In Session Today: Part V

I appreciate that you shared this story. It has many dynamics that I think many people can relate to, including that this kind of non-physical child abuse can be very harmful. It's certainly harmful to the relationship between the parent and the child; people who think that parenting is all about "obedience" and that children need to be terrorized or threatened into good behavior. And there is ample research evidence that emotional abuse in childhood is harmful to the child as well. I was listening to a court hearing not long ago as part of a courtwatch community project (local judge elections coming up). A man testified that he was trying to teach his children to be good people and the judge looked at him when announcing her decision that he would get no visitation with his children and said if he wanted to teach his children to be good people he should stop beating their mother in front of them. IME being peripherally around courtrooms in the past 25 years, this is not typical judge commentary, but oh so satisfying.

I share that stand-up-to-the-father thing you identified, and watched my younger sibling be complacent so he didn't have to suffer like I did. It took a lot out of me as a child to have to spend so much energy not backing down, that once I left the house I think it took the ground under my feet and I had to learn how to be in a world where people (mostly) weren't trying to attack me all the time. That the defenses I had to use in childhood were very consuming and finding other ways to be in relation to people and myself took a long time to stabilize. They are still ongoing now. I struggled with SH and engaged in relationships where I had to find who I was in relation to other people. It was like I was using my own past to wreck up my present, then I found my freedom in studying in the field I'm still in, and it felt like for the first time that I was able to use my past in standing up to powerful people to my advantage. Luckily in my graduate school the powerful people loved it when students said what they really thought, so I was able to thrive there. That grounded me so I could work on the less tangilble things.

It sounds like this session was something of a turning point for you and you were brave in telling your T what you needed to. Great work.

I love that chapter. I've actually quoted that it to my T before, but it was a different part. I was explaining how, no matter what I know logically, things still feel like abandonment/rejection and still hurt.

So the little prince tamed the fox. And when the hour of his departure drew near—
"Ah," said the fox, "I shall cry."
"It is your own fault," said the little prince. "I never wished you any sort of harm; but you wanted me to tame you . . ."
"Yes, that is so," said the fox.
"But now you are going to cry!" said the little prince.
"Yes, that is so," said the fox.

The part I would want to quote to my T but would be too ashamed/embarrassed is when the fox says "You become responsible, forever, for what you have tamed."
I feel like that applies to therapists. If you're going to get us to let down our defenses and finally be vulnerable and trust and allow ourselves to care, you'd better be prepared to handle it.

Are you glad you stood up for yourself? Or do you wish you'd become complacent?

The weird thing is that I'm not like that in a lot of other aspects of my life. With many things I'm really insecure and will defer to others.
It's only when it becomes a question of fairness and whether or not something is right that I'll stand up for myself. If someone doesn't like me or criticizes me or something, that's not immoral and I get it because I don't like me either. If someone says something intentionally hurtful and cruel or accuses me of something I didn't do or something else that's wrong/unfair/unjust, I will stand up for myself because it's the principle of the thing.

I'm really glad you found a place where it was appreciated, and it sounds like you've done a lot of reflection and made a lot of progress.

Both t and I often reference the elephant in the room idiom and the elephant riddle. (How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.)

From yesterday's session, talking about processing trauma and memory:
T- Memory is like a dotted line. Our brains want to fill in the blanks.
Me- So how do I get from the dotted line to something I can fold up and put away in a drawer?
(Discussion about trauma and memory and processing.)
T- When the elephant walks into the room and sits on your head, it's hard to get a bite.

It was a good session. Long, interesting. We talked quite a bit about intersections between culture and women and traditional gender roles and power and entitlement and how those play out from the individual level to the cultural level...I was going to write, "stuff that's way more interesting than whining about my own sh**" but that's why I go to therapy, so...topics that both intersect with my sh** and are interesting in their own right.

Yes, I am glad. At the time, as a child, it was a choice that I don't think I made consciously, I think it was just the only thing I could figure out to do. And then like a lot of kids who don't feel like they have an array of options, I just kept doing the same thing like a broken record. I don't think I'd be who I am now if I'd crumbled then. I think standing up for myself saved me even though it cost me, if that makes any sense.

T got me after washing his coffee mug. I was a bit surprised he was wearing a red shirt (which is only the second time that he's worn something other than blue).

He asked what was up. I told him how I'd been quite alright after last session. Not great but alright. I even thought about what I wanted to talk about today. Then this morning I read an article while eating breakfast and now I'm scared

He was quiet for maybe half a minute. He asked me what I'd read. I told him about one of those studies on how insects are dying in masses. T asked whether it made me sad (probably because I was crying and sobbing after maybe 2 seconds of talking). I was actually just scared though. I said I'm irritated that nobody else seems to have any emotional reaction or even think about it at all. My uncle has four cars, my parents just bought a house which was just missed by a hurricane last week. The only person who seems to kind of feel the same is my partner, though he's not worried the same way. I told T about an event I'm going to in a couple of weeks where they'll present a scientific report of what the climate in my country will look like in the next 10 years. A buddy of mine agreed to accompany me, but already told me that I am not allowed to voice any concerns about the future based on any of the information we hear there. T asked whether I whine as much there as I do here, to which I said I don't whine. He said yeah, sorry, that's true. I said I usually share concerns and provide information. He started to say that maybe those people get scared because I act the way I do? Whether I knew what he's talking about? I answered projection. T said yes and that he thinks that might be the main reason people always leave me. He asked why it irritates me when people don't seem to react as emotionally as I do when I tell them about something? I said when they do react it feels less lonely. Like they understand and are thinking about things too. But they don't seem to be thinking about anything at all, they seem to not care.

T said most people around me probably do think about it and care. But they don't react emotionally like I do. I asked why not, it seems obvious to me to react this way, who would not if they found out they might die 40 years early? T: "If you worry about that, you have to worry about a lot of things, you can't function like that..." - "Yes, you can! I react like that all the time and I function!" - "No, you don't, else you wouldn't be here." Kind of had to agree with that.
He told me about some major news from last week which made him angry and sad. But he said that he just kept that inside, and dealt with it on his own. Most people feel things sometimes about the world, they just don't let everyone know.

We talked about this some more I think. Then, we switched to discussing meds some more, he explained all the possible side effects in more detail, how the mechanism behind them works and what tests he had ordered to be done. In the end he handed me a letter specifying all the things that need testing for my doctor, which made me kind of happy since I could see his handwriting for the first time.

Then we scheduled for next week and said bye.

I don't even know what the hell we talked about today, but I do know that talking about it made me feel like crap.

I think maybe part of it was because he was saying I appeared to have a "passive" attitude towards some of the things we were discussing--e.g. "yes I suppose that on an unconscious level my withdrawn behaviour could operate as a kind of test--will you respond by leaning in or by ignoring me?--but it doesn't *feel* like I'm testing you so I'm not sure if that's actually what's happening."

The ridiculous thing is that I am working really effing hard in sessions--my brain going a mile a minute, forcing myself to say stuff that makes me feel vulnerable--but he doesn't seem to see or appreciate that. I don't really understand how he "wants" me to respond. Like, yes I understand your argument intellectually; it doesn't resonate emotionally but maybe that's because it's operating at level of consciousness that is below my awareness. Wtf else do you want me to say? Am I supposed to be wowed by your interpretation? Like, my reaction is my reaction, why are you making a big deal about this? He said something about how I experience my depression as something that is forced upon me by my brain, how I no longer feel curious about what might contribute to it or change it... he thought that perhaps there was some kind of parallel process occurring.

Also last week he sent me an email asking me to think about about how I might test people in my life, and about what wish might underly that. In my response, I answered the second part but not the first, and he seemed annoyed about that. I had actually been kind of proud of that email because I felt like I'd really put some thought into it, and had taken some risks in what I'd said. The problem is that I have a really hard time thinking about how I might test people in my life because whenever I try to think about it I feel so ashamed about the idea that I am unconsciously manipulating people that my brain shorts out and I forget what I'm thinking about or my thoughts get slippery and disorganized and I just can't get anywhere. I tried to get him to understand this, I said, "it feels like when it's 2am and I'm alone in the ICU and one of my patients is dying and I'm so scared that I just can't think--my thoughts just don't cohere. They are all over the place, they refuse to precipitate." He didn't seem to get it, he showed me a printout of the email I'd sent him, which he'd written all over, and said, "one of the questions you asked was, 'Will you notice and care about that suffering even if I can’t articulate it?'--are you testing me now, be being unable to articulate your suffering, to see how I'll respond?" I said, "I don't know, it doesn't feel to me like i'm doing that." And then we went around in circles some more.

At the end, he asked how I felt. I said "defeated" or "despairing" or something along those lines. He said that he felt a bit guilty for the fact that I felt that way, and a bit worried about me, and asked how I felt about that. I said, "this sounds a tad sadistic I guess, but it's nice to know that you care enough about me to feel worried about me, to feel guilty when you feel like you've caused me distress." He said, "maybe that's what you wish for when you test me, for me to feel guilty." I said, "see, that makes me feel ashamed about being manipulative." And then I was late for group so I had to go.

I hate this.

I just want him to make me feel better but he never does.

The stupid thing is that he says that I withdraw which makes him lean in, and then I de-value him and keep him at arm's length. He feels like he's working really hard and I'm not engaging. I feel like i'm trying really hard but what he's doing isn't working. It feels like an impossible bind.

Chihiro, I try not to respond to things on the In Session thread, but your T and his arrogance and his lack of empathy and his uncurious, firm opinions about how you operate and why all make me really nervous. Bad therapy can be exceedingly harmful, especially when it sounds like you're in a tough, vulnerable place already. It doesn't seem like he's on your side, and it doesn't seem like he honors the effort you're putting in, and he always seems to assume the worst of your motivations. I'm seeing some giant red flags. Depressed people already beat themselves up enough; they certainly don't need a therapist to help do it too.

Chihiro, I could have written your post almost word for word after my last session. I think I’ll start a thread about it. It’s so hard to feel totally missed.

our last session before we go out of office for phobia work, was yesterday, we spent quite a bit of time talking about the prep and plans, i was sweating like crazy on my hands and my heart was racing. T must have noticed because he looked at me and was like, just breathe...and we started talking about some silly stuff to relax me.

I'm glad he's willing to do this with me.... but I am so terrified, the closer it gets to thurs, the more nervous I will be.... but I trust him and he has a way of making me feel calm around him so I'm hoping for the best

he was funny too, making some jokes about it....

we also talked about jealousy of other clients, he knows its a legit thing and only with women now lol. that was awkward but he handled it well.

he also showed me a cute little stuffed toy he bought for the office, he says he thought it was a hamster but its clearly a husky dog lol.. i was laughing. huskies are my fav. I'm already eyeing it for a thing to ask for when he goes on a trip.

I got mad and e-mailed my t something rude n mean

hours later he showed up in my store and came to my department. I wasn't gonna look at him but I did. I felt embarased

he smiled and waved at me

how does he not hate me. I swear he is not human

This last month of sessions represents the both best and most difficult aspects of therapy. Events in our town too triggering to rightfully depict on the forum and my tiny part in the community's effort to cope showed the best in you or the best in us as a pair.

You picked out the salient way my "gaze" or what I watched/ saw became staring rather than looking back to all the things in life that are good and grounding. You came up with a beautiful metaphor, that I could make eye contact with you out on the search team, I could turn my gaze to you for comfort even though you weren't literally present.

I know that is object constancy dressed up in poetry, but it helped me shift my attention when I got overwhelmed and dig down more deeply.

I think you found more respect for me, bc so much of our time is in your room, under your rules, with your frame dictating, and you are Father Time there, even. Your hour glass has 45 minutes of sand in it.

You maybe realized you are relatively new to the area here, that there is a community outside the room , that other T's make grievous errors which cause real life calamities and aren't infallible to be blindly trusted, and that the calamities are addressed by the people you pigeonhole as your patients.

I have anger toward you longstanding and love for you longstanding all twined together. I experience you as having all the power in therapy, except for my power to completely leave the process. I might bring that sense to the room from my childhood experiences, but you are not a win-win team player. You are quicksilver perceptive , you have gravitas and sterling ethics, you are funny and quick, you say you are my advocate and that you do care. You say you have worked so hard to gain my trust. And yet. There's so little room for me in the room and the frame feels so tight around my neck.

I also don't know what youre made of in real life. You say that is an innate part of therapy's struggle, that it is a leap of faith. I really don't know about that, entrusting my secrets to someone who hides. Take the elevator down from the 4th floor, join the community shoulder to shoulder with people who work long 60 minute hours in emergencies and form a team.

Thanks, EM--I really appreciate your thoughts on this. I'm having a difficult time figuring out why this therapist and I are constantly stalling out... is it me or him or our dynamic or what? I have a hard time trusting him but I try to at least take what he says into consideration (mostly because it drives me bonkers when patients flat-out refuse to believe me even when I know I'm right--though that's different tbh b/c when I know I'm right it's because I have lab values or x rays or whatever to back me up; therapy is nowhere near that concrete). But a lot of the things he offers for consideration make me feel like crap, and often don't feel true to me.

The funny thing is that I'm in a program where all of our individual and group sessions are videotaped and then the various shrinks sit around and watch the videos with each other (or at least bits of them)... so you'd think if he were doing something egregiously wrong, someone would have told him to cut it out??

I'm meeting with the psychiatrist in charge of the program the week after next. I feel a little hopeful about that because the last time I met with him I told him how crappy therapy was feeling and he seemed taken aback and said something about how if things aren't working we can change them. And then he called my T and then my T seemed kind of annoyed (even angry?) I guess because he (my T) felt like the things that were bothering me in therapy weren't things that he was doing (e.g. making a big deal about what he thinks my diagnosis is... though tbh it wasn't so much that he was harping on about it, more that he kept bringing it up in little ways even though I didn't/don't feel ready to talk about/deal with that). So I dunno what the hell to do.

T Thursday. He was maybe 4 minutes late in getting me (his previous client was leaving, but it was a guy using a walker and a woman (wife? caregiver?), so I imagine it took him a little time to get out of office and up the hall. T was right behind them--I asked if it was OK to come back, and he said yes. He then apologized for being late, which I said was OK (I mean, ex-MC used to be 20 minutes late and not even bother apologizing by the end...so 4 minutes when he's almost always right on time? OK.)

Sat down. I said how I was kind of tired from being at concert the night before. T: "Oh, how was it?" Talked about it a bit, then he asked me how often I went to them and how expensive it was--considering ticket, parking, getting something to eat, a few drinks. This made me start feeling anxious. I was like, "Can you tell talking about money makes me anxious?" Talked about concerts a few minutes, how I really only go to 5 or 6 shows a year, and he said he was thinking it was more. He said if I was into Broadway shows, how that would cost much more just to go to one or two. I mentioned the cost of going to pro football games, which I haven't done in a few years, then said that brought back a funny memory of going to one with H, where I had to drive him to a couple gas stations afterward, finding someplace where he could pee.

Which led to a 5-minute discussion about urination... T was saying how aging affects the prostate and increases the urge to go (as I'm thinking "I don't want to think about your prostate or urination habits, T!") I mentioned that it's been an issue for H since I started dating him. And how once on the way back from a concert, we were stuck in traffic, and he had to run across the highway to go. T: "My brother would just say, 'keep an empty Gatorade bottle in the car!'" (I'm now trying not to think of his brother or T peeing in an empty Gatorade bottle...) I said how on my first date with H, he went to the bathroom a bunch, and I'd later read an article in Cosmo that said if a guy goes to the bathroom a bunch, he's probably doing cocaine. T: "When was that article from, the '80s?" Me: "Nope!"

T: "So, did you want to talk about anything else today?" Me: "No, just peeing!" We both laughed. Then I said I guess we could talk about stuff from his email. He asked what stuff specifically. I said maybe what he'd said about how I see relationships. In that part of the email, he'd said: "I'm beginning to think that feeling trust and durability in your relationships are tied to predictability and feeling confident that you understand what it takes on your end to keep things positive. Your email is another reminder that you do not have much confidence in your ability, and that you feel a lot of insecurity that you'll mess things up." In session, I said I thought that seemed fairly accurate.

He said something about rules with people. Me: "Yeah, it's like I've mentioned to you I think before, how I wish people came with rulebooks or, as I put it to ex-MC, style guides. And like if I followed the rules exactly, then things would be OK. But I know people don't work like that..." T: "No, they don't." Me: "And I guess...it's not always the same even with the same person." T: "No, it can depend on the circumstance." Me: "Yeah...so it can be really complicated."

T: "I get the sense much of this came from your mom. You'd talk about how she said you had to follow certain rules with friends." Me: "Yeah, like if I canceled plans on them, they might not invite me to do anything again." T: "Yes. I think some of that came from her own anxiety about your and your relationships." Me: "Hm, like she was worried about my maintaining friendships?" T: "Yes, like that."

T: "I know I'm probably going to be diagnosing your mother many times without having met her." Me: "I'd love for you to be in a room with her to see what you could get out of her, but I doubt she'd talk about it." T: "I don't know. But I think she clearly has anxiety. And if the two of you were in an anxiety competition, I bet it would be fairly similar levels." Me: "What would an anxiety competition look like?" T laughed. "Good question! OK, over here, we have contestant number 1, LT." Me (attempting to imitate panic): "Aaaagggggghhh!" We both laughed.

I said how she'd commented at one point how if I had a best friend, I wouldn't need a therapist. T kinda shook his head at that one. I said how her comment had sort of made me feel like a failure in that I wasn't able to maintain my friendship with my former best friend, while my mom has had the same best friend for like 40 years. T said how having a "best friend" isn't necessarily as common when you get older, unless one was lucky enough to hold onto a close friendship from when they were younger. He asked what I thought made my former best friend a "best friend." I said I guessed that we were the first one the other turned to for stuff going on in our lives, we could talk about anything, that I knew I could call her at 3 a.m., etc. I said I guessed I had friends now I could call or message at 3 am--wouldn't be a big deal for the British ones, because 8 am there! He asked if I had different friends I talked to about different things. I said yes, both with online and local friends. He said that's more common as you get older and there's nothing wrong with that, how there might not just be one person I go to for everything. And that was OK.

He said he hated that one comment like that from my mom could make me feel so bad about myself, that it could have that effect on me. He noted some other comments she'd made, too. I said I also hated that. He said he hoped I could eventually get to the point where I'd basically just think, "Oh, Mom..." and not be affected like that by her comments. I said I wanted that as well.

I said that I feel a therapist has a very different role than a friend. Me: "Well, beyond the fact that I pay you. With therapy, it's OK if the vast majority of the time is all about me." T: "Really, it should all be about you. Anything of mine that I share, it should be in service to you and your therapy." Me: "OK, but in a friendship, I'd have to deal with all of your stuff, too." T: "Right, there's an expectation of reciprocity in a friendship. Also, there's the confidentiality aspect in here." Me: "True, I hadn't thought of that. So I can tell you anything." T: "Yes, and you can discuss taboo topics." Me: "Yeah, like I might not want to talk about (certain triggery thing) with a friend." T: "Or if you did, they might not give you the reaction you want or need. I'm trained in how to react to certain things." Me: "Yes, the psychological expertise, too. So, a lot of differences."

In that conversation, it was like we addressed T's "I'm not your friend" comment from the previous session without really mentioning it. That comment of his was more about what he couldn't give me; this conversation was more about what he *can* give me that maybe a friend can't, which I think is more what I need to hear and focus on (that didn't occur to me until after the session, when I thought "I should have brought up that comment," then realized I sorta had, in a way).

We were almost over time, so I got out my phone, and we confirmed next week's times. Went over and paid. T, shaking my hand, "Good luck out there!" Me: "Thanks." T: "I'll email you your invoice." (not sure why he said that, he always does). Me: "OK." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

that's a great session, LT

We had a significant memory surface last session and I want to get other's take on dissociation related stuff and how therapy impacts your sense of self in that regard. I could really use someone who can relate to talk to.

The sibling who tortured me . I think I was only 3 or 4, it manifested as a body memory at first. I'm realizing now a whole part has the memories of not just a one time event that's in the trigger box, but I think over a more considerable period of time. It came out at our session the week prior to our last session and said "we have to be really smart to find a way to escape" and something about being smart and tricking him. It explained so many things.

Since then, I almost got flooded with content but am fine now; in fact now better than before. But now I'm having some identify issues and am wondering how others experience it. I never could remember much of my childhood, but I have a sense now that more of my parts held/hold memories than I realize rather than having some kind of 'amnesia'. I also realize that when it gets integrated, what usually felt like depersonalization was actually experiencing another part of myself that I wasn't aware of before. Another sibling once told me that this sibling locked me in his room frequently for a period over months, maybe a year, and no one knew what we were doing in there.

Since that part is integrating, I feel more present rather than being in the future (or past when it comes to therapy). At first I thought it was depersonalization but now it's really just more of me that is present. This is making me think that part held a considerable part of my life rather. Or this trauma was over a long period of time (I have multiple traumas, but this one is the worst and has different aspects than the others.)

Relevant to the IST post I wrote on Friday, this is the email I sent my T yesterday and the response he sent a few hours later. (I think I remember there being a thread for emails but I haven't seen it around for a while so I just stuck them here.)

Hi [HWMNBN],

I’m feeling sort of miserable about therapy and I’m not sure what to do. I know that therapy is not always easy or pleasant, but I’m starting to feel afraid that this misery I’m experiencing isn’t even the productive kind.

If I’ve understood you correctly, my withdrawal and “de-valuing” of the therapeutic relationship results in you feeling more invested and working harder to engage with me. Somehow, though, I don’t feel that from you. It feels to me like our relationship is a bit aloof, like you just plain don’t like me—which is your prerogative, I know, but it still feels like crap (and, I think, makes it difficult for me to trust you with the parts of myself that feel vulnerable, or in talking about things that make me feel ashamed… which, given how precariously balanced my emotional stability is, encompasses just about everything a person might talk about in therapy). I don’t think that I take pleasure in you feeling guilty or concerned about me because I’m some kind of sadist—I think those things are proxies for you caring about me. I can’t tell if you actually feel this negatively towards me, or if I’m having a total failure to mentalize, or if I require a ridiculous amount of warmth and reassurance in order to feel safe.

Regardless, I think the fact that I have difficulty perceiving any positive feelings you might have toward me is contributing to the trouble I’m having in answering the difficult questions you ask. What you experience as passivity feels to me like panic—when you ask, for example, how I might test the people in my life, it feels like something shorts out in my head, like my thoughts scatter and refuse to cohere. It’s not that I’m not trying, [HWMNBN]—it’s just too hard and I can’t, at least not yet.

Anyhow. I don’t know if any of this is helpful to you or not, but there it is.

[chihirochild]

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Hi [chihirochild],

Thank you for sending this along. I am definitely sorry that this has all been so painful for you. That is not what I would hope for in our work together, and I would like to do whatever I can to make this more manageable for you. I agree with you--there is productive discomfort, and then there is the iatrogenic kind. I do not want to be generating the latter.

It sounds like you are experiencing me as disliking you, and as treating you in a cold and uncaring way. In light of this, I can really understand now what makes it so difficult to answer my questions, and to talk with me about these things--if I felt like someone felt this negatively about me, I would certainly not want to allow myself to be vulnerable to this person. I am also really struck to learn this, as this is not consistent with my experience of our relationship. This is making me very interested in what I might be doing to come across in this way, and also if there is anything happening in you that potentially contributes to this as well.

You said last week that you found "questions" helpful in thinking some things out, so I will share a couple that come to my mind when I read your e-mail:

(1) You mentioned feeling miserable and "like crap" with me, and those feelings seem to be related to this experience of me as not liking you or caring about you. But I really would like to understand more about what this perception of me does to you--how it makes you feel emotionally, about yourself, etc. That seems very important here.

(2) I am also interested in the importance for you of me liking and caring about you
-It may seem foolish to ask, but what would this do for you, if you felt this coming from me?
-Also: what would have to be different about me (what I would have to say, to do) for you to feel like I genuinely cared?

Finally, after reading your e-mail and thinking about our session on Friday, I have been wondering if perhaps us delving too deeply into our dynamic is not horribly helpful for you at this point. (I'm not saying this definitively, but I am curious about it). After your meeting with [the program's psychiatrist], once I realized that you were so much more upset with me than I had realized, I think I have been directing our focus there quite a bit, in the hopes that we could use this dynamic in order to help you with your challenges outside of the room. But now I am worried that this could be counterproductive, and that perhaps we should be directing less time to "us" and more time to your relationships/interactions outside of the therapy. This might be less overwhelming, and generate less panic for you. I really do want to be helpful to you, [chihirochild], so as long as we are devoting ourselves to the patterns that are meaningful to your and your challenges, I am open to feedback about what you think is best for you.

Take care,

[HWMNBN]

T yesterday. He was wearing jeans, which is quite unusual for him, and a pumpkin-colored button-down (very seasonally appropriate!) And boring white socks. And no ring.

We'd pushed the session back a bit (he had later opening) so I'd have more time to recover from a migraine. So we talked about that briefly, as I discussed a few things that I thought may have contributed to it--was a really busy, stressful weekend (part of which involved my parents).

I said how part of me wanted to talk about a particular topic, certain details of which I'd never shared with anyone before. But that I was also sort of afraid to. Because I felt ashamed about it. T: "It sounds like you want to talk about it." Me: "Yeah...oh, and it's not about you!" T smiled and said, "It sounds like you're afraid I'll run screaming from the room if it's about me." Me: "Well..." I think I gave a few other disclaimers, which he commented on, then went ahead with it.

It's something really personal, so not going into the actual topic or details here. But he handled it well, listening, not seeming to judge me for it, asking appropriate questions.

The conversation eventually shifted to be about my relationship with H. I said how at times it feels like there's something blocking my connection to him. T said he gets the sense that I want more from him than he's maybe capable of giving. Including the level of emotional holding that I seem to want from H, or from anyone really. I said that made sense. Me: "I just...tend to have this romantic vision of what love is supposed to be like." T: "Yes, I get that sense from you." Me: "But I know it's not realistic...to want that much from one person. I mean, I guess there are some marriages where they get everything they need emotionally, intellectually, sexually..."

T: "Some author--I forget the name--said something like, 'If you marry Steve, you get certain positives along with certain problems. If you marry Mike, you get a different set of positives and a different set of problems. But there are always the problems there along with the positives, it just depends on who you pick which ones of each you get." Me: "Yeah, that makes sense. It's just, like I said, having that whole idealized vision of a relationship, wanting that kind of connection..."

T: "It can be especially common when you're younger, like teen and college age, for people to equate sexual connection with emotional connection. Like, you have your body part inside someone else's body, and it's literally the closest you can possibly get to another person physically, so it can feel that way emotionally, too." Me [Thrown off slightly by that description of sex]: ".......... Yeah, like I think of my college boyfriend, where it felt like we were really compatible sexually and just felt connected. I mean, I guess he was only the second guy I was with, so it seemed more intense..." T: "Wait, who was only the second guy you were with?" "College guy [name]. Not H, I've been with other people before him." T: "OK, that's what I thought you'd said before."

Me: "But I wonder at times...if I'm chasing that feeling with people. Like maybe it's why I would switch back and forth from dating the sorts of guys I'm naturally drawn to, like the artists and musicians, who I'm attracted to, but are less reliable. Like maybe there's emotional connection, but they also have their own issues there... And then to more reliable people, where we got along well, but the attraction wasn't there at the same level. So then... But...that was a feeling from who I was back then, when I was 21, so...maybe it's just different now." T talked about how marriage/living together is different, how you deal with the socks on the floor and bad morning breath and things like that. T said something about a person seeming ideal, but they're not. No clue why I pulled this example, but I mentioned Hugh Grant, how maybe it seemed like he had this perfect life, married to a model, but then he was caught hooking up with a prostitute in a car. T: "Yes, good example. And Hugh Grant probably has bad breath and a hairy butt." I laughed. "Yeah."

I said that I felt we needed to spend more time talking about stuff with my H in there in general, and T agreed. I said I knew we needed to stop in a minute, then we started talking about something else related to original topic for a few minutes. Then T glanced at the clock and was like, "Oh! I'm going to make myself late!" I looked and saw it was on the hour (still had to schedule and pay) and reflexively said, "Sorry about that." T: "No, it's not your fault, it's on me to keep the time." I said we could just schedule on email or something, but he said fine to do it then. Confirmed Thursday, then scheduled for next Monday and Thursday for usual time. T: "I'll make sure to just block out that time going forward for you." Me: "Thanks."

Went over to pay, as we were talking about him rescheduling me till later that day. He said he'd had slot open anyway, that all he did was shift his paperwork time to earlier. I said something about how maybe he wished he'd just done his paperwork this hour instead. T: "Never!" He shook my hand and said, "Good luck to you out there." Me: "Thanks. You too." I sorta waved "bye" for whatever reason, then headed out.

Lol LT, you remember everything about what T wears. I rarely remember what color shirt mine has.

Sounds good overall though. Glad you are trusting the relationship more

Thanks! And he pays attention to what I wear, too, will comment on if I'm wearing new shoes or new necklace (and is generally accurate). Yesterday he asked if a bracelet I was playing with that I often wear to session has a particular significance to me or if it's just a good fidget toy (it's elastic). I said good fidget toy!

(Self harm tw in the last two paragraphs)

I asked him if he believed me. I was worried he'd doubt me because I'm telling him that none of the therapists/judge/lawyers believed that living with my father was detrimental to my wellbeing.
He said he believed me. He gave an example of a case he spoke in court about when he was a post doc where he testified that the father was super abusive and the daughter still had to go back.
I told him I don't always believe myself.
That I know how bad human beings are at memory. That if everyone else disagrees with you you're probably wrong.
But I pointed out that logically I know my brother and mom had the same experience and were just as damaged by it.

He asked why this was coming up now. I said it was the internal conflict about whether I was "allowed" to believe that my beliefs about myself were distorted because of this stuff and that's where they came from. Because the alternative is that I believe that I'm a bad weak pathetic person because it's true. And so I have to be able to trust that it's from this childhood stuff, otherwise it feels like I'm trying to not blame myself for something that's my fault.

Weirdly I actually looked at him for like half the session. It was nice. I felt more connected. It was different.

He was pushing me to do what I felt was too much too quickly. When I push in one direction my brain pushes back, and I'm worried that if I try to do too much proactively being nice to myself that there's going to be backlash and it will end badly.

At some point he had a small smile and looked slightly amused and I asked him why and he said something like that he gets reminded that I'm going to do things my way at my own pace or something like that. I don't remember his exact wording. He wasn't saying I was stubborn exactly, like it wasn't in a bad way. His wording wasn't really what stood out to me, it was the way he said it, like there was some fondness in his voice or something.
It sounds weird but it meant a lot. It made me feel special. Because he was smiling to himself, not for my benefit, and it seemed really genuine and kind of spontaneous. It was also a kind of rare glimpse into his emotions.

I don't really understand it. He deals with the worst parts of me twice a week. I'm moody and unpredictable and resentful and emotional and irrational and I'm sure I'm really frustrating.
I kind of want to ask him how he can not hate me. But that feels manipulative like I'm trying to get him to say nice things.

I was wearing a shorter sleeved shirt than usual, a fitted women's t-shirt instead of a men's shirt or something, because I need to do laundry. My upper arms are pretty much covered in literally countless self harm scars that are hard to miss, and it tends to be something most people are shocked (or horrified) by. As I walked out I saw the person I assume was his next patient, a woman in maybe her early 40s, glance at me as I walked out and I saw the moment of recognition when she noticed and I was kind of amused by that. I don't usually pay attention because I forget about them, but occasionally I do notice someone else noticing.

I don't know why I care at all in this specific instance or why it gave me that small sense of satisfaction. Maybe I want to seem deserving of his time? Maybe it was a possessive thing? There are other kinds of offices in the hallway so it wouldn't necessarily be obvious that I was coming from his office/therapy. Or maybe I just like attention, who knows?
Thinking about it now, maybe I liked the idea of it being clear that I'm doing longer term fairly intense/deep therapy, that I'm not just a casual short term patient he's helping with work stress or something. I like the idea of her thinking about me getting his attention and him caring about me.
Ugh.

had a terrible session with t

I think threads like this get variable amounts of responses. If you start a thread you will def get responses and hopefully the support you're looking for. Sorry you're feeling unsupported, I am sure it's not anyone's intention.

I saw my new T today. He seemed kinda nervous. I was kinda nervous too.

I tried to give him a rundown of all the s**t that has happened in the last few years. He said it sounded traumatic, but he was stumbling over his words a bit.

We talked about him being the same age as me and my complicated feelings about that. Also about him having such a similar approach to me, so that it's almost like being counselled by myself. How there's no mystical magic trick in it, I know exactly what he's doing. And that's okay. But there's a part of me that wishes he could save me, fix me.

I talked about my issues with my heart, and the prospect of having surgery. I cried a fair bit, and when I cried I missed T2 so much that it hurt. He asked what was going on for me in those moments, and I told him (that I was missing T2), and he said that's what he'd suspected. He seemed to understand.

I felt irritated with him a few times. He stated the obvious a bit. He asked me what my crying was about a couple of times and a part of me wanted to say "I'm crying because I'm sad, you f***ing idiot."

I also sort of felt like telling him - part of me felt like telling him - to go away, to f*** off, because I don't want him. I just want T2.

But he doesn't deserve any of that. He's lovely, really, and I think I felt safe with him and held by him. He'll do.

I know I had similar feelings when I started with T2. So there is hope. Plenty of it. Just... FFS this really sucks.

He said something at the end like "I'm glad we've started our work together" or something and I appreciate the sentiment and all but it didn't seem that genuine, I guess I didn't believe he really meant it.

Oh, also, I didn't feel that attracted to him... which is a good sign, I guess. I don't want to fall in love with him. Been there...

This is cuts to the quick of where I struggle with psychotherapy when I do struggle. How hard would it be for him to tell you he does care? I know they are trained this way, to never gratify and not share their feelings, but it has a manipulative or withholding feel.

Hi [chihirochild],

Thank you for sending this along. I am definitely sorry that this has all been so painful for you. That is not what I would hope for in our work together, and I would like to do whatever I can to make this more manageable for you. I agree with you--there is productive discomfort, and then there is the iatrogenic kind. I do not want to be generating the latter.

It sounds like you are experiencing me as disliking you, and as treating you in a cold and uncaring way. In light of this, I can really understand now what makes it so difficult to answer my questions, and to talk with me about these things--if I felt like someone felt this negatively about me, I would certainly not want to allow myself to be vulnerable to this person. I am also really struck to learn this, as this is not consistent with my experience of our relationship. This is making me very interested in what I might be doing to come across in this way, and also if there is anything happening in you that potentially contributes to this as well.

You said last week that you found "questions" helpful in thinking some things out, so I will share a couple that come to my mind when I read your e-mail:

(1) You mentioned feeling miserable and "like crap" with me, and those feelings seem to be related to this experience of me as not liking you or caring about you. But I really would like to understand more about what this perception of me does to you--how it makes you feel emotionally, about yourself, etc. That seems very important here.

(2) I am also interested in the importance for you of me liking and caring about you
-It may seem foolish to ask, but what would this do for you, if you felt this coming from me?
-Also: what would have to be different about me (what I would have to say, to do) for you to feel like I genuinely cared?

Finally, after reading your e-mail and thinking about our session on Friday, I have been wondering if perhaps us delving too deeply into our dynamic is not horribly helpful for you at this point. (I'm not saying this definitively, but I am curious about it). After your meeting with [the program's psychiatrist], once I realized that you were so much more upset with me than I had realized, I think I have been directing our focus there quite a bit, in the hopes that we could use this dynamic in order to help you with your challenges outside of the room. But now I am worried that this could be counterproductive, and that perhaps we should be directing less time to "us" and more time to your relationships/interactions outside of the therapy. This might be less overwhelming, and generate less panic for you. I really do want to be helpful to you, [chihirochild], so as long as we are devoting ourselves to the patterns that are meaningful to your and your challenges, I am open to feedback about what you think is best for you.

Take care,

[HWMNBN][/I][/QUOTE]