In Session Today: Part IV

TMC, I know we aren't C or your dad. You deserve to eat. Your worth is not determined by your size. Intuitive eating seems helpful for eating disorders. I'm sorry society and your family are so terribly fatphobic.

I've always been thin and underweight due to genetics, it has nothing to do with discipline and effort for me. Research shows that BMI and weight etc aren't actually reliable indicators of health.

T yesterday. I'd sent him two emails on Sunday--the first about something I wanted to talk about in session and the second saying how I'd contacted my p-doc about possible side effects from my new medication and she'd mentioned possible intensive outpatient program, so if she contacted him about that, I wanted to just discuss it in session.

Went back and sat down. T was wearing his glasses, which he only occasionally wears, so he looked more intellectual than usual. He said p-doc had not contacted him. I said OK, good, that she'd written me back this morning and hadn't mentioned IOP again, just suggested what amounts of meds to take. I said I'd probably overreacted. That I was scared she'd suggested IOP and would have contacted T and I'd have come in today and it would have been some sort of intervention scenario (since she was suggesting it for alcohol issues). T (in a very caring way): "I'm always going to be up front with you. I'd never set up something like that behind your back." Me: "OK, thanks."

Me: "I think I was just worried from when ex-p-doc had suggested IOP, where she implied she'd already talked to ex-T and ex-MC about it, when she really hadn't. And in that case, had I gone to it, I wouldn't have been able to see ex-T or ex-MC for 3 months. And I was worried current p-doc would have talked to you before I came in and..." T (in a compassionate tone): "People will often think one step ahead and worry about that. But here, you were taking multiple steps, with the worst-case scenario in each." Me: "Yeah, I know..." T: "The chance of even one of those happening...your mind just jumps way ahead." Me: "I wish I wasn't like that."

T: "Let's think about the reality of the situation. If p-doc had called me, what would have happened?" Me: "I guess you would have said you'd talk to me about it today." T: "Yes, and I would have let the decision be up to you. I would have talked to you like an adult about it." Me: "OK." T: "I wonder if this could partly be your fear of a lack of autonomy. Maybe this ties into your mom and the sense of authority figures knowing what is best for you." Me: "Hm, I hadn't thought of that. And then my fear that I'd come in and you would push me to attend that as well." T: "With us it would be two adults having a conversation. But I don't get the sense it would be with you and your mom." Me: "Yeah...like even now, she still treats me like a kid, like I can't be trusted to make my own decisions."

T said how that probably stems from her anxiety issues, her feeling that she needs to be in control. We discussed a recent example with her wanting to go to a certain restaurant then being taken aback by my not wanting to go there (had bad reaction--like allergic--to their food the last time) and seeming unwilling to change from that. T said was good example. T: "Sometime in the future, maybe much further down the line, I want you to be able to feel compassion for your mom, to understand why she is the way she is. But for now, it's enough to realize this is her stuff, not yours."

We discussed the medication stuff some more, and side effects I thought I might be having. T: "I really hoped this one would work out for you, would give you some relief." Me: "Thanks. I think SSRIs just aren't my friend. Maybe I should have said something to p-doc sooner?" T: "I think you handled this exactly right. You gave it enough time to try it out, and you said something when it was bothering you." Me: "Thanks, that helps to hear." T: "I want you to think that, too." Me: "OK."

Partway through that conversation, as I was trying to fix my hair, T said: "You seem uncomfortable with your hair." Me: "Yeah I am." T: "It's shorter." Me: "Yeah, I got it cut." T: "I almost didn't recognize you. Plus you're wearing short sleeves!" Me: "Yep." T: "Sometimes you run your hands through your hair." Me: "Yeah, it's one of my anxiety tells. One of about 15. In fact it's probably more odd if I'm *not* doing something anxiety-related!"

T said we had 20 minutes left, did I want to shift to talking about the other thing I'd emailed him about? Was up to me.

(Here's what I'd sent him: "Something's been on my mind lately, and I had sort of a revelation about it yesterday that may have connected some dots, like present and past stuff. I think we should talk about it tomorrow, because I think it also involves some fears about trusting you. Like, I'm starting to really trust you, and I think that *may* be why I'm wondering about this topic?

However, the "present" part is rather awkward and involves you and what could be considered transference stuff, in the sense of "how I relate to male authority figures" (or possibly males in general?) and how they relate to me. I'm concerned that part of it will seem like I'm asking you something, when I'm very much not. It's like I need to talk about the desire to know (and why that's there) without actually asking the question. Does that make sense? For example (this is *not* what I want to talk about!): Say I wanted to know if you had any pets. It's not about whether you actually have pets--and I'm not asking if you do. It's about why it matters to me if you do and why I've also wondered if other male authority figures had pets.

I just want to make sure that tomorrow you don't answer the question that it may seem like I'm asking/implying because I DON'T want to know the answer.")

Back to session: Me: "I think? Yeah, I guess we should talk about it." T: "We could wait if you prefer." Me: "No, we can talk now. I just don't know how to start. Um..." T: "Are you worried about how I'll react?" Me [crying]: "Yes." T: "I'm guessing from what you said in the email it's about wanting to know more about my personal life?" Me: "Actually, no. Oh, I guess you're saying that because of the pets example. That's not really what it's about." T: "OK." I pulled out my typed notes from my purse, stared at them and spent a few minutes trying to get it out. At one point, T said, "You're hiding your face with your hand." Me: "Yes, this is very hard for me." I finally just handed him my typed notes and said, "Can you just read this?" He started to read and, to distract myself, I gathered the skunk, frog, gecko, and turtle in his tiny sand tray around a piece of wood that I thought of as a fire.

Here's most of what was on the paper (doing trigger thing to be safe):

Me: "I'm also scared that since I shared this, then...maybe you won't be willing to shake my hand anymore" (lots of tears). T: "LT, I would never take that away." Me: "OK it helps to know that, thanks."


Me: "I think it's just that I'm starting to really trust you. And [crying] that's really scary, especially after ex-MC. so..." T: "It's like you're waiting for the other shoe to drop?" Me: "Yeah." T: "I don't see a shoe anywhere." Me: "OK. And maybe it's also like...I'm trying to figure out what's wrong with you, like..." T: "Sort of sabotage? Maybe that's too harsh of a word." Me: "Yeah not quite that, more hypervigilance. And I need this to be someplace where I feel safe. So it's like if certain stuff started to...sneak in, then maybe it wouldn't be as safe?"

T: "Have I ever said or done anything that's made you feel uncomfortable?" Me: "No, I don't think so." T: "OK, good, because I certainly wouldn't want that. If I ever do, please tell me." Me: "OK." T: "And just so you know, I don't think you've ever acted in a flirtatious way toward me, at least nothing that I've noticed." Me: "OK that helps to hear."

Me: "I'm sorry, I feel like this is just all jumbled up and I don't know what's going on with it." T: "That's why it's good to talk about it." Me: "Yeah, I keep thinking about it, so like if I didn't bring it up, I was afraid it was going to block things in here, like affect the therapy." T: "It's good you brought it up." Me: "I'm definitely still trying to figure it out. I think this is a 'to be continued' conversation." T: "Definitely. We can talk more about it Wednesday if you like."

Me: "Are you sure you're OK with all this?" T: "Yes, LT." Me: "I worry you'll think about this more later today and change your mind about whether it's OK." T: "If that happens, then we'd just talk it through next session." Me: "OK. I'll probably worry about it tonight. I'll try not to email." T: "You know my email policy." Me: "yes." (I ended up sending him a very brief email, just asking if he was still OK with everything from session. He replied, "Yes--all is well. More to discuss Wednesday." Which made me feel better.)

We were a couple minutes over. I paid, T held out his hand and we shook hands (felt just like our usual handshake) as he said "I'll see you Wednesday." Me: "See you then. Thanks." Not sure how good a job I did of conveying this, but all session T seemed particularly caring. Just in tone of voice, body language, how he looked at me. Typing his words doesn't really capture it all.

(((LT))) Good on you for getting that out there

Thanks, Una. It was pretty scary. And I'm nervous to walk in there tomorrow (a day early because he'll be away Thursday/Friday).

From my session today:

T- It’s really about control. Try holding a handful of sand.

Me- Pshh, I could totally do that.

I told him that last session hadn't come away with the assurance I wanted that he doesn't see me as a threat to his family. He said he consciously doesn't. I said I want to know that all of him doesn't. And he said there have been enough of these instances that something is going on for him and he doesn't know what it is.
I said it hurts that he can't give me that assurance. He said it troubles him that he can't.

About 10 minutes from the end I raised what he had said last week about me not asking for hugs, just going ahead and hugging him. I said I had noticed it too. He said it felt different from before, because before I had felt like he had initiated (he said he didn't feel like he had) but that now I don't seem to be experiencing it thst way.
My vision went weird. I stop I myself out of it. He asked what had happened and I told him. He said follow the thought you shook your self out of. What would you say?
I thought and said "I would want to say that I want you to initiate hugs".
Can't remember what was said immediately after that but shortly after he said "the thought I have is that I worry that if I initiated hugs you could experience that as abusive.
I said "I'm not actually saying you should initiate hugs. I said that because you asked me where my thoughts would go."
I said I didn't know whether to give my response to that so close to the end. I said I'm not trying to entrap him. I said it reminds me of when he said he worried I could one day be sat with another T talking about him the way I talk about T1. T said he knows I'm not and he wouldn't have agreed to hug me if he thought that.
A minute passed and he said "did you believe me when I said that?" I said "on one level, yes." I said "I'm also scared you think I am going to make a complaint about you." He said he's not. I looked at the clock which was a couple of minutes over and said "we should stop".
I paid then I said "can I have a hug please?" He said yes and he hugged me tight. He kept trying to make eye contact as we left. He said Take care. There were some people, presumably friends arriving on his doorstep as I left.

Good work Echos!

8 characters.

Reading this, I felt a visceral sense of anxiety for some reason. I don't usually, and follow your T posts with interests. I got worried if he is struggling with some real feelings for you? Things seem reversed- like you stopping the session and he is seeking eye contact? I love how honest he is and accountable- like saying it bothers him too that consciously he doesn't see you in opposition to his family but he is scrutinizing the incidents. I don't believe my T would share at that level, and I think it is great yours does.

I appreciate those thoughts Esme. I think you are probably picking up on my anxiety actually. I felt very unsettled by the lack of resolution to the session. I usually have a crap week when I don't have a rounded session and that's proving true already.

As for the stopping the sessions - we talked about that today actually. I have ended every session for the last 3.5 years. He said today thst I'm very careful about the boundaries and we talked about how I do seem to feel responsible for everyone's boundaries in every aspect of my life. It makes me quite a naggy parent sometimes and I also slip into it sometimes on PC come to think of it, calling out 'unsupportive' posts when it's not my place to do so. I think it stems from my mother's inability to hold safe boundaries. So it's something I do for my own safety. Going over a couple minutes is very unusual for me though. As for the eye contact, I think he was anxious about the ending. He knows how hard it is for me when the session is unresolved.

We started off by T saying how long I had seen him for therapy, he said about five. I told him that it was actually almost 6 years in September. Of course, now I am worried about he was hinting that he wanted to get rid of me. I hate my brain. If I text him, and I probably will he is going to tell me that no, he wasn't hinting. T is going away on a cruise in September, so I asked him if I needed a fill-in T while he was gone. He told me that I could email him. He so kind and generous. So, now the problem of me worrying if I can contact him or not is solved, I now am worried about what I am allowed to write. I guess I need to talk to him about this. Really, the last thing I want is to bother him on vacation. But I trust him to not overextend himself and then get angry with me.

T told me that last week I talked about how I was worried about how I might say something to make him leave (or terminate, I guess). I went through a very intense time in the past month. Sometimes I feel like I am tempting fate, and that issue is an example. I wonder if a part of me is trying to push T away, but it is only a guess. I am SOOOO confused and at this time I want to keep any chance of abandonment far, far away from me. I think I am building an inner barricade. T went through his schedule book and booked me for extra days until he leaves on his adventure. I feel afraid and a bit confused sometimes. So, I think it was a good session.

T today. Intense as always.

Me: I hate you

T: How come?

Me: You unearthed all of these deep wounds and long buried memories and I don’t know what to do with them.

T: You’re right. I’ve unlocked the box. I’ve arrogantly asked you to trust me and then I leave you alone for the rest of the week. It’s like I’m working against you.

Me: So why are you?

T: I don’t mean to. I’m here to support you. Part of that support is leading us to very uncomfortable territories. Unfortunately, doing that also means that these heavy emotions will linger. They will seep into other parts of your life. I’m sorry.

Me: I’m just not sure how to handle these things

T: You don’t have to do it alone. We can figure out a way where you feel supported even when you are not in this room.

Me: I wouldn’t want to be a bother

T: Em, during our very first session, I agreed to help you through this. I bear part of the responsibility for your safety, progress and healing. We ask a lot from each other. I ask you to be vulnerable every week, and you ask me to help you through that. I intend to keep my end of the deal. Will you?

Me: I can try.

T: That’s all I ask.

Me: I still hate you

T: That’s fair.

I like your T, Em.
You can still hate him, though.

Thanks! I do generally like him a lot. We work well together. But I really hate him right now! I’m just glad he doesn’t get defensive (so far) when I call him out on things.

My most recent session was pretty packed because it had been several weeks.

I started by talking about being so raw talking about my dream in the last session that I'd wanted to curl up in a ball on the floor and cry. But I'd just started talking about something else instead. She told me that if that happened, she would just sit with me and be a witness. And I know that, I told her I know that because she's done that with me, and I even understand it from the other side because I have had the opportunity to sit with grieving weeping people and been the witness. But I just couldn't let myself go, I don't know why.

We talked about the dream, and the deep grief it brought up, and from that the conversation wound around to the future. That if...when...I do form a new relationship, I will choose wisely, and that it will be balanced because (she said) I am good in relationship. She told me she believes that I am a person who is meant to be in relationship with another person, that it is a part of who I am. My gut felt this coming from a place of seeing clearly (rather than a place of "think positive!"-shudder) and I think she sees a piece of me that feels damaged but has potential to be healing.

We talked about the practical and emotional pieces of me being on the fence about continuing to live separated from my kids' dad but in the same home. The feeling of being at a crossroads. The goal of stability has been met, but I have been so focused on that piece that I am suddenly at a loss for what's next.

A little about living an unconventional choice, and that more families are choosing to live unconventionally. Lots of questions to bring out, not necessarily to answer but acknowledge: Does this continue to be functional? How do I live joyfully and completely? We touched on...hard to articulate this one succinctly, I think the question for me is...where is the balance between healing in place and being faced with the shadows daily?

Trusting my inner voice. If I don't quite know what to do right now, maybe it's not time to decide. That I will know when it is time. We talked about patience and anxiety and control.

As we were wrapping up, I don't know what I said that she was responding to, she said, "You don't want to rock the boat." And it was just a descriptive comment, but it hit me in such a tender spot, one of those "Ooh" recognition spots, and I teared up. I joked, "Shuddup," but then I said, "I don't. I don't want it to rock. I am so tired. I just want to rest."

At the end, I said, "I wonder sometimes why I still come here," but that I think it's because I don't have to put on my cheery can-do, it'll all work out face. I can say I don't know what to do and be uncertain and cry about it. She said, "You'll know when it's time to stop coming to therapy too. You'll just know it. And we'll be done, and we'll never see each other again." I nodded, and then we ended.

New thread is here https://forums.psychcentral.com/psyc...ml#post6235086