[SarahSweden]

My T and I have talked quite a bit about perfectionism and I realise part of my problems come from me not liking myself and being perfectionist about some things. Today my T mentioned things about narcissistic traits, she didn´t say I´m a narcissist but I feel she overinterpret things I do or say into diagnoses. Soon everything about me can be interpreted into something negative.

So here what I think I will be doing the next time I see her:

1. I´ll dress down significantly, all in black like black jeans and a black sweather. I have up until now always dressed neatly with brogue shoes, chinos, a nice sweather or shirt or similar.

2. I´ll get water in a mug to bring with me into the office before I meet with her. When I began seeing my T I mentioned to her that I liked that my former T always came with water and put beside me on the table before we started our meeting. Then my current T began to put a pitcher and mugs on her desk and since then I always have taken water there, in her office.

I plan to do all this as I feel she indirectly thinks me dressing nicely and wanting to be able to have some water in her office are signs of perfectionism, narcissism, self-exaltation and so on and by that I don´t want to do that anymore.

I know I just like to dress neatly, I also do that because I engage in therapy and felt my T was someone it was nice dressing up a bit for. But as that´s interpreted in to symptoms I don´t want to care anymore. It´s not neccessary to be offered water in her office as she doesn´t do that to be nice but instead she´s interpreting negative traits into me asking for water.

I also plan to continue dressing in the exact same clothes, just to act dumb as she doesn´t value things in a positive way. I don´t mean I don´t have problems, of course not but I feel she´s indirectly judging me for things that could be negative but also have something good in it.

I´ll never talk to her straight out about this, I want her to wonder why I do this and I have also engaged very seriously in therapy but she just seems to think "too seriously".

Do you think I should try this - dressing differently and stop having water in her office?

[Mully]

Why play games? Honestly, I wouldn't bother. It's one thing to try something different because you are genuinely curious about trying something different to see if it has any merit, but I guess I don't understand why you would try to engage in that way. If you don't agree with her idea, then don't change it.

Did she directly connect clothing and water to the discussion of perfectionism, or is this your interpretation? I don't understand what dressing differently and not asking for water will do for you. It just sounds like a test for your therapist of some sort. I may just not be understanding.

[Myrto]

Shouldn't you try to discuss this with her? I would tell her all this. I know I'd be annoyed if my therapist started to diagnose me based on some behaviours. What's wrong with being a perfectionist anyway? Would you rather be someone who half-asses everything? What's wrong with being put together? It is certainly not an indication of narcissism. Sorry if I'm not understanding you.

[Waterbear]

Honestly, no, I would suggest you talk to her about it.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. In a way my T is playing games or at least she isn´t honest about what she thinks of me as she talks in terms of different diagnoses connected to what I say and do. She puts most everything in a negative light and as "real" narcissistic clients often are seen as difficult and boring to treat I interpret her sayings about narcissistic traits into what she thinks of me.

I mean, she pinpoints the negative things in me and a lot more seldom she brings forward those things that are good in me, my positives. By that she´s judging me and why then should I continue act serious, talk with her seriously and so on?

Originally Posted by Mully

Why play games? Honestly, I wouldn't bother. It's one thing to try something different because you are genuinely curious about trying something different to see if it has any merit, but I guess I don't understand why you would try to engage in that way. If you don't agree with her idea, then don't change it.

[t0rtureds0ul]

I did something similar for something similar I doubt my ex T ever considered me a perfectionist, but for different reasons I think he read way too much in to the clothes I wore. I quickly developed a 'uniform' that i stuck to for .... I dont know - a year or so I think. A lot of the clothes I wore were centred on practicality- I really hated that he read **** in to clothes I wore because my skin was sensitive, I was bloated, had my period, had sore boobs, wanted to feel comfy on a long walk etc etc. I used to turn sessions in to a right big outing with long hard walks included - so a lot of what I wore was to deal with that. My uniform allowed me the comfort I needed without giving him the opportunity to read too much in to it.

I also always carried water with me on the long walk days, but I would hope he would have the sense to understand that was a necessity on those days and not read anything in to that!

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. No she didn´t but in earlier sessions we have talked about me liking to dress up and that I like nice manners like being offered water and that I´m careful about those things myself. As she really stresses the issue around perfectionism, how that is to me and I know I´m more strict about clothing than average I feel she isn´t putting it directly to me but she implies my clothing, among other things, is a symptom of my perfectionism.

As she doesn´t offer water just because she likes it and likes me why should I then take water in her office if all she sees is a sign of narcissistic traits?

As you say she´ll perhaps not understand exactly why but she´ll realise I have acted upon something she has done. As she doesn´t encourage what I do, by that I don´t mean we shouldn´t talk about my problems, why should I put energy into acting seriously about therapy? I just as myself those questions.

Originally Posted by lolagrace

Did she directly connect clothing and water to the discussion of perfectionism, or is this your interpretation? I don't understand what dressing differently and not asking for water will do for you. It just sounds like a test for your therapist of some sort. I may just not be understanding.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. No, I have been serious with therapy since I started with her and I have talked and talked and then mostly she sees something negative in what I tell her. I feel the more open I am, talking about issues in my everyday life and so on, the more she interprets into negative things.

I agree with her perfectionism is something to work on but not that all and everything can be interpreted as perfectionism, narcissistic traits or whatever as I feel she does.

Originally Posted by Myrto

Shouldn't you try to discuss this with her? I would tell her all this. I know I'd be annoyed if my therapist started to diagnose me based on some behaviours. What's wrong with being a perfectionist anyway? Would you rather be someone who half-asses everything? What's wrong with being put together? It is certainly not an indication of narcissism. Sorry if I'm not understanding you.

[AllHeart]

I personally would rather spend my therapy time directly addressing the issues at hand instead of going at it in a round about way like this, but, that's just me. If it's something you feel you need to do and something that will benefit you, then I hope it works out for you.

I dont quite see the point in playing mind games with your therapist.

[Salmon77]

It seems like you'd be dressing or acting differently in hopes of a reaction from her, so that you could communicate that you feel she judges you negatively, etc. I think it would be more effective to communicate this directly by saying it. In general, it sounds like you do a lot of interpreting and trying to guess at what your T thinks, and again, I think you would save some time and energy if you just asked her.

I can easily imagine you trying this gambit and feeling very upset if it doesn't work out as you hope.

Finally--my T says everyone has some narcissistic traits and it's not necessarily a bad thing. There is nothing wrong with dressing the way you want to dress. Trying to control other people is the problem.

[ruh roh]

A few things:

First, I think it was insensitive of her to use a term like narcissistic.

Second, did you ask her to explain her point or just assume that accepting water and dressing in chinos = narcissism? Because in my book, those are just normal things people do.

Third, I kind of think your idea to dress in black and bring your own water is just as perfectionistic as your adherence to unyeilding ideals.

This is good stuff for discussion. I would definitely talk more to your therapist about it.

[growlycat]

I would think it would be a respectful gesture to dress nicely for therapy. And sharing water seems like a nice expression of wanting to be closer. Your t has found a way to make these things twisted and ugly. It may speak way more about your t than you

Personally I would want to run the experiment to see t's reaction and interpretation

[atisketatasket]

What ruh roh said.

Why not work on perfectionism outside session? And not in how you dress. That would be a better use of your time and energy, it seems to me.

[unaluna]

Sometimes i bring my own water, sometimes i dont.

At first i was reluctant and embarrassed even to accept my ts offer of water. Now i often command him: "Agua!"

Your t accommodated your desire for water. Now it seems, you are afraid she analyzed your request negatively, and so you resent her for an unflattering analysis?

I would say, between our two ts, mine had the crazier client in terms of problems with water. You just asked for it, and got it, and took it, like a normal polite person.

Why do you think that doing the normal thing is wrong? Were your parents unusual or different in some way that made you stand out? Or that you had to hide something?

[Luce]

I guess one problem with doing what you are suggesting is that that in itself could represent any number of other things. Changing what you do to indirectly send a message or communicate something or get her to do something is manipulative, and manipulative behavior could be as much a part of narcissism (or something else like BPD) as perfectionism is.
Just do 'real' and 'you', man. Life is too precious to piss around playing games.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks everyone. I think I´m upset about that we still are problematizing and that my T after 9 months comes up with this "narcissistic trait hypothesis". It´s like she still is looking for something to treat and I feel it´s the wrong way of doing things.

Of course you have to know the issues and problems but then you have to leave this and go further, to instead find ways of solving the issues. Or am I expecting too much?