Victim.

This is an honest question. Its not directed at anyone. Its a sudden realisation I had today around my own stuff.

But what I want to know is what exactly does someone get from remaining a victim?

What does remaining a victim prevent one from being?

Is it a consious or unconsious defense mechinism?

Serious answers only.

For me, I think being a victim keeps me from having to face the hard work of confronting and working something through. If I'm a victim, it's not my "fault" so I can't do anything about it and have no responsibility.

However, after reading this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Napkin-Notes...dp/0960255206/ I find it almost "impossible" to maintain a victim mentality. I think one can be a victim either consciously or unconsciously but I think there is always something largely unconscious about it as can be seen by the vehemence some people use to "protect" that status. People shouting about their "rights" or maintaining their victimhood instead of trying to work with it and get "past" them (which is very engrossing so one doesn't have as much "time"/energy for the surface "Hear me, I'm a victim" speeches) methinks protest too much?

Perna, *gulp* Me thinks your spot on.

I believe it is one of the many things that fall into that space between the conscious and unconscious. Like self-sabatoge.

Yes I agree Pinksoil, I think I am coming to a place where I am willing to allow some of this into my consciousness.

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I find it almost "impossible" to maintain a victim mentality.

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I'm kind of the same way. I hate being thought of as a victim and I do not see myself that way. It took me ages in therapy before I could use the a-b-u-s-e word as I thought that by saying that word, it meant I was assuming a role as a victim, and I HATE that. I still struggle with the word abuse regarding what I experienced, although I know on some level it is true. When T says the word "abuse", I cringe. I am not a victim. He has explained that just because I admit to being abused, doesn't mean I am a victim. I have a hard time with that distinction. I applaud those who try to move forward from the victim self view. I think it is an important step.

I believe thinking of oneself as a victim probably has both conscious and unconscious aspects. Maybe it starts as conscious, and then becomes so much a part of one's ethos, that it gets internalized into the unconscious.

Hey, sunrise, I was thinking about that very subject, "abuse" versus "victim" and you can do something about your abuse, heal from it, grapple with it, etc. but a victim can't "do" anything by virtue of the definition! I think "victim" is a bit insidious as a way to define one's self because "abuse" happens to us, it isn't "us" whereas one identifies with being a victim.

Mouse,

I believe that there are different "things" that people get from identifying themselves as victims.

In the same vein there are different views/definitions of the word "victim."

If we have been abused it is important to acknowledge that abuse so we can integrate that experience into our personality. That makes us a victim during some part of the process.

However, once integrated we can move beyond that experience, knowing that victim is only a small part of who we are. I think that sometimes the experiences are so overwhelming/frequent, or intense that it's difficult for people to see the other parts of themselves and so they wind up defining themselves by this one part of their experience. This can be particularly true if that definition brings some much-needed attention and care.

Whew.

Take gentle care.

hiding behind the victim label means that you are saying that crap stuff has happened and that is why my life is crap and it is not my fault and certain behaviours become socially acceptable. Just like people take up a sick role when in hospital where it is acceptable to have others do things for you.
It is just an excuse to blame everything on someone else.
Yes, the stuff that happened may have in no way been your fault but how you decide to live afterwards is TOTALLY your choice.

I also think some people are scared to give up their labels and associated behaviors. They have been known as a 'victim' that is their identity. If you aren't a victim anymore, what is left?? Will people stop paying you attention if you are coping really well?

Thought-provoking question, Mouse....

Way back in the initial stage of my therapy journey I felt I was a victim. I truly had been a victim of abuse and such. I needed to feel victimized if I was to move through the process of mourning and grieving.
Had I not felt victimized, how would I be able to grieve? To feel I had been hurt and feel sad and cry about it? To express my yearning for the pain to have never happened? Y'know, all that kind of stuff that happens in good therapy...

I think I saw myself as a victim because I WAS a victim at a younger age...and still hadn't purged all the emotional stuff that a victim stores inside....

For me it was necessary to recognize I had been a victim and thus be able to go through the mourning process. Of rage, sadness, and eventual acceptance.

Your question seems to insinuate that one is viewing her/him self as a victim when in reality he/she is NOT a victim. Because you ask, what does someone get from remaining a victim. I think their need to mourn and grieve and BE HEARD and believed has not yet been met. Once that need has been satisfied, the person is able to exit victim mode.

Just my thinking mind's thoughts on being a victim, or on viewing oneself as a victim.

I think everything that has been said here makes sense to me.

Withit, I particularly like the way you explained it.

This is one of those discussions that always makes me uncomfortable. I'm working hard to accept what happened to me as a kid. That means I have to accept being a victim. My T says I was a victim -- by definition. I was overpowered and hurt. But my group T says I'm a survivor. I hate both words -- victim and survivor. I just want to be me.

I think withit was right on about needing to allow yourself to be a victim in order to feel it, grieve it and then place it where it belongs, in your history. I think people do keep repeating things that haven't been worked through. So maybe they aren't consciously getting anything out of being a "victim" --- perhaps they aren't manipulating anything or anyone with intention. Maybe they are just hurting.

my t said that i was a victim then... but i'm not a victim now. or that i certainly don't have to be. i agree with flowerb that i don't really want the labels, i just want to be me.

that being said i do think that there are things that i do in the here and now that result from my having been a victim. sometimes i get into this real 'please don't hurt me' space and people pick up on it and realise that i'm vulnerable. i need more reassurance than most. i need more kind words than most. i need people to be gentler with criticism than most. all of this requires people to go out of their way (more so than for other people) in order to make me feel comfortable.

i'm trying to work on having more inner strength and doing things that i'm afraid of but it is harder. sometimes i feel like a victim because i feel powerless and fragile and like i'm about to be attacked. part of it is looking around in the here and now and realise that the present is different from the past. i'm not a victim anymore.

Perna, Perna, that book arrived this morning.

It's got a weird beginning. Made me want to throw it across the room before I'd finished reading the first page! I didn't "get it" (the initial "story"), thought it was lame and was very disappointed :-) I still use the "middle" section though about reading and stepping off the curb and getting hit by a truck :-)