comment about the buttons on the couch, sister. I am a fidgeter and would no doubt fidget with buttons. I try very hard not to do those fidgetty things while I'm there. I often have a piece of gum on the way and sometimes I forget to get rid of it and in mid-session I realize I'm chomping on it to beat the band, feel embarrassed, and grab a kleenex to put it in. Or, I have a zippered jacket with me because the bus and sometimes her room is chilly (ok, it's a security blanket..) and I'll realize... when she looks right at my hand.. that I'm neurotically going "zip" "unzip" "zip" "unzip" . lol.

Who? Ne? Mervous? nah

LOL, Echoes-- I play with whatever I have. I often wear long necklaces, so that provides for some good fidgeting while I'm sitting there. Sometimes I bring cofee so while talking, I will examine the lid of the cup as though it is the most interesting thing that in the world. Sometimes I will focus on the the corner of my shirt or something like it's a science experiment, lol. But there are lots of times when I look directly into T's eyes. You should have seen the time I had my little notebook and pen in my hands. I almost made a hole through the paper.