[Trace14]

I guess I'm too old for therapy and had silly notion that therapists were there to guide and help a person. Had no idea it was about going in and spilling my inner most painful memories, only to have the therapist not acknowledge what I shared, then they have nothing to offer as to why, or what to do about what's bothering me, but they do remember to collect the fee and schedule another appointment.
I watched this Kati Morton video

on what Therapists think.
She says she throws out some crumbs so the client can figure out themselves what's going on. Wouldn't it be easier to just say what you thought was going on, discuss it, and make a treatment plan instead of dragging it out and doing more harm to the client? Okay, getting off the soapbox.

[maybeblue]

They aren't all like that. If you want a more active or directive therapist look for one that specializes in "cognitive therapy" or "solution based therapy." It sounds like your therapist is more psychodynamic, which can absolutely do more harm than good for some people.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by maybeblue

They aren't all like that. If you want a more active or directive therapist look for one that specializes in "cognitive therapy" or "solution based therapy." It sounds like your therapist is more psychodynamic, which can absolutely do more harm than good for some people.

Just finding that right one though. I've seen a few and most seem to either be lazy, uncaring, or unqualified, or maybe all of those. And if you question them or ask to do things different you would think you called them by something other than their birth name.

[stopdog]

I found CBT to be actively harmful to me. I don't think many of those guys know what they are doing and it is a lot of trial and error to figure out if therapy of any sort can help someone and how to make it useful despite therapists.

[AllHeart]

The bread crumb approach doesn't work for me either. My t doesn't operate like that. She will guide me, acknowledge what I share with her, offer me ways to heal, and so on. What about looking for another therapist that can offer you what you need?

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I found CBT to be actively harmful to me. I don't think many of those guys know what they are doing and it is a lot of trial and error to figure out if therapy of any sort can help someone and how to make it useful despite therapists.

So where do we go to get help? It really sucks and explains a lot about how many people have severe mental health issues and resort to extremes.

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

The bread crumb approach doesn't work for me either. My t doesn't operate like that. She will guide me, acknowledge what I share with her, offer me ways to heal, and so on. What about looking for another therapist that can offer you what you need?

You better hold on to that T. They are far and few between. I get my counseling through the Veterans Admin and choices are very limited.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Trace14

You better hold on to that T. They are far and few between. I get my counseling through the Veterans Admin and choices are very limited.

I’m very timidly sharing this.

My counselor has worked with me from things that I’ve read and sought help for myself.

Not that you haven’t. Just saying.

The Body Keeps The Score has some really great things to work through things that aren’t really main stream. It’s wasn’t them it may be now

Anyway.

I read and found things that I thought that would help me if we could try them.

My counselor was open to them and we tried them.

It helped me.

I don’t know if this applies to your situation, but if you wanted to see if a mode of something helps you and they open to it - maybe?

Just a kind hearted thought.

Originally Posted by Trace14

I guess I'm too old for therapy and had silly notion that therapists were there to guide and help a person. Had no idea it was about going in and spilling my inner most painful memories, only to have the therapist not acknowledge what I shared, then they have nothing to offer as to why, or what to do about what's bothering me, but they do remember to collect the fee and schedule another appointment.
I watched this Kati Morton video

on what Therapists think.
She says she throws out some crumbs so the client can figure out themselves what's going on. Wouldn't it be easier to just say what you thought was going on, discuss it, and make a treatment plan instead of dragging it out and doing more harm to the client? Okay, getting off the soapbox.

Couldn't be bothered to watch the video.
Therss good and bad. Personally, I kept on until I found something that worked. I understand therapy. I'm 56. So there's hope '>)

[here today]

I'm 70. Spent a lot of time and money on therapy and have given up. I understand therapy, too. Maybe my understanding is different, though.

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

I think that "leading the client to the answers" thing is due to the fact that if somebody finds the answer for themselves, it will stick more. If somebody explains to me some proof of a concept, I won't remember it as well as if I proved it myself. Plus, it gives you a sense of accomplishment, which might help you a bit too.

That being said, I like it the way my T does it: he first tries to get me to find answers myself. If he realizes that this won't work, he'll make it more obvious.

I think I understand the concepts and premises behind therapy pretty well and that is not the issue for me (or was in the fact that therapy did little to me). It is more that, IMO, there are often large gaps between the idea(l)/premise and the reality of it. I like a lot of psychological theories and find a lot of truth in them, but I also think that the reality of psychotherapy is extremely limited compared with it's premises. And I am not saying it's necessarily because it is practiced in unethical ways (although that happens quite often, too), more because it is simply very limited and artificial, and so its conclusions can also become distorted. Either that, or the T won't offer much because they know all too well that it is impossible to accurately perceive and advise a person's complex emotional challenges from the point of view of seeing them once (or even several times) for an hour of conversation in the same room - settings that have little to no relevance to the person's life and where our difficulties occur. I do believe that many Ts really mean well and try to be helpful, but the whole thing inevitably runs into the limitations of the construct. With some clients/T more than others.

[Fuzzybear]

I too had that “silly notion that therapists were there to guide and help people”
(Long term psychodynamic therapist turned abusive and dumped me )

[Trace14]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

I too had that “silly notion that therapists were there to guide and help people”
(Long term psychodynamic therapist turned abusive and dumped me )

It's frustrating for sure and not surprising how so many people hit a wall.

[CelestialFlame]

It really just depends on the therapist. Each one has their own way of dealing with the client and the entire process of therapy. You just have to try it a few times and find the right one if you feel you need it

[here today]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I think I understand the concepts and premises behind therapy pretty well and that is not the issue for me (or was in the fact that therapy did little to me). It is more that, IMO, there are often large gaps between the idea(l)/premise and the reality of it. I like a lot of psychological theories and find a lot of truth in them, but I also think that the reality of psychotherapy is extremely limited compared with it's premises. And I am not saying it's necessarily because it is practiced in unethical ways (although that happens quite often, too), more because it is simply very limited and artificial, and so its conclusions can also become distorted. Either that, or the T won't offer much because they know all too well that it is impossible to accurately perceive and advise a person's complex emotional challenges from the point of view of seeing them once (or even several times) for an hour of conversation in the same room - settings that have little to no relevance to the person's life and where our difficulties occur. I do believe that many Ts really mean well and try to be helpful, but the whole thing inevitably runs into the limitations of the construct. With some clients/T more than others.

Well-said, Xynesthesia. I agree. With all the misery I have experienced due to bad therapy, I believe that the reality needs to be made more explicit for people entering therapy, and possibly again when therapy runs into a brick wall, pothole/abyss, or other limitation. Don't know what I can do to change any of that, though, but to continue to speak out, as others are doing about their experiences, both good and bad.

[tomatenoir]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I think I understand the concepts and premises behind therapy pretty well and that is not the issue for me (or was in the fact that therapy did little to me). It is more that, IMO, there are often large gaps between the idea(l)/premise and the reality of it. I like a lot of psychological theories and find a lot of truth in them, but I also think that the reality of psychotherapy is extremely limited compared with it's premises. And I am not saying it's necessarily because it is practiced in unethical ways (although that happens quite often, too), more because it is simply very limited and artificial, and so its conclusions can also become distorted. Either that, or the T won't offer much because they know all too well that it is impossible to accurately perceive and advise a person's complex emotional challenges from the point of view of seeing them once (or even several times) for an hour of conversation in the same room - settings that have little to no relevance to the person's life and where our difficulties occur. I do believe that many Ts really mean well and try to be helpful, but the whole thing inevitably runs into the limitations of the construct. With some clients/T more than others.

Yes. One hour of conversation is not enough to keep the boat afloat for the rest of the week. Support has to come from more than one place. It's something I wish therapists would be more explicit about.

My therapist recently asked me if I had considered going twice a week to see him. Tempting as it is, I said no. Talking can only go so far.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Trace14

She says she throws out some crumbs so the client can figure out themselves what's going on. Wouldn't it be easier to just say what you thought was going on, discuss it, and make a treatment plan instead of dragging it out and doing more harm to the client?

This is my experience... therapists have no better idea what is going on than the client or anyone else. It's a smoke and mirrors thing. There is no treatment, no special powers, no magical words that will make all the hurt go away. They are putting on an act, for some cash, and some feel-good for themselves.

And I've watched a bunch of Kati Morton videos and she terririfes me. I find her perspective on life straight-up delusional, like a cartoon version.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by BudFox

This is my experience... therapists have no better idea what is going on than the client or anyone else. It's a smoke and mirrors thing. There is no treatment, no special powers, no magical words that will make all the hurt go away. .

My T is the first one to tell me these things. In fact, she has...multiple times. She knows that she can only help me as much as I want to help myself (admittely, very little), but that she is willing to hang in there with me as long as I am willing.

This is not to say she doesn't try. She throws out all sorts of different things I could attempt in order to make myself feel better, but I reject them all. I gather I probably am highly frustrating, but she never shows it.

Not ALL T's are cackling to themselves how they are hoodwinking their clients. My T has been up front with me since day 1, and I find it refreshing.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by BudFox

And I've watched a bunch of Kati Morton videos and she terririfes me. I find her perspective on life straight-up delusional, like a cartoon version.

I watched her for about 10 seconds and could not abide her at all.

[maybeblue]

The only way that I have found that therapy "works" for me is if I take pretty strict control of the process. I always go in there with an agenda of what we are going to talk about that session. I have very clear goals in my head about what I want. I expect the therapist to treat me like an intelligent human being and so I don't want any sneaky, manipulative stuff. Of course I hire them because they have knowledge and experience, so it would be silly for me not to listen and consider their advice. But in the end it is my life, so if after really thinking about that advice, I decide it's wrong for me then I don't follow it.

I'll be honest though, it has taken literally years of therapy, and tons of money, to figure out how to make it work for me. And I had several bad therapists who made it worse before I figured out what kind of therapist I need. I guess I keep going because I know that I am less shy now and have I have fewer depression episodes than I did when I started.

[Elio]

Originally Posted by BudFox

This is my experience... therapists have no better idea what is going on than the client or anyone else. It's a smoke and mirrors thing. There is no treatment, no special powers, no magical words that will make all the hurt go away.

My T has been clear from the very beginning that it is I that knows my life stories not her. I am the only one that knows how I experienced, retained, remembered the events of my life. She also has been very clear that this process is painful and refers to it as neurosurgery without anesthesia. She acknowledges my pain through the process and readily admits that there is no magic wands. She would disagree with you on the concept of no treatment and no words to make things better, that hopefully over the long haul through the process/path, the changes would make the hurt be manageable. She would agree that there is no way to make the hurt go away as long as we are living/alive.

[satsuma]

Trace, I recommend looking into schema therapy. It has worked very well for me and helped me hugely. It is a structured approach so both client and therapist know what they are doing and why, and goals are regularly discussed. It's structured like CBT, but more in- depth and longer term, and with some gestalt elements like using imagery to get in touch with emotions (which complements the logical approach of CBT). I have found it very good. I don't think I would get on at all with a therapist who didn't share what their plan was and why.

[Sheffield]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I found CBT to be actively harmful to me. I don't think many of those guys know what they are doing and it is a lot of trial and error to figure out if therapy of any sort can help someone and how to make it useful despite therapists.

I agree re CBT-I found CAT to be even worse-within 2 sessions I described it to therapist as "winding me up like a toy mouse for a cat (the therapist)"
I felt emotions I'd never had come at me with violence incoherence and fear-I left feeling I'd been eviscerated and turfed out into the car park -horrific

[MoxieDoxie]

[QUOTE=Mouse_62;5993645 I'm 56. So there's hope '>[/QUOTE]

I am 51 and restarted therapy. I started with one before thanks giving and just had my first session with another one as he is doing EMDR. He really hit a sore spot with me that the other therapist did not figure out. I cried like an idiot and was pissed I was even brought to tears at a first session. It really shook me for the rest of the day.