[Mouse_]

You know I keep thinking about T's email to me talking about how if she didn't feel she cared, she wouldnt find it necessary to lie to me that she did, either to protect me or herself.

I was thinking, there would be something wrong with me if she didn't care, but maybe thats not it at all, its not about the person, its about the situation.

I want to say "i'm not that special" but I don't mean that in a self degrogory way at all, I mean it in an adult way, that of course I don't need anyone to care or take care of me like a child would, yes we all want someone to care about us, but we don't need it. That relationships are above the level of "you got to feel this way about me" its about experiencing the space around us, together as a unit. Whats going on in the space between.

It's funny, I went to a concert last night and met up with hubbys 2 friends. I dont go out much so last night was good in gaging how I have changed.

The guys we met up with I noticed I was just being friendly with and not trying to dive into an intimate friendship with them within 5mins of meeting. Something I've always thought one had to do, you know to add another friend to ones list, unable to seperate casual from intimate.

I obviously did note how I felt about them on first meeting which I think is a self-defence automatic reaction, you know, am I safe? who are these people? but I didnt have to make them bad or good, it was a kind of friendly indiffence.

I realised then that my relationship with T is real, because I feel things with her, the space in between us has been born and nutured and is real in that respect.

Its doesnt matter that I don't know her birthday, or how many dogs shes ever had or stuff like that, its all the stuff thats been shared emotionally that is real.

I'd never had time to experience that really growing up, as life was aggressive, abusive, loud and hectic, everyone shouting to be heard, arguments to get be won, no intimacy.

[Perna]

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Mouse_ said:
I obviously did note how I felt about them on first meeting which I think is a self-defence automatic reaction, you know, am I safe? who are these people? but I didnt have to make them bad or good, it was a kind of friendly indiffence.

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We have to put the new people somewhere in our cognitive structure? If only to make a memory: "Oh, he's the guy in the blue shirt I liked, with the sweaty palm, at the concert last week" sort of thing.

My T and I got into uncomfortable discussions because I wasn't curious about other people, didn't ask them about themselves and try to find out about them because I wanted to know. It's hard to get "intimate"/get to know another person if you aren't curious about them, just go through the social motions or like them for what they can do for you (like T's who listen well and "hold" us and look-out-for and teach us stuff). I sometimes catch myself now asking people (in person) questions about themselves because I'm "supposed to" rather than because I really want to know? And I don't necessarily listen to the answer either, just tick off having asked the question in the first place from my social to-do list and move on.

I don't take things personally anymore but there's that farther on wanting to know and care about others in more than a surface manner too which I don't have (yet). My T implied it wasn't a necessity and that people have different built-in capacities for caring, for wanting to ask people about themselves AND wanting to know the answers.

[Mouse_]

You know its strange, because during conversation, or rather my abilty to listen rather than be heard now I noticed, but I think what I was noticing, was how I didn't have to take them "hostage" wasn't looking for someone to rescue me. yeah I think thats it. Before T I was on the look out for that special someone to rescue me. It was nice just being polite and open to anything.

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Mouse_ said:

I realised then that my relationship with T is real, because I feel things with her, the space in between us has been born and nutured and is real in that respect.

Its doesnt matter that I don't know her birthday, or how many dogs shes ever had or stuff like that, its all the stuff thats been shared emotionally that is real.

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Mouse, I cannot thank you enough for posting this. This is something I have been struggling with for awhile. I often wonder if the relationship with T is real, how much of it can really be real when it is so colored with transference, and I have gone so far as to call him a stranger in session. When reading your post, I realized that not only are all the feelings real, but it doesn't matter that I don't know facts about him like his birthday or what he likes to do on the weekend-- those are not intimate details. I can know that about anybody. However, with T, I have shared tears, laughter, the meaning of my poetry, pain, images, connections, and disconnections-- things that I have never shared with anybody.

[chaotic13]

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I sometimes catch myself now asking people (in person) questions about themselves because I'm "supposed to" rather than because I really want to know? And I don't necessarily listen to the answer either, just tick off having asked the question in the first place from my social to-do list and move on.

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%#@&#!, I do this ALL THE TIME! I was at a wedding this weekend and I didn't really know anyone there other than the bride. At one point someone asked me if I was keeping all the names straight. Inside I was like Heck NO, not even trying!

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My T implied it wasn't a necessity and that people have different built-in capacities for caring, for wanting to ask people about themselves AND wanting to know the answers.

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So was she saying it was OK not to really want to get to know people?

I think sometimes I avoid establishing relationships for fear that I may actually enjoy them and then miss them when the people move on. I think this is why I may be avoiding opening up in therapy, because I do not want to be come dependent on her. I don't want to start expecting things from her. I can't get upset with her if I don't really care to being with.

[Fuzzybear]

((((((( mouse )))))))

[MissCharlotte]

Mouse,

Great posting full of thought provoking comments!

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realised then that my relationship with T is real, because I feel things with her, the space in between us has been born and nutured and is real in that respect.

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Yeah, the space between. I think this is what I perceived when i posted about the chairs seeming closer. When T and I are truly connecting in an intimate way than the space between us feels smaller.

As far as meeting new people, I go in one of two diverse directions. I either glom on and get to know too much about them or I do a 180 degree turn and just shake a hand and move on because I can't bear any more than that. I think I don't really connect though and the "glomming on" happens when I am trying to impress someone for personal gain or security.

Like on my new job during orientation I was the most friendly outgoing person but I didn't really make one close friend. But I am friendly with everyone. Does that make sense? Not one of them know me really.

Thanks for the post.