[mcl6136]

Tomorrow is my "return" to therapy after my perplexing and enraging session, which I wrote about elsewhere. (Thanks everyone for hearing me out and offering lots of perspective).

I'm open about going back and seeing if this r/s is worth salvaging. Well, who am I kidding? Not the gang here! The truth is, I'm only kind of open to this. My problem is that in the few text messages that I've exchanged with her since the blow-out, I don't get the impression that she thinks that any errors happened on her end. In other words, this was all **my** over-reaction and if there was any difficulty it was a "misunderstanding." I think I understood her just fine, though, and think she screwed up hugely.

Have you ever known a therapist to outright apologize for an approach and acknowledge that what they said in a session was damaging to a client's progress or well-being?

I haven't and I'm apprehensive as ****

[zoiecat]

Once when I told my therapist that I was struggling due to something he did or didn't do in a session explain to me why he made the decision he did but in the next sentence said he made a wrong call. It was good to understand why he did what he did and to hear him admit that it was the wrong decision. I guess I got lucky with my therapist even though he makes me mad sometimes he's the best.p

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by zoiecat

Once when I told my therapist that I was struggling due to something he did or didn't do in a session explain to me why he made the decision he did but in the next sentence said he made a wrong call. It was good to understand why he did what he did and to hear him admit that it was the wrong decision. I guess I got lucky with my therapist even though he makes me mad sometimes he's the best.p

You did get lucky! Enjoy!

Therapists are humans like us, and all humans make mistakes. Yes, therapists can make mistakes and the good ones will admit it.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by scaredandconfused

Therapists are humans like us, and all humans make mistakes. Yes, therapists can make mistakes and the good ones will admit it.

Yeah, your answer is incisive and it's the second part (admitting) that I'm really more concerned about.

Mine has admitted if she got something wrong and is more than willing to apologize. There have also been times where I was the one who was in the wrong and ended up apologizing to her. It happens both ways, just like in any relationship. Hopefully your T can see where you are coming from and the relationship can be salvaged. Good luck!

[Elio]

I have gotten an apology out right, at least once. I have gotten several acknowledgements of seeing how I could feel some way based on what she did. I've gotten a few, yes, I missed that.

I'm good with these most the time. There was one time (and only one) that I took the nonverbal interaction to be one where she would not own her portion of stuff. That was fairly early on and it might have just been my perception - where I was at the time as I was in a "rebellious" mindset.

[SalingerEsme]

Mine is so notable for the lack of apologizing I researched it. Some T's believe there are many drawbacks to apologizing to clients- the more blank slate, the less the apologies.

She isn't REALLY going to stand behind oh poor white men is she?

I think you should ask her- so T, what does # me too mean to you?

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by besidemyselvez

Mine has admitted if she got something wrong and is more than willing to apologize. There have also been times where I was the one who was in the wrong and ended up apologizing to her. It happens both ways, just like in any relationship. Hopefully your T can see where you are coming from and the relationship can be salvaged. Good luck!

thank you....my anxiety is all over the map!

[LonesomeTonight]

My ex-T did apologize a couple times--once said she had clearly taken the wrong approach with me, and another time she said she had gotten too close and probably pulled back too much. I appreciated those. (There were other times she was defensive though.) And currently T basically apologized for not making me feel cared for during our session yesterday in response to my e-mail: "Of course I care about you and how you do/feel, and I'm sorry if somehow my actions failed to convey that to you today."

My marriage counselor (for whom I have/had strong attachment/transference) has always tended to be very defensive when I've criticized him or said he's hurt me. Sometimes I've eventually gotten an apology or admission of making a mistake out of him, but it's taken a few sessions or, most recently, a couple sessions and a lengthy phone call before he seemed to understand and apologize/take some responsibility.

I think sometimes their egos get in the way. I feel it's very important for T's to be able to examine themselves and consider how what they're feeling and doing may be affecting the client. Like, think of their own countertransference, etc.

I hope your T will apologize and admit her mistakes. There's hope...

Edited to add: I just saw that your communication post-session was via text message--that (and e-mail) are ripe for misunderstanding on both ends. In person gives you a much better shot (because then you can also see body language, hear tone of voice, etc.).

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by Elio

I have gotten an apology out right, at least once. I have gotten several acknowledgements of seeing how I could feel some way based on what she did. I've gotten a few, yes, I missed that.

I'm good with these most the time. There was one time (and only one) that I took the nonverbal interaction to be one where she would not own her portion of stuff. That was fairly early on and it might have just been my perception - where I was at the time as I was in a "rebellious" mindset.

Yeah, I "read into" things all the time; it's something I really have struggled with in the past and have also been in a rebellious mindset. However, in the horrid appointment, at first I was way surprised at her approach, then kind of pushing back and questioning her. Then, when I learned that, yes, T really does want to play the "devil's advocate" rather than seeing things from my perspective, I just kind of shut down.

Part of me does wonder if I just want a T to always take my side and just fully support me regardless of my behavior. And yeah, I kind of do.

[ElectricManatee]

My T has definitely admitted to making mistakes and has apologized for them. Sometimes she and I don't agree on what counts as a mistake, but I have seen her admit to making them and had her make things right.

[AllHeart]

Yes, My current t admits her wrongdoings and she apologizes with what appears to be sincerity. My t even apologizes when I get ticked off over something she did that wasn’t wrong. I hope your t Steps up to the plate!!

[here today]

I'm not sure that "right or wrong" is exactly the issue. Can the therapist recognize, or get curious enough to ask, how you felt during the blow-up? Regardless of her intentions or her delivery on her intentions, can she recognize how her behavior impacted you.

I never had a therapist who could. Seems like some here on the forum have, though.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

Mine is so notable for the lack of apologizing I researched it. Some T's believe there are many drawbacks to apologizing to clients- the more blank slate, the less the apologies.

She isn't REALLY going to stand behind oh poor white men is she?

I think you should ask her- so T, what does # me too mean to you?

I am going to do just that.

Mine has admitted she was wrong more than once. Not every time, but enough that it counts.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

Yes, My current t admits her wrongdoings and she apologizes with what appears to be sincerity. My t even apologizes when I get ticked off over something she did that wasn’t wrong. I hope your t Steps up to the plate!!

Jealous!!

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by ArtieSwimsOn

Mine has admitted she was wrong more than once. Not every time, but enough that it counts.

that's very cool. You never know...it might happen for me!

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by here today

I'm not sure that "right or wrong" is exactly the issue. Can the therapist recognize, or get curious enough to ask, how you felt during the blow-up? Regardless of her intentions or her delivery on her intentions, can she recognize how her behavior impacted you.

I never had a therapist who could. Seems like some here on the forum have, though.

Exactly! It's the effect on the relationship and the prospect of working together that I'm concerned with....

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

My T has definitely admitted to making mistakes and has apologized for them. Sometimes she and I don't agree on what counts as a mistake, but I have seen her admit to making them and had her make things right.

Makes me feel that negotiation should be possible!

[maybeblue]

Yes, my therapist has apologized to me. And it was a real apology too, not a "I'm sorry you felt that way." He then went on to "explain" what he meant by what he said. He prefaced by saying something like, "I probably didn't do a very good job of explaining it," as opposed to "your irrational beliefs and low self-esteem made you interpret that wrong."...although truthfully that could have happened too.

[mcl6136]

Originally Posted by maybeblue

Yes, my therapist has apologized to me. And it was a real apology too, not a "I'm sorry you felt that way." He then went on to "explain" what he meant by what he said. He prefaced by saying something like, "I probably didn't do a very good job of explaining it," as opposed to "your irrational beliefs and low self-esteem made you interpret that wrong."...although truthfully that could have happened too.

My irrational beliefs and low-self esteem did come into play!

[Gettingitsoon]

Not often at all but feels good when it does.
'Boy, how could I have missed that'
sounded like a recognition of a pretty clear
lapse on her part.

[ElectricManatee]

One thing I have noticed is that even when my T doesn't think she has done anything "wrong," she still wants to fully explore what happened and how I felt and how I interpreted every part of the rupture and what connections I made to other things and what anxiety it brought up for me. And while she's doing that (honestly, sometimes I get exhausted during the process because it is so detailed), she is never trying to change my perspective or make a counterpoint based on her experience of what happened. She is just listening and trying to understand my point of view.

Sometimes not apologizing is pure stubbornness on her part, but often it seems like a sneaky T trick to keep me engaged with the issue and to keep me motivated to pour out all my feelings and reactions. I can think of a few specific situations where her apologizing right away would have cut off the opportunity for us both to learn from my reaction because it would have taken the wind from the sails of my (justifiable) self-righteous anger. There was one time in particular where she waited until I was over the incident (a couple of sessions, if I recall correctly) and then she gave me two specific pieces of information that filled in some necessary gaps about why she had done what she did. I had been feeling unsure if I could trust her, and that well-timed disclosure affirmed my decision to decide she was safe again. (The incident was not anything dangerous, illegal, or unethical -- just a small thing that temporarily made me see her in a different light.)

Anyway, none of this is to say that your T wasn't being tone-deaf in this situation (clearly she was!) but just that getting to a resolution even with a good, attuned T can be much more onerous and complicated than resolving a dispute with a friend or partner in everyday life. Only you can be the judge of whether this therapist can resolve things to your liking.

[mcl6136]

[QUOTE=ElectricManatee;6000929] it seems like a sneaky T trick to keep me engaged with the issue and to keep me motivated to pour out all my feelings and reactions. I can think of a few specific situations where her apologizing right away would have cut off the opportunity for us both to learn from my reaction because it would have taken the wind from the sails of my (justifiable) self-righteous anger.


Yeah, part of my reluctance to continue on with this T is that I do have a lot of self-righteous anger. And I'm afraid that the therapy is going to turn a corner into gender politics rather than dealing with my basic issue: loneliness. And as I have come to believe, loneliness--at least in modern American culture -- is just a notch or two above leprosy.