Done With T

Perhaps weakness is the best way to describe my fear. I feel like I should stand resolute in my termination of treatment, but his email stirred some lingering feelings of desire to be close to him. I was mad because he wasn't showing concern or empathy, and now he's done both.

This attachment business just hurts so much.

I'm sorry his reply confused you even further. This is why I couldn't leave myself open to last T. I knew it was in my best interest to terminate and we had been struggling anyway. One last session wouldn't bring me closure, because I was already highly dubious and skeptical of her. Once the trust is gone for me, there is absolutely no point. I go by energy and vibes, so I'd prob sit there not believing what she said. I ran the risk of going to one last termination session and not being able to follow through with it and the only reason I would have stayed in therapy with her would have been to avoid the pain of letting go.

That's just my situation and obviously yours has different nuances to it. I'm just adding what happened in my case.

His reply seems standard, nothing out of the ordinary, at least from what I've experienced over going to therapy on and off for over a decade, lol.

And now I'm confused because I just woke up from a nap...isn't he retiring?

Were you testing him, then, do ya think?

Of sorts. He's depaneling from all insurance providers at the end of December and will stop accepting new clients. So he's slowly culling his caseload.

I want to believe he's sincere. Like, I can hear him say what he said in his email and...

It didn't feel like a test. Maybe it was. I don't know.

Daisy - it is up to you, but I don't think the desire for goodbyes is weak. It is human.

There are therapists of mine like DBC that I don't care I didn't have a closure session with because I didn't give a damn about her. There are others that I really wished I did, and with No. 3 I pursued that and I am glad I did. Despite still missing her six weeks on.

I won't lie, it will hurt either way. But you should decide based on what you need, without the lens of self-criticism.

And just because you go back to end things doesn't mean you're not being resolute in your decision to terminate.

Its not about what a t does, its about what WE do. Are we going to follow the same steps in reacting to them, the same path we always did? Or are we going to do something differently?

I used to tell somebody here, i forget who, "take a leap and the net will appear." Thats what they say in acting class.

Full disclosure: I might be a little light headed from eating differently.

I beg to differ with your second sentence in the first quote -because I have absolutely no idea what the second one means.

Just curious, how long have you been seeing him?

Since November 2016.

Either way, I know it's not an easy decision for you. I know all I wanted after rupture was for things to return to normal.

Well, my normal pattern is to run at the first possible slight, but I've been trying not to reenact that with RoboT. So at this juncture I don't know what is the pattern: me wanting to leave when there's difficulty in the relationship or me staying with him.

My impression is that changing the pattern would be trying to work things out with him.

Based on this, I would say the change of pattern would be to not terminate. That being said, you know you are on limited time as you cannot afford to pay out of pocket for him (an assumption), so you have roughly 4.5 months to go at weekly sessions that's roughly 16 sessions given holidays and such. Would increasing frequency be an option for you? Is there some kind of specific goal you could work with him over the 16 weeks, such as just staying connected when you know an ending is coming? Have you ever had a special student that you connected with and didn't want the school year to end because that would mean not seeing them any more? How did you handle the foreknowledge there that the relationship was finite? I know a student is not the same as a peer or a T. Just trying to see if you could tap into some other emotions.

I hear your confusion and pain, I don't know what I would do if I was in your shoes. When I was in a similar situation, I panicked.. literally started having panic attack like symptoms. The thought of her leaving while we were still in the middle of stuff, made me feel like how I felt when my parents separated/divorces through my high school years and I had no one to show me how to be a grown up. I made it to the 8 month before possible separation before I had to talk to her about it. So you are already much closer to being through that than I was ever. You've been hanging in there for many months knowing this was coming. Give yourself credit for doing that work. And if you've done all you can this time around, move on. It's your life... way the risk vs rewards... the gains vs costs. And if you do stay... say those words next time or work out something with him so that you can say some set of words that lets him know how suicidal you are. Maybe he really just missed the boat on that one. Some of us have really good masks and minimize our experiences very well.

An aside about costs does your insurance cover any out of network providers? For me, I have found using the medical savings plan to pay for the yearly out of pocket expense for out of network provider, useful now that my T is in private practice. Even with being out of network, my insurance pays for half the costs. It allows me to spread the cost of the out of network over the year because I hit that annual max at about 5 months. So after 5 months they are all covered... but I have paid only about 1/2 the amount.

I think you are doing a wonderful job here trying to determine what is your next course of action. I don't see an impulsive move here but one where you've considered your thoughts, feelings, other's opinions, and even your doubts. Based on everything you are going through, this is a very realistic set of behaviors.

Take care Daisy,
Elio

I don't think changing the pattern has to be keep on with him or not terminate. It could be, but it could also be a formal ending. Even your message to him doesn't seem to me to be just cutting and running, but trying for a polite break.

This is what I find hard about making decisions like this (my current thoughts about CW, for instance): am I cutting ties too soon, or should I keep giving the other person chances? Change doesn't have to be the exact opposite of what you were doing, there are shades of gray too.

I agree. There are hundreds of variables. It's impossible to articulate our entire therapeutic experience here on a forum, let alone the background to our own behaviors...which most are only slightly aware, of course. Lol.

You're right. I am a teacher in the US. It's a miracle I can afford therapy at all. So out of pocket 100% is not an option. Increasing frequency is not an option either. I already have to go on Saturdays because my time during the week is so limited. I commute 2+ hours daily to/from work. I do have a flexible spending account for medical expenses, but every penny of that is being used for fertility treatments, which are not covered by insurance.

I guess that's another part of my problem. I don't have any specific goals right now, and haven't for a couple of months. This would need to be part of the conversation should I choose to return. Right now I'm just so blinded by my hurt that I can't fathom working on anything specific.

And yes, I think I am one of those people who present okay even when I'm not. That was the topic for almost all of our last session. I am not okay right now, and I need someone to see that. I needed him to see it. If I'm being 100% honest, I needed him to involuntarily hospitalize me. I'm not going to ever admit that I am as suicidal as I am to him or anyone else out loud.

Thank you for such a thoughtful response, Elio. I hope you're well.

Is that because you are feeling hurt right now, or was that always the case? Perhaps you could come up with what you can say to him and let him know that phrase means you are at a "I need intervention" stage.

I use a phrase when I'm close to dissociating. I didn't know I used it, but I always do... so T now knows that if I say that phrase, I've reached a critical point and if we don't change the subject, and I need her to change the subject to reground me, then I'll go.. I'll be gone for a bit.

Is there something other than please help me.. or I'm really there.. that passes through your head repeatedly when you are at that place?

Hi Daisy,

I'm late to this, but I can relate in that my last therapist (before the one I see now) announced that she would be moving out of state after just 5 months in of therapy. She gave me abut 3 months notice, but I was caught--like you--not wanting to keep putting more into something that would need much more time and that I would have to do all over again with someone else. So I quit when she told me, and then when she was scheduled to move, I wanted to go back, and it turned out her moving date was delayed so I had a few more session. It didn't really help a whole lot, to be honest, and just drew out the grief. I do think you might benefit from one last visit, though, to tell him how it hurt you that he let you walk out in your bad state and find out where his head was at with all of that.

Thank you for sharing your experience. It's helpful to know that I'm not the only person who's been through this.



I wasn't in a great place before session, and as it went on I continued to escalate. I spent the entire session talking about how crazy and hopeless I feel, and he did nothing.

(((Daisy)))

Just a quick, rather technical note on when Ts might intervene (I'm sure there are people far more knowledgeable than me on this board about it all but for what it's worth) in the ways you're thinking --

Both current T and former T have been very specific that unless a client reveals exact plans, they cannot and will not attempt to do anything different.

Current T is a lot more relationship / attachment focused and so, unlike former T (whose standard policy form that all clients had to sign was to say that they'd call 911 rather than her) she has been known to schedule extra sessions and / or talk on the phone -- even in those cases though, her main focus has been to determine if there's a clinical emergency and so, she's said that she gets really specific to figure out what actions have been taken or are intended to be taken.

I have not personally been through a crisis of this sort with either of them but this is what they've told me -- current T has told me in some detail about the different kinds of extreme / emergency crises interventions that she's made.

On the other hand, I have for example, described to her in excruciating detail my ideation fantasies -- she's listened (and sometimes okay, joked about it -- which yeah, ouch) but she's not ever gotten really perturbed about it.

She has at other times figured out that I'm not doing well -- or that I may not end up doing well down the road -- and so, offered to be more available than she is usually.

But, all of that stuff was based on things I explicitly told her.

So, would I say that she didn't give a damn earlier and then started to? I don't think so -- I think it's just that she made different clinical judgments based on the information I presented to her. I could of course question the clinical judgments (and her skill in making them -- which I always love to do!) but that's rather separate from deciding whether she cares two hoots about me or not.

It's really hard for a T then -- unless maybe you've worked with them for years and years -- to figure out what constitutes a crisis without the client giving some sort of quasi-clear indication (and that can differ from one T to another in terms of what constitutes a clear indication).

That's not to defend your T -- not at all -- but just to say that something you may be interpreting as a sign of 'not caring' may actually just be some version of a standard clinical practice that he adopts at play?

I don't know. Only you can tell if it's worth it to sort it out or not. I hope things get better for you.

I've given that thought. My response to his question "are you going to hurt yourself" was flippant and I was purposefully obfuscating. Because...I guess that was a test. The specificity of my ideation didn't start until after I had left. After he told me he'd see me next week. And my internal response was "the F you will."

So perhaps it wasn't for him in that moment to take action, because in the room I wasn't specific in my plan. But I feel like my response warranted something other than "I'll see you next week."

I do this with people. I purposefully put people in difficult situations in order for them to fail me. It makes the world make sense to me. The world has always failed me, and it will continue to do so. I wasn't consciously trying to test him, but it's certainly manipulative behavior.

This is what I mean when I say I'm a monster. I manipulate people in a way that is unfair and cruel in order to retain a worldview that isn't serving me anyway. I don't believe that RoboT is bad or is trying to hurt me, but I stacked the cards in a way so that he had no choice but to hurt me.

Dang. I guess that's something for me to explore, whether that be with him or someone else.

Not that I'm quoting current T as the gospel truth but when I beat myself up about being manipulative, she reminds me to chill the eff out because whatever I do served a purpose for me back when.

And, I know all too well about setting up tests that people are bound to fail -- as a mathematicaster, I set up a whole series of tests for her, some sequential and some not. She passed some, catastrophically flunked others and was middling on yet others. Thing is at some point I realized that I can only judge her against the other Ts out there -- the choices among which makes me want to curl up in a fetal ball and cry -- rather than an absolute standard (if I wanted to continue therapy that is).

I don't think you're a monster; I think that approach was probably very useful to you at some point in your life. It either helped you get your needs met in some way, or as you say, helped you feel like you controlled them not getting met--we all need the illusion of control.

It takes a long time and a lot of work to change how we are in the world. It's a process, so try not to beat yourself up too hard for it.

I've done that too with my therapist. In fact, I just almost terminated with my T last week in a quite similar manner. We even had an agreed "termination" session where I then told him that I've changed my mind. It turned out a huge mess because I think for a moment I had managed to completely mess his head and he was so fed up with me for doing these things and testing him constantly that he at first wanted to hear nothing about me having changed my mind.

But I admit, I wanted to hurt him by leaving like this. But the bad thing is that when I achieve my goal of hurting him then this has consequences on me too, I can't do it free of cost. And although I understand these dynamics pretty well (as you do too) I absolutely do not wish to discuss them honestly with T because withholding and blocking that discussion is a great way of frustrating him again and making him feel useless.

We dont allow no animal testing on these here boards! And since we've already established that ts arent human, then they must be animal, vegetable, or mineral. So... corny? Salty? No? Ergo animal. Im a mathster too ya know

Eta : no testing!!! Said like joan crawford said, no wire clothes hangers!!!