The truth about "transference"?

So-called "transference" projections are said to manifest in therapy because the therapist is a blank slate, they possess special qualities like a rare sort of empathy, therapy is a "safe space", and so on.

But isn't this the real reason...

"The reason for the potency of the therapeutic transference is precisely in that withdrawal of the therapist: it is because their contribution to the therapeutic space is so fraudulent that the need arises to imagine, to fantasize about what the therapist would be like in a more real, or more desirable state of affairs."

If a relationship has artifice at the center of it then, logically, whatever feelings arise from it are liable to be at least partly false and invalid, maybe mostly so. Is the client supposed to overlook this and pretend they are having an authentic interaction that models real life? Are therapy consumers to believe that a fake relationship is the basis for healing real relationships? Why does everyone accept this so uncritically?

ps: I'd like to hear other thoughts on debunking transference myths and hype.

Some transference interpretations have occasionally struck me as a bit like chasing zebras when the horse will do. I mean, does liking the therapist really have to be chaulked up to anything other than the fact that it's nice to have someone listen uncritically?

Dunno. I'm no expert. Just a question I think about sometimes.

I'm caught in the middle of a weird transference/counter-transference dynamic happening with my t. We're currently taking a month off from each other. Or longer. Or forever. I don't know yet. She's been this "good-enough mother" for me for a long time.... in that way the transference worked like it is "supposed to". BUT! The flip side of that - she recently admitted to a not-so-perfect relationship with her own mother who is no longer living, which I think figures into her counter-transference, and also sometimes she will say something (it's been very rare) that 'sounds' just like my mother and boom negative transference and I am triggered and I go off on her. Like happened not long ago. Hence the taking a month (or forever) off because even though we talked through the blow up, we never quite got back on the same page and I don't think we ever will. All's I know is it Sucks with a capital "S".

Dunno, but the transference construct completely dominates discourse among clients, among therapists, and between therapist and client.

Someone posted a link to an 85pg paper recently on transference and related matters. It included references to something called "malignant eroticized transference". I s**t you not. The profession shovels out mounds of this stuff constantly.

You mean that paper that you didn't read.

You literally just saw some words and decided that was enough. Pretty much sums up your approach to the whole thing.

I read the paper. I cannot believe the crap they spew out.

My therapist doesn't really do transference. He's not a blank slate, is all into authenticity and transparency and genuineness. I am glad of this.

He's also not of the belief that "it's the relationship that heals" - he doesn't think that's enough. My therapy is much more about helping me figure out what I can do to build up my resources to help myself. I like this- it's super straightforward.

I wonder how many therapists are like him? I think some of the newer forms of therapy don't use transference as much.

My T sounds more like yours than others'. You know, I don't know if transference is a thing because T's talk about it, or if T's talk about transference because it's a thing. If that makes any sense.

Porque no los dos, I guess...

I am sure it's a thing because therapists talk about it. It is in my opinion one of the ways they keep clients on the hook (resolve your transference!), along with the relationship heals stuff.

But, that may just be me being bitter late on a Saturday night.

In fairness, none of my therapists have mentioned either of those concepts. They may believe them, but at least they don't yammer about them.

I think it's very real-it sort of shows who you are if you were in a room of mirrors that not only reflected back what you looked like, but reflected back all your inner mental content, which allows you to step back, observe and learn about yourself--how you are influenced by others (transference) rather than how you are influenced by your own values, preferences, characteristics, spirit, dreams, fantasizes (true self). It's your real feelings discerned by 1. those ingrained parts of yourself rooted in early relationships (transference) and 2. those feelings that are more about who you are sans relationships (true self). When you can untangle the transference from who you are you get to know yourself better and how you've been influenced by others during development through present. And you uncover a heck of alot that you'd like to change.

That's oversimplifying it, and obviously you are who you are with transference and all, but if you take away others' influences on you, you can become your true self. I think this is where this type of therapy can go wrong-what you learn is that as a child you were hurt, discard, abused, objectified, uncared for, unloved, and how ugly and unworthy you feel about yourself. Now what? Your left with anger about ending up that way because of your parents, self hate because you internalized your parents as that is part of childhood development, and low self worth because of how you were treated--what do you do next? How to move from that place to a healthier sense of self? Or do you get stuck in that place and now have to live with that the rest of your life because now you were stripped down to your core. This refers to severe abuse, neglect, etc, rather than other cases. It's like you have to unlearn it all but how? That is you underneath what was there before you started therapy. How do you build up a new, stronger, more positive self? My T said he doesn't do therapy like that. How would I do it myself?

The kind of therapy you are talking about is psychoanalytic, though there are multiple ways to do that type of therapy. It's an authentic interaction from your side of the room/the couch only. The therapist is being an authentic therapist rather than an authentic person, partner, healer, etc.

The feelings aren't false; merely they are separated, magnified, analyzed, etc.

I accept it as a means to an end, but not within the context you placed it. Other therapies that don't practice blank slate, will be more authentic by your definition. Psychoanalytic therapies don't usually claim to heal and nurture and all of that type of stuff usually discussed here on this forum.

I went on Jeffrey Smith's site (is that his name) and I read so many stories for active therapy clients who have been in pain for yearssssssss. Yearssssss. "I've been going to my therapist for 8 years and it's so painful," doesn't sound like healing to me.

The posts are by far all the same, although there are few people who are on the precipice of resolving whatever they have going on.

Personally, I kinda don't get it.

My case is that I go to strip clubs because I'm a feminine gay woman and I have trouble w/accepting my sexuality and looking at women in real life. So, I get dances from a stripper that allows me physical contact and slowly, come out of my shell. I, however, made the mistake of getting attached to this dancer. I understood that the relationship was over when I stopped paying, but I still couldn't help feel something more for someone I didn't even know. When I told my regular therapist this, she said, "Well, lets work on detaching, not attaching, because this isn't something that is realistic. It's fantasy while allowing you to get in touch with your sexuality." And so on...

So with the stripper, I'm supposed to detach. It's a transaction and I shouldn't be tied to it emotionally as nothing can come of it and I don't even really KNOW this person.

Yet, when I told my T about my attachment to her, she encouraged it. Why? Nothing can come of it. Naturally, I want more and she can't offer it to me, even if she wanted to. Our relationship ends when the transaction is over. There's a time limit, just like with the stripper.

So one relationship is discouraged and the other is encouraged?

All it caused me was pain and that's on top of the fact that she didn't get it. I recently caught her in a lie when she said she was going out of town that same night because of a death in the family and wouldn't be in town for my session the next morning, and there she was, in town the next morning as I pulled out of a gas station. I can't begin to tell you how betrayed I felt. But how little did she feel? I looked forward to my appointments, while I was nothing but an appointment to reschedule so she could have a 3 day weekend.

That therapist who wrote that "Attached to your therapist" book does say that when the client goes inward, it's probably a lost cause because the "inner child has gone underground." That's the only time he discourages detachment...but for the life of me, I haven't found many good stories in comparison to the bad ones.

Glad they didn't yammer about them, at least. I think you're right that (at least sometimes) it's a thing because therapists talk about it. I wonder though, how much keeping clients on the hook is a thing. I mean, I'm sure it's a thing sometimes - but how much? How often?

Seems to me (and I could have a filter bias, here) that people here have the opposite problem - T's trying to push clients away, be less available. I read comparatively fewer posts about T's wanting to keep clients coming in.

Unless you meant 'on the hook' as in responsible. As in, 'this is your problem, client, not mine. Because transference.' That makes sense to me.

I've read some of Smith's blogs. I agree with him on some things, but I think the whole concept how he portrays it is very idealized/romantacized. One blog entry he talks about the "magic of therapy".

Some of what he writes, like the "magic" feels creepy sometimes. I would rather do the blank slate kind but I don't know how/where it ends and am stuck with how bad i feel about myself. After 7 years. Like I was stripped down to my core, all raw and naked and vulnerable and weak.

So for me, I didn't go inward. I exposed myself. I went bare. Now I'm cold, and alone, left with myself that was essentially made my someone else. I have to take that and transform it but need Ts help. Not sure how to get his help at this point.

And to add in my case, my former therapist who I'll be contacting soon to break things off with, I think liked the attention.

I was sitting in front of a gorgeous woman telling her how much I felt for her and how I have a beautiful woman dance for me who looks just like her.
She became angry in a session when I said that I was able to separate this dancer from her and I no longer saw a similarity between the two women- my therapist and this dancer. I was able to be myself and tell my former t what this woman looked like and really open up, whereas before when I saw a likeness between them, I was certainly flummoxed. During this portion of the session, she immediately became defensive, angry and spoke to me in a tone I've never heard before.

She referred to our client-therapist relationship as an "us" on a few occasions...
Me: I can't tell many people that I'm attached to you as my therapist and my feelings for you (not romantic) as far as this attachment.
Her: Oh, you can't tell many people about us.

I wanted more from her, boundaries were blurred, yet I put so much faith in her and to find out that she lied about a death in the family. Wow.

I emailed Jeffrey Smith in detail before this and he encouraged me to go back to her. Even get a mediator if I had to. Whatever you do, DON'T leave the therapist you're attached to because there is healing involved.

Not with this therapist. It did teach me to walk away from situations that aren't good for me and to look for reciprocal relationships in real life to work on, but this transference thang isn't high on my list of wonderful experiences.

Yeah, but the therapists who are pushing the clients away seem to want them to keep coming too (unless they actually just dump them), just on their terms. And usually the pushed-away client clings more desperately. (What I meant by on the hook.)

I would assume all therapists want clients to keep coming in, just some get them to keep coming in without playing mind games. Those are the ones we don't hear about so much.

I'm going through an anti-therapist phase. Again. Still.

You're allowed to go through an anti-therapist phase again and still. I think that's totally justified generally and especially given Smaug et al. And thanks for your clarification re: on the hook.

I'll have to keep this in mind when reading the forums. I'd never really considered the distinction between "stop coming" and "Keep coming, but on my terms."

Not something I've experienced either way, personally. Beavers has never gone out of his way to keep me showing up, but neither do his ****-ups seem dictatorial. But he may be his own special brand

Sounds exactly like mine. She has never said the word transference actually although we have talked about our bond a lot.

My T is psychoanalyst but he has never mentioned the word "transference" either although it clearly plays a huge role in my therapy. I personally would hate a therapy that would focus on building skills or my resources though - I'm not a child and I don't need anyone to tell me what to do and how to live my life.

To me all this discussion about the "truth" of transference sounds funny - it is the same as to discuss the "truth" about gravity or something. It is just a name given to a very complex phenomenon that quite clearly exists, as is also evident basically from every post in this forum. To deny it because someone got hurt in a relationship involving it (and most probably all relationships involve it to some extent) looks to me the same as questioning the gravity because you got hit in the head with a falling apple or a stone. It's ok to deny it of course but it's fruitless because things don't stop existing just because someone doesn't like them.

budfox, can you share the link the this article? i would be interested in having a look at it. thanx

Ah, it sounds like you are misunderstanding what I said about how my therapy is about figuring out what I can do to build up my resources to help myself. It has nothing to do worth being a child - I'm an adult, obviously. But I suffered childhood trauma and early bereavement, and I have carried so much grief through my life - I just didn't know how to cope with it, and I tended to shut down a lot when things got stressful. Figuring out ways to take care of myself instead of collapsing internally has been so helpful to me.

My therapist doesn't tell me what to do or how to live my life - his modality is non-hierarchical and we are equals in that room. I have no interest in being told what to do either, and I can't even imagine my therapist telling me how to live my life.

Anyway, I get that you are looking for something different from your therapy, which is cool. There seem to be as many reasons for being in therapy as there are people on this board. I just wanted to clarify to make sure I wasn't being misunderstood.

you make some vary valid points. agreed...it makes me wonder what is really going on when so many clients are sharing similar stories of spending year after year in therapy, suffering through these painful reenactments with their Ts, going round and round in circles and not getting any better. definitely makes me question if this truely is the correct or even ethical way to be trying to solve the deep seated issues that these clients are bring to therapy

yeah...this appears to be quite hypocritical and self serving to me. i can see why it would completely confuse you. have you challenging your T on this observation? it would be interesting to hear her reasoning for why one is ok but yet the other isn't.

No and I can't. I just found out tonight that she probably lied about having to cancel my appointment because of a relative passing and having to go out of town to be with her family. It seems as if this wasn't the case and she's lying about some aspect of it.

I'm quite devastated and in a lot of pain. So much for healing those trust issues. I'll have to decide how to end this relationship w/her in the morning, as I'm in no condition to do so now.

That's how scary this is. I put my truth and faith in this woman, with wounds to heal, and this is how it ends. I'm at a loss for words right now.

personally, i don't feel that it is the 'truth' about transference that is the issue when it comes the therapy. transference is an everyday phenomenon that can occur in every relationship or encounter humans have with each other. it is a pretty simple concept.

the issue should be more of a discussion that focuses on the the real significance of the use of transference in the therapy process... is it necessary to use/explore as a therapeutic tool to catalyses a change in the clients behavior/symptoms or is change/relief possible with alternative methods? should it even be encouraged and possibly manipulated? to what extreme should the transference be allowed to transpire to? does it's usefulness outweigh the potential to cause serious harm to the client? is it even ethical??

those are some of the discussions i would really like to see going on in regard to transference from both the professionals and the clients.

Very much agreed.