First T asked me what is the boundary that stops me from discussing sex with him. I said, "Ummmm, I'm looking at it right now."

So based on my brilliant statement from Friday and other things, we have obviously acknowledged the existence of erotic transference.

I was talking about how having those feelings and talking about them feels as though I am breaking boundaries.

Then T goes, "Okay in other instances when you have been attracted to someone, have you been afraid of breaking boundaries?"

Other instances?

Okay, so the word other completely implies that there is an existing instance, that being the one towards him.

I almost died.

Because he knows.

And he's right.

And he's so damn comfortable talking about it, acting as if there's nothing wrong with it, as if I'm not sitting there totally melting and stewing in my own humiliation.

[Rapunzel]

Wouldn't it be worse if he were obviously uncomfortable about it though? You're getting closer all the time.

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Rapunzel said:
Wouldn't it be worse if he were obviously uncomfortable about it though?

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Well....... yes. Of course it would be worse. But sometimes I honestly just want to smack him because I wish I could talk with as much ease as he does.

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You're getting closer all the time.

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Which is why it is so hard to feel so far away sometimes.

[Perna]

He's just got the upper position :-) and may be uncomfortable too but has had practice is all. You could do like one is taught to do when making speeches and are afraid, picture him naked? No? Guess not in this situation.

He talks about it with ease because you are not the first client with these feelings for him, and you will not be the last. Though to you they seem to be abnormal and boundary-crossing he on the other hand realizes they are perfectly normal and sometimes expected!

He has other clients?

(sorry, lol)

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Perna said:
He's just got the upper position :-) and may be uncomfortable too but has had practice is all. You could do like one is taught to do when making speeches and are afraid, picture him naked? No? Guess not in this situation.

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I'm playing count-the-innuendos here, lol

[Perna]

I think you should "practice" here, what sorts of things you would say/how you would bring them up. It's a fantasy/dream sort of discussion, not a whole lot different from what would happen if we went for a drive with our T's, or they came and stayed the weekend, etc.

Have you dreamed about your T and told him the dream? Talking about sex, even fantasies about him, can be like that; where are you located, is it just about "sex" or is there a whole action fantasy (like people thinking about "suicide" versus those with an actual plan), what are you wearing -- get at the symbolism rather than the "act" itself which is probably the whole point?

I once dreamed I was sucking my own breast and told my T the dream and she instantly understood it to mean I was trying to nourish myself (instead of letting anyone else/her help/feed me) and it was just so "right" and I wouldn't have thought of it in a million years because I was hung up on the embarrassing aspects of the image and having to tell her, etc. Treat anything embarrassing as the "fantasy" it is or as if it were a fantasy and attack it "intellectually"/third person.

have you thought about why you have the sexual fantasies (where they might be coming from)?

did he talk about that at all?

(part of that can be about hearing the details of the sexual fantasies. i'm sure it would be EXCRUCIATING to tell - i'd never tell mine, not in a million years - but they can give you a clue as to what the sexual transference is about...)

[Mouse_]

I told T on monday that I feel like I want to suck at her breast and instead all I'm getting is a bottle...that came out before i had time to think LOL...she replied that a bottle can be a good substitute pyschologically..then she asked me if I felt she had just fobbed me off? I said no but I need to think about this...I find talking in metaphors so much easier then saying "dam woman I feel so much love for you but am frustrated"

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alexandra_k said:
have you thought about why you have the sexual fantasies (where they might be coming from)?

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NO.

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did he talk about that at all?

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NO %#@&#! WAY-- HE KNOWS BETTER THAN THAT.

Well, I guess that sums it up, lol.

You see, I was at a complete loss for what to say. T asked me if it felt safe to talk about. I lied and said, "Sure, sure.... it's safe now... Ok. Let's talk about sex in analysis. What do I do first?" And I had no idea what to talk about anymore. That, along with the fact that he knew I was completely lying, did not get me very far.

He said that the way I feel in regards to talking about sex with him is like two porcupines touching. He said that they come really close, but then have to pull away because of their spikey things. He said it is the thing that makes us come closer, more connected-- but then the need to pull back because it hurts.

[wisewoman]

Oh Mouse you are brave. You clearly are mourning what you never got and I am sorry. It does get easier. You may feel like your therapist is a good mother person for you and you can't live without her. It all evolves and takes a lot of work. I felt that I would die so many times with this stuff. You are doing great and you are on the right track. Good luck.

[lauren_helene]

Pink, I was reading this book once, the name is escaping me but a therapist gave an account of erotic transference from a patient he was helping.

I almost died because she was so verbally graphic and descriptive about what she wanted to 'do' to this therapist. Let me think on the book title.

I read it and thought no way in $%#@$%^%$$#$%% would that ever be something I was say or even hint to T...

[Perna]

Ah, this is kind of interesting:

http://askdrrobert.dr-robert.com/erotic.html

[ECHOES]

Mouse!! My god you have guts!

I'm so glad someone else here has a female T! I don't know if I could ever say things I feel about her. It's very confusing or maybe just scarey, I don't know. But I know that it's not sexual, yet if I were to try to talk about it, I'm afraid it would come off that way. Nowhere near brave enough yet.

But I admire that you could say that for you!

[ECHOES]

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alexandra_k said:
have you thought about why you have the sexual fantasies (where they might be coming from)?



NO.

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at the caps on "no".

So... In theory... The idea is that if you figure out why you have the sexual fantasies then that can help you see them as understandable so that you don't feel so embarrassed / ashamed / whatever about having them. (In theory of course lol).

I've been really surprised at reading case studies of erotic (or eroticised) transference too. The things people say to their therapists! It is just that it can give you an idea of the dynamics behind the desire...

The porcupine analogy was pretty good... I guess your therapists take is that the sexual fantasies are about a desire for intimacy... But there is a fear of intimacy as well (hence the embarrassment).

I guess I was wondering... Whether the sexual fantasies were about intimacy... Or whether they were about control... Or quite what they were about. Trouble is that that depends a great deal on the content of the fantasies. But trouble is that damned if I'm going to share the content of the fantasies with my therapist lol. I haven't talked about sex much with him at all. Just to the extent that I told him that I told Mr Man that I'd need things to go slow... Then the next week t said something to the effect that he didn't think we were sleeping together... And I kind of said 'oh, that was last week' then I blushed and we both changed the subject (or I sure as hell did and he played along okay).

Lol

[dalila]

<font color="green">After I had a bad fight with my dh, I dreampt that I was living with my therapist as her lover.
Since we had been working on female on female sa I told her about the dream and how it started feeling wonderful but but quickly became gross and scary to me. She laughed and told me not to worry she was never going to have sex with me. Well I was glad to hear that but really embarrassed too cos I made eye contact and couldn't handle her compassion and humor.

Just one more time I wished I could crawl under the rug in her office. There is very little left that we can't talk about. I still can't get angry with her... don't have much of a reason to either. When it doesn't work we both know we can get back to it, and talk about where it went wrong.</font>

Wow the whole "I wish I could suck on her breast" comment has been on my mind a whole lot more then I want it to be! It has made me think of my own thoughts with my therapist and now that thought of being so secure and safe with her, and feeling small and so connected to her is an awesome thought. Now next time I think her all I'm going to be thinking about is her breast!