[Echos Myron redux]

I am worried that something is going on between me and T that is going to end in me leaving. For the first time ever I feel like he's not aware of how different he's being and he's not reflecting. I've been so used to his being so self-reflective that i dont know what to do with this. I am totally split between the parts of me that want to totally ignore it (the young parts that feel like I need to preserve the relationship to survive) and the parts of me saying "this isn't right, what's going on?"
All with a break coming up too. I really don't know what to do with all of this inner conflict.
For background I have been seeing him for 3.5 years and he's always been wonderfully self-reflective, non-defensive and honest. Just recently he's been a lot less receptive to talking about the relationship. Its weird and out of character but he doesn't seem to see it. He's not denying my perception he just seems confused by it.

[wheeler]

You already know you're going to have to talk to him about it. My T always reminds me that perceptions aren't always reality.

Good luck

[ElectricManatee]

I find that confusing, stressful, somewhat unpredictable stuff pops up in the therapeutic relationship right before and right after therapy breaks. I/we try to do all sorts of stuff to work through it or prevent it, but it still happens. I would encourage you not to make any big decisions about staying or leaving right now and instead focus on what you need to get through the break. It seems entirely possible that your T will go back to being/seeming like his usual reflective self after he's back and you have both settled in again.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

I find that confusing, stressful, somewhat unpredictable stuff pops up in the therapeutic relationship right before and right after therapy breaks. I/we try to do all sorts of stuff to work through it or prevent it, but it still happens. I would encourage you not to make any big decisions about staying or leaving right now and instead focus on what you need to get through the break. It seems entirely possible that your T will go back to being/seeming like his usual reflective self after he's back and you have both settled in again.

I really hope it is the break. I asked him to write me a letter as a kind of transitional object and I think he might be overthinking it. He told me he would give it to me last session, but then last session he said he hadn't finished it so will give me it before he goes away. I wonder if that's difficult for him? I wish I knew because the not knowing is sending me into a bit of a tail spin.

[atisketatasket]

That does seem very unlike him, especially to agree with your perception but not address it. I’m sorry, it must be painful.

I think though you guys have been at least briefly misattuned before and he’s always come through in the end? Maybe trust that he will do it again—he seems like a mensch to me.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

That does seem very unlike him, especially to agree with your perception but not address it. I’m sorry, it must be painful.

I think though you guys have been at least briefly misattuned before and he’s always come through in the end? Maybe trust that he will do it again—he seems like a mensch to me.

Thanks atat. He will never deny my perceptions because he is aware that some stuff happens outside of his awareness and he says I am perceptive so he trusts my view of things even if he can't see it. That's what he always says. One difficulty is that I can't spot this stuff in the moment, I go away thinking "hang on, he totally avoided that" and then by next session neither of us are in that moment and can't figure out what was happening. The fact that he doesn't know anything is amiss until I raise it is frustrating, especially because it then happens again and I don't spot it until after. It's been a cycle recently.
Yeah we have been misattuned before and resolved it. I guess this just seems to be going on for ages. It reminds me slightly of when I left T1 because that was all about frustration at not having a voice over transference.
I had to look "mensch" up, but that's totally what he is. Thanks.

[ruh roh]

Yeah, I would give him a chance to check in with himself and then talk about his side of it. He has always been a little plodding and vague until he figures it out for himself, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I would bring this up at the top of the hour next session and shake it loose from him because at that point, he needs to really say something about what's going on and not leave you in this state of knowing there's a difference but not what or why. For anyone who's had a parent with mental illness, or who is abusive, the not knowing, but sensing, can be hell. We need something solid to grab hold of, even if it's not good news, otherwise, our minds will imagine the worst. He owes it to you not to leave you in that state before your separation.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

For anyone who's had a parent with mental illness, or who is abusive, the not knowing, but sensing, can be hell. We need something solid to grab hold of, even if it's not good news, otherwise, our minds will imagine the worst. He owes it to you not to leave you in that state before your separation.

I think you have hit the crux of it here. I am sure this central to my childhood experiences in ways I have no way to access due to the impact on me at the time. My mother was variously inpatient, outpatient, high, erratic, missing... And I can only remember one single thing that happened with her before the age of 9 or 10 that wasn't a happy memory. Like I've blanked all of the stuff except one life changing incident (TW traumatic memory)

Possible trigger:

finding her unconscious, on my own, with a fractured skull due to falling down the stairs drunk when I was 5 years old

So yeah when he responds in a way I don't fully understand it probably triggers all of those safety warning lights from memories I don't even consciously remember. I must remember to say that to him. And yes I should bring it up right at the start. Thanks ruh roh.

My mother was variously inpatient, outpatient, high, erratic, missing

For the first time ever I feel like he's not aware of how different he's being and he's not reflecting.

Seems like these are reflections of the same experience with different people. What is happening for you (regardless of what might be happening for him) which contributes to this feeling of being missed? And more importantly, can he help you pay attention to it?

[rainbow8]

I think ruh roh gave you excellent advice. I'm sorry you had to witness your mother in that condition when you were 5. What a traumatic incident for a child.

I hope that discussing your feelings again will bring your T and you back to a good place!

This may be irrelevant to your situation but I've been noticing my T not being conducive to talking about our relationship lately. I asked her last session if it's because things are good between us now. She said yes, you have a secure connection with me so we don't have to talk about it. I never thought about it like that.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by long_gone

Seems like these are reflections of the same experience with different people. What is happening for you (regardless of what might be happening for him) which contributes to this feeling of being missed? And more importantly, can he help you pay attention to it?

Thanks, I'm glad you have brought these two quotes together because seeing them next to each other resonates. I think he can get a hold on this, and I can too, we've always been such a good team in the past. This thread is really helping me to make sense of why this is so scary and unsettling for me.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I think ruh roh gave you excellent advice. I'm sorry you had to witness your mother in that condition when you were 5. What a traumatic incident for a child.

I hope that discussing your feelings again will bring your T and you back to a good place!

This may be irrelevant to your situation but I've been noticing my T not being conducive to talking about our relationship lately. I asked her last session if it's because things are good between us now. She said yes, you have a secure connection with me so we don't have to talk about it. I never thought about it like that.

Thanks rainbow, yes it was bad. She was in a coma for 13 days and when I visited her in hospital she told me she didn't know who I was.

I'm glad you managed to talk about it with your T and that she was able to give an explanation. I guess what I need to resolve with my T is why we're not perceiving it the same way. But most of me trusts we can and this thread is bolstering my trust in our relationship.

[circlesincircles]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron (again)

Thanks rainbow, yes it was bad. She was in a coma for 13 days and when I visited her in hospital she told me she didn't know who I was.

This seems especially poignant. In addition to the trauma of finding your mom and her being unresponsive for such a long time, for her to say she didn't know who you were sounds devastating. And also confusing as hell for a 5-year-old.

Feeling like your therapist isn't seeing you properly right now, especially ahead of a break, sounds really painful.

I wonder too if there isn't something going on for him that's getting in the way of his usual reflective capacity. When I've called her out, my therapist has acknowledged on a couple of occasions when she hadn't really been present. Knowing the overview of why that might have been for reasons that had nothing to do with me was reassuring.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by circlesincircles

This seems especially poignant. In addition to the trauma of finding your mom and her being unresponsive for such a long time, for her to say she didn't know who you were sounds devastating. And also confusing as hell for a 5-year-old.

Feeling like your therapist isn't seeing you properly right now, especially ahead of a break, sounds really painful.

I wonder too if there isn't something going on for him that's getting in the way of his usual reflective capacity. When I've called her out, my therapist has acknowledged on a couple of occasions when she hadn't really been present. Knowing the overview of why that might have been for reasons that had nothing to do with me was reassuring.

Thanks. I think it was confusing and upsetting though I can't really connect to any feelings about that.

I asked him last week whether anything was going on outside that might be impacting. He said nothing of major significance was happening. He said a couple of minor things were going on but he'd be "very surprised" if they were impacting on him in session. I do believe him on that because he always tries to affirm my perceptions if he can. It sort of brings the focus back to what is happening in the room and now I am thinking "what has changed there?" Nothing significant springs to mind.

[circlesincircles]

I guess it's good to be able to rule his distraction out. Hopefully he's good with holding space for you to explore further what's happening. And to hear your distress about the lack of clarity.

[Favorite Jeans]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I think ruh roh gave you excellent advice. I'm sorry you had to witness your mother in that condition when you were 5. What a traumatic incident for a child.

I hope that discussing your feelings again will bring your T and you back to a good place!

This may be irrelevant to your situation but I've been noticing my T not being conducive to talking about our relationship lately. I asked her last session if it's because things are good between us now. She said yes, you have a secure connection with me so we don't have to talk about it. I never thought about it like that.

Dude. I think this is really a thing and it shouldn't be. A secure connection is not like a finish line that you cross and then you're home free, it's an ongoing process. We need to attend to our relationships and our T's should model this by stepping up to take care of their relationships with us. Especially when we've brought a concern to their attention.

EM I totally relate to you. I'm going through a similar thing with my T and finding it really painful. The most adult and rational part of me is constantly needing to remind myself that she's only human and has blind spots and is prone to messing up as we all are, while the neediest part of me is ready to give up on her for neglecting me so badly. I find it shreds me to talk about it with her partly because her confidence in the strength of our relationship or her knowledge of me makes her less on her game, less anxious, less focussed, less attentive, than she was when we didn't know each other as well.

Definitely unconscious stuff going on. Give it time. More. Will be revealed.

[Echos Myron redux]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

Dude. I think this is really a thing and it shouldn't be. A secure connection is not like a finish line that you cross and then you're home free, it's an ongoing process. We need to attend to our relationships and our T's should model this by stepping up to take care of their relationships with us. Especially when we've brought a concern to their attention.

EM I totally relate to you. I'm going through a similar thing with my T and finding it really painful. The most adult and rational part of me is constantly needing to remind myself that she's only human and has blind spots and is prone to messing up as we all are, while the neediest part of me is ready to give up on her for neglecting me so badly. I find it shreds me to talk about it with her partly because her confidence in the strength of our relationship or her knowledge of me makes her less on her game, less anxious, less focussed, less attentive, than she was when we didn't know each other as well.

The other strange thing is that my inner dialogue tells me that it's my rational part wanting to leave. My detatch part is very good at appearing rational and balanced. I suppose that's how I managed to be a little adult when I was small. Trouble is, it makes it too easy to follow the detach part when I can't differentiate between that and a rational part.