[growlycat]

In therapy with Kashi today he mentioned that he found it odd that I see myself as mentally ill (odd is my word not his). He says that I identify as mentally ill when in his words "you are well put together, you just have anxiety like 25% of the population. " He said that once upon a time I may have been ill but I got better. If I have a cold and got better then got another cold would I identify as someone who always has a cold? He wants me to move towards a wellness mindset.

Do you think of yourself as mentally ill? Do you see your issues as being transitory ? I struggle with this idea but thoughts welcome.

I see myself as mentally ill. I have had anxiety impairing my life for as long as I can remember down to my earliest memories. My parents never sought help for my siblings too, and resisted concerned relatives who worried a sibling had autism.

As teenagers, when myself and a sibling was suicidal, we were refused help.

I always thought I was just flawed. Getting the psychiatric diagnoses helped me realize I am ill. A very long illness, yes.

In my country, stigma is high. They still see psych hospital as the loony bin and that we're unable to function. Despite being a collectivist Asian country, unlike physical disabilities or persons with special needs, persons with mental health struggles are shamed and dismissed and mocked. We're trying to gain acceptance by likening mental illness to physical illness because two thirds meeting diagnostic criteria don't seek help and those who do spend at least a decade struggling before seeking help.

I'm so called "high functioning" because I work a regular full time job without any formal accommodations which defies the stereotype in my country though I believe there's many like me. This does not mean that I am stronger or better than others, just that I "pass" in this ableist society.

I cling onto identifying myself as mentally ill because it's a way I fight self stigma and societal stigma for myself. Because it reminds me I am unwell, not I am bad. That I can heal and recover and cope better.

[satsuma]

This is interesting. My T has similar thoughts on this subject. He doesn't think that framing problems as "mental illness" is necessarily helpful.
My T gave the example of a publicity campaign here in the U.K. Called "1 in 4", which is about de-stigmatising mental illness and making it accepts to talk about - it says that 1 in 4 people will experience mental illness at some point in their life. But my T was saying that 1 in 4 works as a publicity campaign and is a number people can get their head around, but a colleague of T who works researching this kind of thing says the real figure should be 1 in 1 i.e. everyone. T explained they mean that experiencing anxiety, depression, some obsessions, and other things, are all part of the human condition, that everything is on a spectrum, and when a certain issue gets quite far down the spectrum to the point that it is having a serious impact on someone's quality of life over a period of time then that is when we would label it as "mental illness".
Obviously it's a complex topic, but I do find this approach helpful in how it helps to "normalise" things and reduce stigma. I like thinking of the 1 in 1 figure, because I have had colleagues in the past who had a mind of macho attitude and claimed that they NEVER got physically ill - clearly, they were partly lucky and healthy individuals, but it was always clear to me that they were human beings and not comic-strip super-heros: if you are human, you can catch viruses etc. , to claim otherwise is just silly and it's a kind of macho posturing. I find it helpful to see things the same way when it comes to mental health.

[rainboots87]

I don't identify with the label "mentally ill." It just doesn't have the right connotation to me. I struggle with anxiety, dysthymia, episodes of major depression, and previously an eating disorder. There is a family history of similar issues including bipolar and schizophrenia. Maybe I just still feel a stigma about that term, but I personally choose not to apply it to myself.

As much as I'd like to get past this stuff, considering I've been in therapy off and on the past 10 years and my family history, I assume I'll need therapy and/or meds throughout most of my life.

[satsuma]

[QUOTE=QuietMind;5560904]I see myself as mentally ill. I have had anxiety impairing my life for as long as I can remember down to my earliest memories. My parents never sought help for my siblings too, and resisted concerned relatives who worried a sibling had autism.

As teenagers, when myself and a sibling was suicidal, we were refused help.


In my country, stigma is high. They still see psych hospital as the loony bin and that we're unable to function. Despite being a collectivist Asian country, unlike physical disabilities or persons with special needs, persons with mental health struggles are shamed and dismissed and mocked. We're trying to gain acceptance by likening mental illness to physical illness because two thirds meeting diagnostic criteria don't seek help and those who do spend at least a decade struggling before seeking help.

----
In my opinion, people mock and label others, calling the hospital the "loony bin" etc. out of fear. They are trying to reassure themselves that they are a completely different KIND of person, and it could never happen to them, because they are not "loony" or whatever.
Ironically this defensive attitude is an unhealthy one - while accepting mental illness, weakness, problems etc. and that it's ok to speak about them is actually
a sign of good mental health!

Originally Posted by growlycat

In therapy with Kashi today he mentioned that he found it odd that I see myself as mentally ill (odd is my word not his). He says that I identify as mentally ill when in his words "you are well put together, you just have anxiety like 25% of the population. " He said that once upon a time I may have been ill but I got better. If I have a cold and got better then got another cold would I identify as someone who always has a cold? He wants me to move towards a wellness mindset.

Do you think of yourself as mentally ill? Do you see your issues as being transitory ? I struggle with this idea but thoughts welcome.

Great question! No, not at all. Was Kashi talking with my threapist recently?

I was just talking with my therapist about this last week, how my last therapist said positive things about me from time to time, which helped my sense of self improve and mature. I explained to him how this happened using an example of a conversation with a former psychiatrist/long-term therapist about my feelings about this. This was a few years ago-one of my feelings of insecurity was having a mental illness, feeling "ruined" etc. We may have been discussing feelings around dating or work, i don't remember.

In response to this, my psychiatrist said "Skies-you know, I have never even thought of you as someone who has a mental illness. Now after working with you for a couple of years, having learned a great deal about you, I still don't consider you as someone who is 'mentally ill'". It made me feel good because he was genuine and sincere, and I looked up to him; as a mentor and paternal figure. Such a small gesture made a difference for me-it changed my view of myself. It just never crossed my mind to think of myself like he did.

And I have/had panic disorder, dysthymia, MDD, ADHD, Bipolar II, PTSD, C-PTSD, DID, GAD...I had all of these and maybe a couple of more when this psychiatrist told me this. I have had numerous worries that i was getting schizophrenia.

But I don't think of it transitory either since I've never been hospitalized. The only way i'd consider myself to be mentally ill is if I couldn't function, like if I couldn't work, couldn't live independently, or needed a guardian.

Then again I wouldn't want to minimize these can be disabling or semi-disabling health conditions-so that leaves me in a place of conflict. I really think most of them should be classified as neurological diagnosis anyway. There, that would solve my conflict.

How do you struggle with this idea? I can think of possiblities but am interested in yours.

[growlycat]

I struggle with the idea of being well because inwardly something seems broken. Outwardly I can fake it. I keep thinking that Kashi just doesn't know me well enough yet. Also, he got a tiny bit defensive because he had struggled with depression in the past and he has accomplished a lot. I struggle because I don't feel like my coworkers struggle with the same issues Maybe they do and hide it well also? I trust Kashi and his process so I'm open to thinking about myself differently

Ahh. That's a conflict too-inwardly broken outwardly smiling, pretending. It's like in business, when an organization's operations/behaviors/policies don't match it's vision, mission, and values. It results in lack of credibility. Translating credibility in the context of business to a context with a person = you don't believe in yourself? And if you don't believe in yourself, why should Kashi? Now HE must be the fake one...

I was just talking about this to my sister today. Having these issues makes me feel alienated as someone with a horrible childhood (the cause) rather than the effect. And how I feel, what I do, etc.; my limitations, how much i can/can't enjoy life, how much i missed out on, all the wrong decisions made--but that is a ton of Grief. But i don't think of it as MI. I do know the majority of people I work with don't have MI. Writing this out-it sounds rather contradictory. To mitigate that, one thing to remember is the personality aspect of it-i think more than half of people have dsyfunction there; yet, those would never be labeled with a MI. So would a ton of people who abused others. They don't get treatment so they don't get a diagnsosis. So-do those groups without a diagnosis not have a mental illness but you and I do? See how that doesn't work. That's why I think of myself as a childhood trauma survivor rather than mental illness, regardless of the diagnosis.

I'm posting on Ambien so I hope that makes sense. Not sure why it makes me awake now instead of letting me sleep.

[satsuma]

I also see myself as a "childhood trauma survivor" as Skies has said.
I understand what you are saying Growly about co-workers not having the same struggles. Sometimes I have said to T "other people don't find X really difficult like I do" and T says "Well maybe not, but maybe they have not been through the experiences that you have been through".
I don't think there's necessarily a right or wrong answer about whether something should be called a mental illness. The situation is still the same regardless of how it is defined or labelled. I think Ts are looking at whether or not the label of mental illness is meaningful or helpful for someone.
For me, I struggled with low self esteem and feeling fundamentally flawed and different from other people, and that's why it's helpful to me to realise that the things I struggle with are completely normal and understandable given the circumstances.

[Wounded Soul 74]

I was thinking about this other day, how the MH system actually encourages a view of yourself that is "disordered" or "other" and then you start self stigmatizing which just compounds the anxiety and low self esteem. I do have emotional issues, anxiety, low self-esteem, and PTSD and this has definitely caused alot of problems in my life but I hate thinking of myself as mentally ill or that I don't think the way other so called "normal" people do , what's normal supposed to be anyway? But if you choose to reject the mental illness label then you can be diagnosed with "Anosognosia" which is a mental illness that causes people to be in denial of their mental illness.

I wish we could just except were all human beings struggling through our own problems, no one has a perfect life and some people are just better at hiding their issues than others. I used to wonder what my therapists issues were, I was being funny one day and asked her how do I know you don't go home, eat your boogers and finger paint with your poop? She looks at like me "what?"

[SummerTime12]

I think it would be difficult for me to outwardly say "I'm mentally ill" because of the stigma attached to it. A lot of people think mentally ill means being unable to function and relate to others, when in reality that describes a small fraction of people who have mental illnesses. The term was used very negatively in the past, so I think it's just hard to say it without thinking of those negative connotations and allowing them to influence my feelings toward it. If I think about what the term 'mentally ill' actual means though - just a disease that affects the brain - I don't feel at all ashamed or disempowered using it and identifying with it. I also don't think of it as transitory because I think the actual root of the illness is always there (in my case a chemical imbalance along with trauma), but the symptoms (anxiety, depression, ED behaviors, OCD thoughts) aren't ALWAYS present. I don't know why this example came to mind, but I see it sort of like how someone with asthma only has symptoms some of the time, but that doesn't mean they stop having asthma just because they're ok at that moment.. they would still say 'yes I have asthma' if asked.

[retro_chic]

I see myself as neurotic and "damaged" and it is very difficult for me to get out of that mindset. I'm not sure but I think my T would have a similar perspective as yours. I know she doesn't believe in labels and she also views my behaviours/feelings etc. as "information" about me rather than good or bad. I can't seem to view things that way... at least not yet.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My T reminds me that I'm not my mental illness, but rather I have a mental illness. And when I'm suicidal, she wants me to remind myself that it's just chemicals in my brain, and that I actually have a really good life. It helps me to separate the two, so I can remember that the bad times will pass; that there's still good.

I work in a mental health/psychiatry-related profession so for me diagnoses do not carry personal discomfort but help define and name a phenomenon we are dealing with. Of course the mental health categories are often not as clear and steady as the diagnoses of most co-called physical illnesses, but I find them helpful also when they are applied to me, they help target a specific area of issues and can guide in problem solving. What I don't find too useful is generic statements such as someone is "mentally ill"... I think it's far too diffuse and not meaningful by itself, just like saying someone has a medical illness - too broad and it does not say anything about the nature of the problem, severity, whether it's something chronic and stable or transient, etc.

In spite of the above opinion, I do often use the term "mental illnesses" when I describe what I think the origin of most of my issues is: family heritage. Both lineages of my family have been packed with various mental health issues (psychotic disorders, depression, anxiety, addictions, to name a few), predispositions clearly run in these lineages (a great spectrum in terms of nature of problems and severity) and I believe it's what caused my challenges as well more than anything else (eg. I had a decent family of origin and no significant traumas in childhood other than some bullying from other kids). I've had eating disorders, substance addiction, depression, anxiety and am considered by most people who know me well a very unconventional person with thought and behavioral patterns that are different in many ways and cannot be easily categorized or linked to specific causes. From all this, only the anxiety and the unconventionality seem permanently present, these I've had as far as I remember but they have never been debilitating and my anxiety can be controlled quite well with drug-free approaches. The substance addiction (drinking) is what caused me the most trouble and when I was active in it, it brought out a ton of issues so that I really often felt like a walking psych ward and did not feel highly functioning at all even though my environment knew nothing about it. There were periods in that when I was intensely suicidal everyday, to the point it became sort of my normal and did not even register much anymore. Luckily, it's something that can be very successfully resolved by complete abstinence and while a lot of people like the concept of being "in recovery" for the rest of our lives, I don't like to see myself that way except the fact that abstinence for me will have to be life-long, which I don't mind at all at this point (of course it was extremely difficult initially).

So, in summary, I do find naming the issues helpful but I do not consider myself more mentally challenged than the average person, and I have a pretty good and fulfilling life without meds and constant professional care/treatment. I think it's best to follow the strategy that works for everyone to promote health and healing in a holistic way, i.e. if someone is bothered with mental health diagnoses and if the problem can be controlled with meds, therapy or whatever, it's probably better to move on than feeling damaged or flawed forever. On the other hand, if someone clearly has problems functioning but is in denial about the nature and severity of the problem, and perhaps how their issues affect others around, I think it can be helpful to put a name to it and raise awareness accordingly.

[Favorite Jeans]

This is such a good question, thank you!

I guess I think of myself as having mental illness in remission. I have previously thought of it along the lines of having had a cold but (for me anyway) it's not a good analogy. Everyone gets colds, some often, some less often. It doesn't usually have such a large impact as to affect your identity and is only life threatening under rare circumstances. Mental illness on the other hand...

If I don't think of myself as having a chronic condition when it is in remission, I stop treating it and then shortly after that, well, it's no longer in remission. I have relapsed within 3-6 months every single time I've stopped my meds (and once when I reduced the dose) over the last 15 years or so. Therapy has been quite helpful in many ways, I am more aware of my mental state and more mindful that I am not my feelings. Therapy is helping me live a happier, healthier life but I suspect I'll always need meds.

I have also been exploring a wellness mindset mainly by developing friendships and support networks but also by prioritizing things that give me joy and addressing my other main health problem. I've shifted from working to make life bearable to working to make life good or even great. The wellness mindset and the illness mindset are not necessarily mutually exclusive; you can aim to thrive (rather than merely survive) even with an awareness of your condition—if that paradigm makes sense to you.

Not anymore. And even when I was quite ill, I didn't think of myself as "mentally ill;" I thought that I was dealing with a mental illness. It's a subtle difference, but an important one for me. Calling myself "mentally ill" would be describe my being; a mental illness is a condition I have to deal with.

I'm glad I very consciously chose to address my illness that way. I also say I "have" bipolar disorder rather than I "am" bipolar for the same reason. I think because I was able to have enough times of stability between episodes, I was able to do that. I completely realize there are others who rarely see moments of stability and really do feel comfortable saying "I am bipolar." I respect a person's decision to use either language because everyone experiences these things very individually.

Now that I have gone into a very long remission (with hopes for no return of symptoms), I am even more relieved that I made the language choice I did for myself. I struggled a lot with feeling broken just from the level of CSA I endured alone and it took me decades to see myself as whole. I didn't need more baggage of brokenness on top of that.

[Myrto]

I don't consider myself mentally ill. I struggle with depression and anxiety yes but I reject the "mental illness" label. Perhaps because of the stigma attached to it, perhaps also because I'm high functioning and most people in my life don't even know I'm depressed. That is why I intensely dislike the term "patient" that therapists use and prefer the term "client", I find it empowering.

I struggle with Complex-PTSD, just the same as I struggle with arthritis and sacroiliac joint dysfunction!

Putting it into this context empowers me! ... Of course, early on I was like OMG!, I'm defective!

But after 23.5 years of hard work, I no longer see myself that way!



I will continue to fight the good fight!

I may have these conditions, but they don't have me!

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by growlycat

Do you think of yourself as mentally ill? Do you see your issues as being transitory ? I struggle with this idea but thoughts welcome.

I think my therapist's approach is similar to your Kashi in that she has said she doesn't see what I deal with as illness, even though it can be pretty extreme under pressure or from triggers (DID) and I will always have to deal with it. She is just more strengths based so doesn't see a benefit in identifying with an illness. It's more that these are symptoms that developed from early life experiences, and not something genetic and maybe that's the difference?

I had a therapist who did see me as having a MI and it was awful. She flat out said, You are very ill. And it was the session she terminated, referring me to someone else (as in, giving me their name, but that was it). It was soul-crushing and I will never forget how that felt. I prefer my therapist's approach, no question.

As far as it being transitory, I can see that being true in my case. The symptoms (depression, anxiety, dissociation) are less problematic when the triggers are identified and I learn to respond. So in that way, it's transitory, BUT, I will always have to do this to some extent so in that way it's not.

I guess I don't really have an answer, except that I tend to agree with Kashi's line of thinking.

I just realized that I have never used the term "mental illness" when discussing my conditions with friends, coworkers, or aquaintences. Instead, I say dealing with "depression", "PTSD" etc.

Telling people you are "mentally ill" OTOH can have really negative impact as that is often how mass shooters are labeled on the news. It's just a stupid phrase, but it does paint a different picture.

I suppose mindset is different than communicating to others, but just adding this afterthought.

Originally Posted by Skies

Telling people you are "mentally ill" OTOH can have really negative impact as that is often how mass shooters are labeled on the news. It's just a stupid phrase, but it does paint a different picture.

I very much agree with this. And more, I think the same can apply internally: our sense of self is really affected by what we tell ourselves. Of course it's important to be honest in front of ourselves, but too much self-deprecation can be just as damaging as external stigmas, if not more. I think it's worth learning how to stop negative internal talk and I believe this is what some therapists are trying to promote when they discourage labeling people with stigmatizing terms.

[Hedocakes]

Mental illnesses are usually lifelong or at least very long term issues. My ADHD and PTSD are permanent fixtures in my life, even if I am managing both quite well. Yes, I am going to identify as a person with mental illness.

[Rizzar]

Mental health is defined as a state of well-being in which every individual realizes his or her own potential, can cope with the normal stresses of life, can work productively and fruitfully, and is able to make a contribution to her or his community. WHO | Mental health: a state of well-being

Empiricism is the key for me. For extended periods of my life, a state of well-being has eluded me.

Originally Posted by Hedocakes

Mental illnesses are usually lifelong or at least very long term issues. My ADHD and PTSD are permanent fixtures in my life, even if I am managing both quite well. Yes, I am going to identify as a person with mental illness.

While there are some mental health issues that are lifelong, many mental illnesses can be recovered from or at least greatly managed so that they don't impair quality of life.

I have been diagnosed with PTSD and bipolar disorder, both considered "lifelong," yet I am free from symptoms and have been for several years. Am I cured? Probably technically not; I'm more likely in what is considered remission. But these periods of years asymptomatic show me that these diagnoses are not "lifelong;" I consider them in at least partial remission. They are having absolutely no impact on my life at the present, have not for several years, and hopefully for years to come.

If I had cancer and went over 5 years without any recurrence, many doctors would declare me "cured." True, that doesn't mean there is a guarantee that there won't be a recurrence of the cancer; there is no way to be sure every cancer cell is gone, but the chances are much improved once a cancer patient gets past that 5 year mark.

Why can't those with mental illness fit that same criteria? Why does mental illness have to carry a "lifelong" sentence if the person is no longer impeded by the symptoms of said illness, particularly after a significant period of time without need for any form of treatment?

[subtle lights]

When I'd been feeling better I wouldn't have thought about myself in these terms. But on the other hand I have never been fully "mentally healthy", in my view. I've always been kind of neurotic (I hate this term but don't know a better one now), always sort of inclined towards depression since my teens. My favourite word was "frustration" when I was about 12 and my favourite poet was thought to have had BPD. So yeah...

Later in my early 20s I've been told by my T from back then that she believes I have BPD. That was scary to hear but in the same time being "labeled" felt like a relief, I felt that I'm not just horribly bad at living life and adapting normally, or just not trying hard enough to be happy, but that there is actually something that describes my issues, that explains them somewhat, and I'm not alone.

Later I tried to disidentify from the label of mental illness, because I felt that I don't need it anymore and it felt limiting. Now, I feel I need it again.

My current therapist is not into labeling (I think, just barely started), but I feel like labeling would have some advantages. It's frustrating to be expected to be "healthy" when I feel unable to live.