In Session Today: Part V

Another gloriously executed argument and further dysfunctional mess floats to the surface.

T yesterday. Background: I'd done my first 5K over the weekend and sent T a brief email Saturday to tell him how I'd done. Wasn't looking for anything more than a "good job!" or "congrats!" in response (if anything at all), but hadn't heard anything back as of Monday morning. And this bothered me a bit (he's always said something within 24 hours, even if it was the weekend--and he's never not replied to an email). Then I was annoyed with myself for caring because it wasn't an important email. I'd planned to address it with him. Then T ended up emailing me back a half hour before our session, which I saw shortly before it. So I was conflicted on whether to bring it up.

T retrieved me, went back and sat down (he was in his Super Mario socks--and other clothing, of course!), usual comment on weather (rainy). T: "So how are you, Miss 5K?" I smiled. I filled him in on how the race had gone, with various details. I then mentioned that I'd been happy with my time, until I saw the results and learned I'd come in last. T said how I should think of it as that I'm competing with myself, not the other runners/walkers. Talked a bunch more about walking and running--somehow skiing ended up in there, too.

Session was going well, he was being very warm with me, and I debated whether to bring up the email. But I knew I had to. I said I hoped I hadn't bothered him with the email, that I just wanted to tell him a positive thing. How I saw he'd just written back this morning and thanks, but I guess I thought he'd have said something sooner, even though I knew it was the weekend. Like I didn't expect anything more than just "good job!" or "congrats!" just a couple words. But since he didn't reply then, wasn't sure if it was OK to send.

T: "I don't really check or reply to emails that often on weekends." Me: "Oh...OK, but I thought..." T: "I mean, sometimes on the weekend, I'll go 12-16 hours without even looking at my email." Me: "oh, OK. See, I always have my email open." T: "I'd find that stressful." Me: "It's just what I do." T: "And I usually will only reply on the weekend to something that's more urgent. Or if it's scheduling, like if you'd emailed to say, 'Session is at 9:30 Monday, right?' to confirm, of course I'd reply to that." Me: "Oh, OK. I don't think I realized that. I guess when I didn't hear back..." T: "You felt ignored?" Me: "Yeah, I guess. Even though it was this really minor positive thing, not like I was in crisis or something. And I also tried to title it so it was obvious that it was positive and not urgent." T: "I read your email much earlier than I responded to it." Me: "Oh."

Talked about some other stuff, then ended up going back to the email. I said I struggled with whether to even bring it up. T: "It sounds like you have a mix of feelings about it, like it bothers you that I didn't reply, but then you feel bad for feeling that way." Me: "Yeah, kinda like that. Like I shouldn't be having those feelings. Because it wasn't even an important email." T: "It's OK to have whatever feelings you have." Me: "Or at least if I'm having those feelings, then I shouldn't share them with you." T: "It's OK to share them with me. I mean, I don't feel guilty." Me: "I wasn't expecting you to." T: "OK."

I said how I'd shared stuff with the race with H, then on Facebook. And how I got a bunch of likes and positive comments on there. How that should have been enough for me. That I had debated whether to share with T as well. T: "Why do you think that wasn't enough for you?" Me: "I don't know...I was awake in the middle of the night last night and thinking...I mean, I know the authority figure thing, but I wonder if it could partly be that you're an athlete?" T: "Do you think you'd have had the same desire to share it with ex-MC?" Me: "I really don't know..."

Me: "Because...I mean, I've pretty much been bad at any athletic endeavor I tried. So it would mean more if you said something positive to me than just some random person. Then again, it's not like you'd probably say, 'Wow, your time sucked!'" T: "Yeah, that would have been pretty rude." Me: "I mean, you wouldn't say something like that to me as your client. Or even probably to your friends or family." So...I don't know. I mean, I'm just thinking the athlete thing because I felt like I gave more weight to 'likes' and comments on my post from people who were runners or otherwise athletic." T: "Well, positive comments from someone who is an expert in the field always mean more." Me: "Yeah."

I talked more about what had led me to email him. How I felt really good after the race about my time, then when I got home and looked up the times and saw I was last (and an 80-year-old woman was in the race), I started to feel bad about myself. And the Facebook comments weren't enough. I didn't share that I was in last place there. T: "Why not? I'm sure they would have been just as supportive then." Me: "I don't know...I guess for some reason I just wanted to hear some kind of affirmation from you. Even though, I mean, I know it was the weekend..." T: "Well, that's one of the limitations of our relationship." Me: "Oh." T: "I'm not your friend." Me: "...I know that...I..."

I said I was concerned he'd be bothered by all my expectations of him. That he'd be annoyed with me that I wanted those things. T: "I'm not annoyed at all." Me: "OK. Because I understand that you need the work-life balance. I think it makes you a better therapist." T: "Thank you." Me: "Because I don't really feel ex-MC had that..." I forget what he said there, but he didn't seem to disagree. Me: "I mean, I understand that you're a father, so you need time with your son, and...uh, you're a husband so you need time with your wife, and..."

In a lighter moment of session, we briefly ended up on topic of contact while he's out of town. T: "Even when I'm traveling, I can pretty much always check email in the mornings unless...say, my phone gets eaten by a snake." Me: "That would be during your trip to the Amazon?" T: "I guess it would take a pretty big snake!" Me: "Then the snake would be ringing and buzzing and stuff..."

Was end of session. Confirmed for Thursday, scheduled for following week. Paid, he stood up and shook my hand (I noticed it was sweatier than usual), saying "Good luck out there!" Me: "Thanks. Uh, you too!"

Felt OK after session, but then started thinking more about the "I'm not your friend" comment and a couple other things. Sent him an email, mentioning that I kept thinking about the "I'm not your friend" comment, since it made me think of ex-T yelling "I can't be your mother or your friend!" And how I was working on trusting him more (to be honest if something I did bothered him) and learning to reassure myself, but that it was a long process, and I just wanted him to bear with me. He replied this morning saying he figured I might have that reaction to his friend comment and apologizing for it. He shared a good insight about how I view relationships. Then some reassurance in the last line of his email: "As a reminder - I'm not going anywhere; you're not 'too much' and I intend on 'bearing with you.'" Which made me tear up.

LT
Very nice reply at the end.... but I do understand why he wants space from work/emails on weekends... and I agree with him that I would be super stressed with my email always open.
I also agree that the race should be about you and the fact that YOU did it... that's the big thing.

Sounds like a good session, you at least got things out you needed to and ya the friend limitations suck but it is what all of us have to deal with, sadly

I at least like that he reassured you so nicely.. so try to remember that, and look back on the email often, if you find yourself in a bad or scary place.

Thanks, DP. I do think this will be a good email to look back on when I'm feeling insecure about him.

Both of you handled it very well, imo.

"ive been waiting for a man like you to come into my life."

Someone to help you bear it. Someone in your corner, like in a boxing match. Doesnt shield you from the punches, but squirts water in your face and has a towel for you? Idk exactly what they do, but thats how i came to think of my t, someone in MY corner, someone there for me. Someone in my pocket, like my social security card. Not valid for ID, and it doesnt buy you stuff, but it still MEANS something. Mostly that it takes your money and promises you something in the future, but hey. speaking from the future, its priceless.

Good Job LT for bringing up something that bothered you and sticking through with the conversation. That can be difficult. And great job too with the 5K. You did it! You completed it! Kit

Thanks, Una. (Though no thanks for getting that song in my head!) That's an interesting analogy with the boxing...trainer? Coach? Kinda makes some sense. And like the SS card, my T certainly takes my money! But I feel he's worth it, at least for now, even in the moments he upsets me.

Thanks, Kit, on both of those! I do find I'm doing better talking about difficult stuff with this T, both with the therapeutic relationship and in my outside life. Maybe that's partly about how he is as a T, partly my trusting him and our relationship more, and/or some growth on my part. Most likely a mix of those.

Yeah, i dont have a cadillac or a bmw or a cabin up north, but my ts do.

I admit I did feel better when my T recently said he drives a Prius. Ex-MC and I think ex-T as well had Audis. And ex-T (her H is a retired T) lives in a (presumably, based on the town) nice house on the water and has a boat.

ETA: When I first started seeing my T, I figured he had some flashy sportscar. But as I've gotten to know him better, the Prius makes sense (especially as he's expressed concerns about the environment).

I went in and he said "you had a good weekend then?" I said yes. He asked what it was like to meet an online friend I hadn't met before. I said we had a fantastic day and told him about the things we had done and that it felt very natural to me.
I said my whole weekend was good and I want to tell him but I don't. He said what's the 'don't'. I sighed and said "why didn't you put hi echos on your email?" I said that it seemed like he couldn't be bothered to respond to my email, in which case he didn't have to. I said I was annoyed with him. He said he maybe was distracted. I said exactly. It's like you quickly wrote it in the commercial break. It was a Sunday night, if you don't want to email back, just don't.
He said he was sorry that his response had annoyed me. I said it's okay.

I said I was worried that he felt weird about me meeting his ex T. I said that email, coupled with something he had said at the end of last session made me wonder if he found it weird, and that I didn't want him to respond weirdly to me talking about it because I would find that difficult.

I talked in general terms about my feelings about the weekend and the people I met. I also talked about anger a bit from a theoretical perspective and he asked whether he makes room for my anger towards him. I said "I don't think I make room for it myself" and then I said "So are you going to tell me what your builder said?"

He said his builder was a bit sketchy about dates, but that it would take two days. He asked if I had thought about it more. I said "of course I have". I said that I would be okay with it but I would need to know exactly where in the house I would be going, I would need there to be no family photos and I would need to know how we would manage his wife arriving home. T said that he was thinking we could use his conservatory (sun room) as it has its own door and there are blinds all around for privacy. He said there are no family photos in there. I said that suited me perfectly and I was pleased with that idea.
My eyes were going funny. I said they often do that when we talk about the relationship. He asked whether there are any feelings attached to it. I said I think it's instead of feelings. He asked me to try and get in touch with the feelings.

I said I feel sad that you're keeping me separate from the house, even though it's what I want. He talked about the two strands, the happy about the arrangement and the sad, and said he wondered if they stem from the same place or thing. I said I think the happy about the arrangement part exists to counterbalance the part that wants to go in his house and see family photos. I think it's actually defensive, to protect me from rejection/exclusion.

I said it's funny because I can let myself be in loving feelings towards him, but I still have trouble being in sadness with him. He asked if I am just allowing myself to be in it now. I nodded. A couple of minutes passed and I smiled, he said what. I said "I just had a fantasy of your wife walking in, and me telling her to f*** off.". I said that suggests there is anger there too, but I suspect it is not at her. He asked if it was at him. I said I don't think it is anything to do with him. I talked a bit about my mother's secrecy, and how I would push her to tell me things I really shouldn't know because I couldn't bear her whispering.

I showed him the results of the PC poll I made and as I did I said offhandedly, "I wrote on this thread I'm not envious of your wife, but I am a little bit envious of your kids. I know I said I wasn't but I am a bit". I notice I said it in a way where we were doing something else so he couldn't really respond to that.

He said "We have 10 minutes left and I notice we haven't spoken about your experience of [my ex T]" He said I might not want to, and that's fine, but he wanted to give me the opportunity if I wanted to. I think I was waiting for his permission.

I told him that I think his ex T is adorable. He laughed. I said he was just a lovely man and he nodded. I told him that I told his ex T that my T had been wondering how he is, and that his ex T said to tell my T that he is good.
I showed him a picture of a few of us sat around talking and laughing. T said "He looks well".

I stood up and he hugged me really strongly. It felt so nice. I said "that felt really good" and he smiled. We said goodbye and off I went.

My T has a 10 year old Audi.

My former T drove a Honda. My PDOC drives a Subaru.

First, we discussed that I am still constantly scared. T suggested I get blood work done so we can try out some meds, probably SSRIs at first. He went over side effects as well as how it should help and what part it would play in therapy if I decided to go for meds. He also made sure to point out repeatedly that they might not work, given that not everyone with BPD shows improvement of the symptoms the meds should treat. I was fine with that discussion, nothing was really news.

Then we talked about me visiting my grandparents on Monday. We discussed how I could argue back against things they say, rather than just ignore and accept them. How even if they don't agree with something I say in front of them right away, they might discuss it afterwards and it will at least partly stick with them. We talked about this a whole lot, but I don't feel like going into it right now.

Then, we shortly discussed that I'll be gone Friday in a week for job interviews. T mentioned that he'd be gone a week after that, which means I might have two weeks of only one session instead of two. That will kind of suck, but it sounds doable.

my T drives a old, beat up Subaru.

TW for brief fire metaphor in text.





I had an odd session today. I began by telling R that I had been reflecting on her question ‘Do you feel a disconnect from your emotions?’ and realised that I have created a disconnect from my emotions so that I do not have to feel them.
R wondered whether this was a recent development, and if I was similar before.

‘It always catches me by surprise when I express emotion.’
‘What do you mean by that? Are you talking about crying?’
‘Yes. When I cry, I feel a lot of shame. I haven’t yet worked out why.’
I mentioned that I am struggling with the magnitude of it, although ‘most people’ would not be as affected by it as I have been.
We talked about similarities and differences between the two experiences again, and the pertinent point that I was not overloaded with information regarding Chris’ illness until Jonathan provided updates. I mentioned that I felt there may have been some agreement between Chris and our mutual friend that I did not need to know everything. In contrast, with the other situation I was bombarded. I mentioned that I did not have boundaries at that time to be able to intervene. There were many moments, and yet it is January 2011 that sticks and repeats. Another conversation ensued about the extent of the nights and lack of control.
R said that she was struck by the way I talk with acceptance about Chris’ illness and death, although it is obviously painful. She wondered whether there is a physiological aspect to my sleep issues, in that the body gets used to certain things.


Our closing conversation revolved around the fact that it can become comfortable to analyse things, but R senses that there is somewhere I fear to go. She asked me to consider what is the worst that could happen, and try to articulate what that fear is. She understands that it may take some time for me to feel safe again due to the break. She wants me to know that she will not make me go there, but we can go there together.

You shut me down again. I know I don’t have the right to speak and certainly no right to any compassion, thanks t. . I know you said i turn people off .. you didn’t even say what I keep doing wrong. You just shower me with cruel words to make me feel lower than you are, you snake

Quote:
" T: "Well, that's one of the limitations of our relationship." Me: "Oh." T: "I'm not your friend." Me: "...I know that...I..."
LT I loved this post because it captures the moment of hitting up against a boundary , and getting jolted almost out of the normal rapport. Then, there's the relief of reconnecting, of hearing yes that boundary was set very firmly, but it is in no way a harbinger of things falling apart.

My T parks in a specific lot that is a walk to his building, and the clients ( me too) park on the city street. Bc of that, I don't know what he drives even after all this time. He is very secretive in the old school psychoanalyst way. I also don't think he knows what car I drive either.

Monday's session with T went okay. I told him that I've been recovering all weekend from this evil cold I've had. He said he could still hear it in my voice. We talked about my autoimmune disease and I educated him about my lack of immune system. He laughed and said that I bet I didn't think I'd be teaching him about that stuff. It was really okay, I don't mind talking about that. We talked about how I had MC on the Sunday before, and how I felt like it was a crap session because our T was late and let us out early. I talked about how my H was blaming me for seeing my Magic Men (look it up if you don't know but want to. I go every year for my birthday). At one point in the session I had a coughing fit that wouldn't stop so I got up to go to the waiting room for water and came back. That felt weird to me because I do things so routinely...come in and sit down the same way, get up and leave the same way. When I came back I felt disconnected from what we were previously talking about. T asked me if it hurt to talk, told him no, it's just this lingering crap. He reminded me that we're not meeting on Friday this week and we ended it with see you on Wednesday.

I want to hear more about this.

Wednesday's session was a little more weird for me. I've been on edge all day and told him that and started talking about H and how I'm upset with him with how he treats me. Also told him I had some SI on Monday night but didn't want to talk more about it. Somewhere along in my conversation I said I talk to my cousin aboht my H but I try to talk about other things with her too so its not always about H. He asked if I feel like that in therapy, where the conversations get focused on H. I said yes, and he said he notices it too. He said something about how he plays a role in letting me lead the conversation when I come in, and how it usually always goes straight to talking about H. He said he's not criticizing, just that it's an observation and how much H is negatively affecting me. He asked me if there's other things that I would talk about if H wasn't an issue, and I said my kids, father and H are my biggest stressors. Things like my self esteem and self harm are pushed to the back. It was closer to the end of session by then so he reminded me again about Friday and asked how I think the rest of the week will be for me. Told him I hope to keep busy with my kids and cleaning, how I am trying to do activities with them like trunk or treats and such this week while they're out of school for fall break. He told me that's part of what makes me a good mom. Said let's stop there and see him Monday.

My T doesn't think that I am ready to talk about a traumatic event, that I will retraumatize myself. That pisses me off; I LIVED through the effin' thing, but I'm not strong enough to TALK about it? So I focus on my breathing, trust the process, trust the process, trust the process, grit my teeth, trust the process...

(super long, tbh mostly writing this for myself because I always forget details after a while)

I asked him what he thought I heard from him Monday
he said we talked about a lot of things, asked me to specify
I said it was about my father
He wasn't sure. Reminded me that mind reading is a cognitive distortion. He didn't want to guess, he wanted me to just tell him.
I was silent for like 30 seconds. Then I said "I told you that it mattered to me."
He asked what it was that he'd said that upset me. I said it was what he didn't say.
I reminded him that the whole subject had come up because I talked about having walked out of a recovery meeting because some father was talking about being an "authoritarian" and it sounded more to me like his kid was hurt and angry (the guy was a prick sober, I can't imagine he was any nicer drunk) and the father was just trying to punish his son into obedience. He even admitted to frequently losing his temper and sometimes storming off to drink. But everyone else in the room took his story at face value, agreed with him, told him that kids these days don't get enough discipline, their parents punishing them had made them better, etc (well you're in a meeting for people with substance abuse issues, so clearly you didn't turn out that well adjusted).
I know my father's side of the story sounds a lot like that. I was just acting out, a rebellious teenager, he was trying to instill discipline and obedience and respect, etc.
And if my father had been in that room they would have been telling him he was doing the right thing.
No one in the room asked if the kid might be hurt. No one asked why the kid might be acting out. No one questioned whether the kid might have the right to be angry.

I told T this Monday, then said I needed to know whether it was unacceptable/wrong/abusive and he gave some BS answer about caring about my feelings and how it affected me, not that question.

I told him this today. I told him his answer was the kind of answer you give to someone who's overreacting and blowing things out of proportion but you don't want to invalidate their feelings. He said we could talk about these things, if I want to know if he thinks those things he wants me to ask. I told him I could't ask a direct yes or no question like that because I couldn't handle a yes.
He said if he'd said yes I could have set the record straight, explained what it had been like and why it wasn't overreacting. I told him that if he'd said yes I wouldn't have done that. I would have doubted myself. That no one who hadn't lived with my father or experienced his rage believed it was that bad.
He said that he'd had many patients in abusive situations that no one outside of the situation would have known about, like a father who was a judge, and after a pause I said "or a well-respected mathematician" (my father).T said "yes."

He said I'd told him that my father would get inches away from my face and yell and wave his arms around and be physically intimidating and I couldn't get away. He said that sounded wrong to him, that my father could have calmly addressed the behavior that had upset him.
I told him that they weren't even things I had done wrong. Like my brother and I would get in an argument, my father would completely blame me, and then when I tried to defend myself and explain what had happened my father would get angry about "disrespect" and "disobedience."
T said that eventually I must have learned that nothing I would say would change my father's mind, that I wasn't going to convince him. I shook my head and told him that I never stopped arguing back. That there may have been instances where I decided it wasn't worth it, but there was never a point after which I stopped standing up for myself. That it wasn't fair or right. That my brother used to beg me to just placate my father because he hated us fighting, but that I wouldn't.
He said "good for you" and sounded genuinely surprised and impressed.
Then asked me where that voice that stood up for myself and defended myself was when I was being cruel to myself. I told him only I'm allowed to hurt me.
He said that's what we're working on changing.

He asked me, to the best of my recollection, on a scale of 1-10 how scared I was of my father when he went into those rages. I told him that I don't think I was scared. That I wanted to run away and hide, but there wasn't anything to fear. That my father never hit me. That I'd wished he would so I wouldn't have to go back.
He asked if I had nightmares or flashbacks. I said no. I did tell him about the dream I'd had where my father called my ex-T and he'd managed to convince her of how reasonable he was and she told me about this and that she now "understood" the situation and believed my father's version and that I had just been an unruly teen.
I'd told ex-T about this and she'd assured me that that would never happen, and she wouldn't take a phone call from my father but even if she did speak to him she wouldn't believe him. That nothing he could say would convince her. That she believed me.
I told T that, while there had been egregious boundary issues and all of that, that that was something I'd really needed to hear at the time and that it had meant a lot.

I told him that I hated the smell of toasted almonds, because when my father was drunk late at night he would toast almonds and often fight with my mom and I'd hear them screaming downstairs. And because he was drunk he'd often forget about the almonds and burn them and I could smell them.

I told him that I hadn't necessarily been scared of going to my father's house, but there was this overwhelming sense of dread. That, as I'd told him before, I would SH in the days leading up to it to cope with the feelings. That it had been self-soothing and about escaping my thoughts, not about hurting myself. T said that that says something about the situation, that I was 13 and using SH to cope with those things.

He asked if my father called me names/said bad things about me. I said no. That my father had sometimes criticized my academic performance and then blamed my mom for me not doing better. That I'd had a 2.6 GPA in high school and only got into a mediocre state school for undergrad. And when I told my father about my acceptance straight from undergrad into one of the top PhD programs for my field (a week after I told everyone else, ha!) his response had been to put down my undergrad institution and to say he'd always known that I could do better. And that my response had basically been a "**** you," my undergrad is the reason I am where I am today, and I would not have done well or gotten the research experience that I did if I'd gone to an R1. My father said that wouldn't have mattered if I'd had Berkeley or a school like that on my transcript. And I took delight in telling him that our program rejects plenty of applicants from Berkeley, including ones with better GPAs than I had.
T said I'd really internalized my father's beliefs. I noted that I'd never agreed with my father or cared about his opinion of me, and yet I really had internalized his beliefs. T said it was weird how that works.

I told T that logically I can remind myself that my mother is still super damaged by her relationship with my father, and that my brother hasn't spoken to my father since we graduated high school 6 years ago and used to regularly have breakdowns about having to go to my father's house. So that meant it wasn't just me who experienced this with my father.

At some point T asked me about my reactions to my father, like the dread and SH and all that, and asked what that told me about the situation (clearly looking for the answer that it really was bad). And I looked up at him and smirked and said "that I was weak?" T laughed and said he should have known that that would be my answer.

We talked about the fact that I hadn't SHed, even when I was really upset about this. I told him that I'd seriously considered it, but I didn't. Not because I thought I'd regret it, but because that would make it easier the next time, and the time after that, until eventually I'd be ending up in the ER again.
T said he admired that I resisted the urges and how difficult it must have been.
He asked me about challenging my own beliefs. Whether in those moments I heard his voice in my head. I told him that the times I did think about him I was either angry at him for not truly understanding and trying to get me to do this recovery stuff, or I was convincing myself that he didn't really care and hated me and I'd be doing him a favor if I just gave up. He said there had to be some part of me that knew that wasn't true though. I said yes, but that it felt really true.
That all these hurtful thoughts I direct towards myself feel really true. That in the moment really truly feeling like you're a bad and weak person who deserves to suffer is not pleasant. He kind of gently/seriously acknowledged that that must be really painful.

He wants me to work on believing that I matter. Said that some part of me has to believe that because I'm there working with him for a reason. I joked that the reason I was there was to have an excuse to take the afternoon off from work. Then I said I did want to feel better, but there was a lot of internal conflict about it. He said he knew that.

He said some stuff about eventually empowering myself, not believing those things about myself, etc. I told him that part of me liked beating myself up, that it was comfortable and safe. That it let me feel sorry for myself. He asked if that was what I really wanted and I said yes. I told him that I was worried everyone would stop caring. He asked me what I'd say to someone else, pointed out the people who care about me, and said it might be a different kind of caring or I might experience it differently when I let myself believe that I deserve it.

I mentioned at the end that this was my last scheduled appointment. We scheduled for Tues and Fri next week because I have seminar on Monday afternoons starting next week. He didn't even ask whether I still wanted two appointments, he just kind of assumed. Which made me feel better.

I love that story. You might like this song: