[SlumberKitty]

I definitely can relate to the idea of T being an authority figure. The longer I saw my former T the more I saw her as an authority figure. Maybe, in my case, it was because my T seemed to have her life together and stuff like that and I trusted her to know what she was talking about. After all, she was the expert. But I forget that I'm the expert on me. I think it sounds like a really good session and some good connections made. And good for you asking for another session. It's good to ask for what we need. HUGS Kit

[DP_2017]

LT

Sadly there is some rude people on here. Just gotta learn to not care what everyone thinks. If you find things helpful, fine. Just ask yourself now and then, if it's still gonna be helpful in the long run, meaning... you don't want a repeat of ex MC and I think alot of people here are trying to be protective of you and help you avoid then, hence the advice/comments. I know that's where my views come from. I see patterns and I start to worry, because I don't want you going through that hell again, especially now that I've experienced something similar. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. So not every "harsh" comment is mean or judging, it can come from a place of care/concern

[LonesomeTonight]

Extra T session yesterday. Went back and sat down. T (in a concerned voice): "Are you OK?" Me: "I don't know..." T: "Were you thinking about more stuff with H and the anniversary last night or something like that?" Me: "No, I figured you'd suspect why I wanted to meet again." T: "No." Me: "It was something from yesterday's session." T: "Why don't you talk me through what you're feeling?"

Me (starting to cry): "It's the yellow email thing." T: "Oh." Me: "I thought I was OK with it yesterday. I kept telling myself 'It's OK, he said it's OK, it's only yellow.' But I just kept thinking about it. And then I started to write you an email to clarify something about it, then I just kept thinking, 'This is going to push me to orange. I don't want to go to orange.'" T (compassionately): "Wow, LT." Me: "Because then if I get to orange, I'm only one step away from red, and..." T said something about how my brain goes down a negative path quickly.

Me: "It's like...I don't know, I feel like a kid who's been bad. Like I'm too needy. It's OK to have a certain level of need, but then...if I go beyond that...it's not OK." T: "But it is OK to email. It just could eventually involve charging you." Me: "I can understand that on the adult level, like intellectually." T: "But the intellectual part doesn't control our feelings." Me: "Yeah.

Me: "I feel like...this is going to sound...pathetic or something. But it's felt lately like you've been more...I don't know, like caring or compassionate with me. Like with some of your email responses. But now the talk about charging me, it's making that all sort of confused in my head. Like I had been picturing you typing a reply while feeling caring, and now it's like I'm imagining you sitting there thinking, "OK, this reply is moving you into yellow now..." T: "That's not what I'm thinking. I don't keep some sort of track of where clients are in emailing." Me: "OK, I think I just had this image of a chart, where most all the clients are in green and then I'm there in yellow." T: "No, and honestly yesterday was the first time I even referred to it as color coded. It just seemed easy to compare it to the threat level thing." (referencing the Bush post-9/11 terrorist threat level). Me: "Yeah, and that probably wasn't the best comparison to make..." T: "Good point! It just popped into my head."

Me: "I think part of it too is that it feels like the email boundary is kind of unilateral and subjective." T: "Aren't boundaries unilateral by nature?" Me: "I guess. It's more the subjective part, where there's no clear way for me to know what is too much. Like I've sent about one email a week for the past 4 weeks. I guess that's too much?" T: "Well, it's sort of moving in that direction, but still OK, which is why I said yellow." Me: "But it's hard for me to know what's OK. I mean, like if you said, 'you can send me 500 words a week.' OK, that's actually quite a lot. More like, say, I don't know, 200 words, 150 words?" T: "What do you think would be fair?" Me: "I don't know." T: "I haven't really discussed this policy in such detail before." Me: "I think I just like to know what the limits are."

T: "Well, I think of email as part of my job. I'm essentially on call, like 18 hours a day, 7 days a week." Me: "So, like, some of it is sort of built into the session fee?" T: "Yes, in a sense. Because I choose to allow email and don't charge when it takes less than 15 minutes." Me: "Well...I mean, I see you twice a week. So, I'm paying you twice what a weekly client would pay. So...if email is built in...shouldn't that mean I get a bit more email time?" T: "Hmm...that's an interesting point. I hadn't considered that."

I talked about my fears of getting to the red level again. How it didn't seem fair to me that he'd then charge me for all emails going forward. T: "What do you mean?" Me: "I thought you said once a client moved past a threshold, they'd get charged for any emails going forward, even short ones. And it doesn't seem fair if you'd charge me $45 for a couple sentences." T: "No. I guess I wasn't clear. Remember how the other week we used the metaphor of pouring water in the sink and it overflowing?" Me: "Yeah." T: "It's like that. Say you sent me, I don't know, 5 emails in 1 week, and together they took me a certain amount of time, and the sink would be overflowing. I'd charge you for those, the sink would be drained, and you'd be back to green again." Me: "I would? I thought you'd just keep charging me from then on out." T: "No, that wouldn't be fair." Me: "Yeah, that's what I thought, too...OK I feel better knowing that."

Me: "Because I kept thinking, when I was in crisis 3 years ago, about how much support I got from ex-MC and T over like a 4-day period. And if that had been you, then after that you'd have been like, 'Well, OK, here's a bill for the email and I'm now going to charge you from here on out.' When I was still feeling really awful." T: "No." Me: "I guess I also keep thinking, if I'd only been seeing you during that time, you couldn't have given me that support. Because you don't do phone calls unless a client is out of town. So I couldn't have talked to you on a Saturday. Maybe you could have had me in for a session if you were there that Sunday, but I'd have had to lie to H to say why I was going." T: "I could do phone calls in that situation. I prefer to see people in person, but in that case, I could have done a call. I mean, I'd have charged you for that time." Me: "No, I understand that. I just thought I wouldn't have been able to get support from you, OK."

We talked about why he charged for longer or more frequent emails. He said it's his way of avoiding resenting clients for taking up his time. Because if he's getting paid for his time, then he's not going to be resentful. How it actually surprises him that most T's don't charge for outside contact at all. I said how part of why it's hard for me is that I'm used to it always being free from ex-T and ex-MC. But then they often didn't reply or would take a few days. Me: "And I appreciate that you always reply." T: "And I try to always do so within 24 hours."

I said I thought all of this was tied into the authority figure thing we discussed yesterday. Me: "How do I stop putting you in the role of an authority figure? Because you say I have all the power, in that I can leave, but I feel you have a lot of power, too, like the email stuff, you can just decide when to charge me." T (in another poor choice of metaphors): "You have the nuclear option in being able to just leave. But I guess I have some smaller guns, too." Me: "Yeah, and technically you could terminate me, too." T: "Not ethically." Me: "Yeah, but you hear about it happening all the time. Or T's taking something away, like email. Or someone on the forum whose T still lets her email but he won't respond." T: "That doesn't seem right to me. I feel that if I offer something in the beginning, like replying to emails, then I should continue to do that." Me: "I appreciate that. Or if it was a case where you didn't think email was helpful to me, we'd discuss it and come up with a solution together instead of you deciding on it." T: "Yes."

Somewhere earlier in the session, I'd mentioned it being my birthday, and T immediately said, "Right, happy birthday!" Me: "Thanks, but I thought therapists had some rule against saying that." T: "I don't." Me: "OK, just ex-T never did until the last year I was seeing her, even though I'd be like 'on my birthday tomorrow, I'm doing x. Ex-MC said it a few times, which meant something." T: "I don't think there's a rule."

Something about PC came up and some of the feedback I'd gotten on here, both about myself and about him. T: "I get the sense many people on there think I'm an @$$hole." Me: "Yeah, some do seem to have that impression. And I suppose you do have your moments...You do have some fans though!" T said he's said before how there's the spectrum of T's with the more warm, fuzzy ones on one side, and then the more detached, sort of behaviorists on the other side. And he's closer to the latter side, so he wonders if that's why some people react that way. He said how there are so many different ways to do therapy and clients want different things from their T's, and much of it is just about finding the right match. T: "I mean, I can do warm and fuzzy stuff when I have to...OK that came out kind of wrong, I don't mind doing that." Me: "You do have the occasional warm or fuzzy moment."

We had a couple minutes left. T asked if I wanted to do a wrapup up the conversation. I said how it helped hearing his explanation of the email and having a better understanding of his policy. T: "I think this today was an important conversation for us to have." Me: "Yeah, I think so, too."

Confirmed Monday and Thursday. Joked around a bit about my dinner plans for that evening. Paid, shook hands as he said "Happy Birthday! Enjoy!" (ok, there "enjoy" made sense!) Me: "Thanks!" T: "See you Monday." Me: "See you then." Felt good about the session, glad we'd discussed things more and he'd clarified. I guess I could have gotten the same basic information from an email, but it's different in person.

[DP_2017]

LT

I really HOPE you remember all this. I know it's hard but try not to panic about things with him so much. He's been very patient with you and he's not the kind of T to not say something if it's bothering him.

It was interesting to me that he said he hadn't had a talk about boundaries like that before, my T said the exact same when I used to ask about texting boundaries.

I am surprised he considered himself always on call. Kinda sad, it comes off as work is more important than family, or that he can't separate his personal and professional life. I don't know anyone who would be on call for their job that much

Why would you think there is a rule about happy birthday wishes? I've never heard such a thing. Mine said it to me. Many others have talked about it here. Not any different than saying Merry Christmas. I'm glad you asked him how to help you stop seeing him as an authority figure, working on changing that mindset will really help you. I think you will feel such a sense of relief.

[stopdog]

"Something about PC came up and some of the feedback I'd gotten on here, both about myself and about him. T: "I get the sense many people on there think I'm an @$$hole." Me: "Yeah, some do seem to have that impression. And I suppose you do have your moments...You do have some fans though!" T said he's said before how there's the spectrum of T's with the more warm, fuzzy ones on one side, and then the more detached, sort of behaviorists on the other side."

I think he sounds like an asshole, but not because he is not warm and fuzzy nor is it because he is more detached. I am not saying you shouldn't hire him if he works for you for some reason. I am saying I would never had hired a therapist who acts the way you describe him.

[ElectricManatee]

I think this idea of a therapist as an authority figure is an interesting one. I do see my T as an authority on psychology and relationships, given her training, experience, and what I assume is a natural knack for dissecting human interactions. My sense of her authority in that domain comes from years of hearing her observations and predictions and then comparing them to my real-life experiences. She has accurately explained people in my life that she has never met, so I do weight her opinions about certain things pretty heavily, probably more than anybody else's except my own.

Aside from my estimation of her expertise, I also see her as an authority figure in the traditional sense. But I see that as power that I have given her in the context of our relationship, and I retain the ability to revoke my consent and either leave therapy or change the parameters of our interactions. I give her that power because I can't experiment with being vulnerable and trusting somebody to take care of me without putting her in a position of authority to do that. This is all reworking childhood stuff, which is where I personally need to be. I could see other people not needing to play out that dynamic, though, and thus seeing their therapist more like a consultant or a trusted friend or somebody who is paid to sit there and stay back.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by stopdog

"Something about PC came up and some of the feedback I'd gotten on here, both about myself and about him. T: "I get the sense many people on there think I'm an @$$hole." Me: "Yeah, some do seem to have that impression. And I suppose you do have your moments...You do have some fans though!" T said he's said before how there's the spectrum of T's with the more warm, fuzzy ones on one side, and then the more detached, sort of behaviorists on the other side."

I think he sounds like an asshole, but not because he is not warm and fuzzy nor is it because he is more detached. I am not saying you shouldn't hire him if he works for you for some reason. I am saying I would never had hired a therapist who acts the way you describe him.

Oh I agree that he can be an asshole at times (apparently you can just use that word on here). But he's also receptive to my calling him out when he's being one. (Maybe not in those exact words, but something to that effect.) Which I think is an important quality. And is giving me practice in calling people out...

[DP_2017]

LT

That's one thing I liked about my T as well, he allowed that and he in turned called me out. It was really powerful for me.

It is odd that you can say that here but not certain other things

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

LT

I really HOPE you remember all this. I know it's hard but try not to panic about things with him so much. He's been very patient with you and he's not the kind of T to not say something if it's bothering him.

It was interesting to me that he said he hadn't had a talk about boundaries like that before, my T said the exact same when I used to ask about texting boundaries.

I am surprised he considered himself always on call. Kinda sad, it comes off as work is more important than family, or that he can't separate his personal and professional life. I don't know anyone who would be on call for their job that much

Why would you think there is a rule about happy birthday wishes? I've never heard such a thing. Mine said it to me. Many others have talked about it here. Not any different than saying Merry Christmas. I'm glad you asked him how to help you stop seeing him as an authority figure, working on changing that mindset will really help you. I think you will feel such a sense of relief.

Thanks, DP. I'm trying to keep all of what he said in my head. And he's been true to his word in telling me if something bothers him, even if it's just a little bit. So I need to trust that he will. And realize that even if I'm bothering him, he's not going to kick me out.

That's interesting that your T hadn't had a boundaries talk either. In a way, it makes more sense with your T because he hadn't been practicing that long. Mine has been for over 15 years, so you'd think it would have come up at some point. Though it could be he's sort of revised his policy over that time (as part of it was with another practice, he's been solo for I think 9 years). And maybe most clients either didn't email much or just accepted any charges without questioning it.

I was actually surprised at his on-call comment, too, because I thought ex-MC was like that (for him, more like 24 hours, because he answered the phone in the middle of the night once, while my T has said he doesn't do that). But it feels like T has more boundaries set, like the reason he wants clients to only text about scheduling is that he always has his phone with him, so if one were to text about something else, it could interrupt family or other time. While his email, he chooses when to check that, so it's not, as he'd say, "intrusive." (He said texting about scheduling, he can just reply without having to think about it, as compared to a client texting him about an issue they're having.) Same with calls, he generally would only do them if scheduled, but said he can talk briefly in a crisis (if not in middle of night).

I guess the birthday thing, it would just be like I'd mention the next day was my birthday to ex-T or actually last year to current T (I'm going to a concert tomorrow on my birthday), and to me, a friend or coworker would just be like "Oh, happy birthday!" While it seemed like they just wouldn't say it. So I think I figured maybe there was some sort of thing about it, but maybe it's just them...though turns out I guess it's not a thing for current T anyway. Maybe ex-T was just weird...

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by ElectricManatee

I think this idea of a therapist as an authority figure is an interesting one. I do see my T as an authority on psychology and relationships, given her training, experience, and what I assume is a natural knack for dissecting human interactions. My sense of her authority in that domain comes from years of hearing her observations and predictions and then comparing them to my real-life experiences. She has accurately explained people in my life that she has never met, so I do weight her opinions about certain things pretty heavily, probably more than anybody else's except my own.

Aside from my estimation of her expertise, I also see her as an authority figure in the traditional sense. But I see that as power that I have given her in the context of our relationship, and I retain the ability to revoke my consent and either leave therapy or change the parameters of our interactions. I give her that power because I can't experiment with being vulnerable and trusting somebody to take care of me without putting her in a position of authority to do that. This is all reworking childhood stuff, which is where I personally need to be. I could see other people not needing to play out that dynamic, though, and thus seeing their therapist more like a consultant or a trusted friend or somebody who is paid to sit there and stay back.

Regarding your first part, my T has said he feels it's a partnership, where he's the expert on psychology and I'm the expert on LT.

What you say about giving her that power in order to be vulnerable and trusting rings true. I don't think I included this, but in one of the authority figure discussions with T, I said how I think part of why I see him that way is that I've been so vulnerable with him, that I've told him some things I haven't really shared with other people, let him see me be really emotional, etc. And I'm trusting him to still accept me despite what I tell him, which is something I wanted but didn't/don't so much get from my parents. So even though I don't have the same paternal transference for him that I did with ex-MC--like I've never thought "I wish he could have been my dad" or things like that--there's still some parental stuff at play in the dynamic. I think this is a conversation I need to continue with him, so that maybe I can figure out how to shift the dynamic, or at least for us both to understand it better. Because maybe that could help me with the dynamics of other authority figures in my life (whether now or in the future).

[Anne2.0]

What popped into my head reading your last session and the fears about arbitrariness in response and him taking things away is how young those fears sound. I wondered if you were an only child, because for some reason this pings for me as perhaps more profound for only children. When you have siblings, I think you have an "outsider" perspective about how the parent/child relationship changes naturally as children "achieve" developmental stages, like pottying, weaning, and so on including lots of independent things like dressing, feeding, reading by themselves . . . .

Less from my childhood, but more from my son's, who is an only child. We were quite "attachment" oriented in practice without buying into the theory wholesale. It was clear to me that he perceived certain stages of independence with some fears, like what will it mean that mom and dad won't help me with ___ anymore? I think he associated, and at almost adult age still does, doing things for him as love, and if those were no longer done, then the love was draining away. At some point he expressed that he was afraid to read by himself because then we wouldn't read to him anymore.

I've never read the book, but many people I know talk about "love languages" and about what love (could just as easy be support or caring) means. Maybe it was mentioned in your marriage counseling. Just wondering if your feelings and fears about emailing and what not are related to something in the neighborhood of this idea.

[SummerTime12]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

I guess the birthday thing, it would just be like I'd mention the next day was my birthday to ex-T or actually last year to current T (I'm going to a concert tomorrow on my birthday), and to me, a friend or coworker would just be like "Oh, happy birthday!" While it seemed like they just wouldn't say it. So I think I figured maybe there was some sort of thing about it, but maybe it's just them...though turns out I guess it's not a thing for current T anyway. Maybe ex-T was just weird...

I thought that not saying happy birthday was some sort of therapist thing too! Whenever I’ve casually mentioned my birthday, none of my Ts have ever said happy birthday. Almost like if they said it they would be imposing their own view of birthdays onto the client? I always thought it was kinda strange since like you said, if it was a friend or really anyone else, they’d just say it casually.

[ElectricManatee]

There has been a thread here before about birthdays and therapy, and it seems like a decent number of therapists have said happy birthday. Mine has, at least twice that I can remember.

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

My T has wished me happy birthday before as well.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

What popped into my head reading your last session and the fears about arbitrariness in response and him taking things away is how young those fears sound. I wondered if you were an only child, because for some reason this pings for me as perhaps more profound for only children. When you have siblings, I think you have an "outsider" perspective about how the parent/child relationship changes naturally as children "achieve" developmental stages, like pottying, weaning, and so on including lots of independent things like dressing, feeding, reading by themselves . . . .

Less from my childhood, but more from my son's, who is an only child. We were quite "attachment" oriented in practice without buying into the theory wholesale. It was clear to me that he perceived certain stages of independence with some fears, like what will it mean that mom and dad won't help me with ___ anymore? I think he associated, and at almost adult age still does, doing things for him as love, and if those were no longer done, then the love was draining away. At some point he expressed that he was afraid to read by himself because then we wouldn't read to him anymore.

I've never read the book, but many people I know talk about "love languages" and about what love (could just as easy be support or caring) means. Maybe it was mentioned in your marriage counseling. Just wondering if your feelings and fears about emailing and what not are related to something in the neighborhood of this idea.

I am an only child, so you could be onto something here... I can definitely tell some of the fears with T come from a young place and mentioned that to him. It's like my mom expected perfection (with lots of things, academically, friendships, financial stuff, etc.), and now this emailing thing, where I'm no longer at "green" I think is triggering that. He said that even if I hit red, I can then go back to green.

Whereas with my mom, if I messed up in some way, she wouldn't let me forget it for years. Forgot a homework assignment and got a zero on it? She kept reminding me of it and how hard it was to claw myself back to an A. Even getting a speeding ticket in my mid-20s (from a speed trap on a highway, going along with the traffic, not being reckless), she was still telling me years later "stay out of the fast lane" if I said I was driving somewhere. And, I mean, a large number of people get speeding tickets at some point in their lives (including my T--we discussed it once). So I think maybe I need to delve into all of this stuff more with T--we've talked about it some, but if it's triggered so easily like this...there's clearly more to work through.

And to tie it back into your original comment, I think being an only child played into that, because my mom just had me to focus on. And I had no ally in dealing with the pressure.

ETA: I have looked at the love languages book (and taken the test online--ex-MC seemed to think it was BS) and considered it in relation to my H but not beyond that. Trying to remember what I came up with for me...maybe I'll take the online quiz again. I think maybe the words of affirmation, or something to that effect? Definitely not physical affection or "acts of service."

[LonesomeTonight]

Yep, Words of affirmation at the top with 11.

Followed by tie at 7 of "acts of service" and "quality time"
Gift giving at 4
Physical touch at 1

I was also an only child and, if anything, I tend to have the opposite issue: not seeing/accepting almost anyone as authority. My parents never treated me in that way, in fact some of the problems I am still having are due to not learning good discipline/being disciplined as a child... My parents never followed my school projects, not even my grades too much (they were typically very good so no concerns). I do not tend to see authority merely based on position of someone relative to me, even a boss. I do in select cases based on competency and useful mentorship. But I would have never even thought of a T as an authority figure if I hadn't read it here on PC, or my first T tried to impose it (which I boldly rejected). But I definitely agree that if a parent has an authoritarian, perfectionistic style, an only child will probably suffer from it more than siblings. With siblings, there can be at least another person on a similar level to go to vent or rebel, but one child surrounded only by adults with overly high expectations has no one to give them a reality check if something is unrealistic.

It's funny LT, because I have the impression your T is trying to often go against that authority figure role in speech, to make you not see him as such, but this whole color coding the emailing sounds pretty controlling to me even if he adds there are no real consequences or nothing would affect your relationship negatively. I personally would not have liked that color coding either and would just prefer to have a clearer agreement on what the free/paid emailing rules are. I think the 15 minutes is very vague and inaccurate, how does he measure that at all? Does he always set a timer when he opens an emails from you or writes one? Does he never get distracted and finish an email later? But I understand it is hard to set clear rules with this and define the criteria. I would prefer word count per email, it is cleaner and easier to keep correctly. Even if he might sometimes write a longer email in 5 mins and spend a lot more on composing a shorter one.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

Or T's taking something away, like email. Or someone on the forum whose T still lets her email but he won't respond." T: "That doesn't seem right to me. I feel that if I offer something in the beginning, like replying to emails, then I should continue to do that." Me: "I appreciate that. Or if it was a case where you didn't think email was helpful to me, we'd discuss it and come up with a solution together instead of you deciding on it.".

This session with your T was particularly interesting for me to read given my history of emails with my T. I suppose our situations are different and clearly our T’s practice differently. I do very much like your T and the way you discuss things. I’m still going back & forth on how I feel about having email responses rescinded. I do think he’s kind and good, and perhaps his reasons for that should be good enough. Sometimes they are and sometimes they aren’t. I think our relationship has pivoted, possibly in a good way, with my being able to bring more into sessions rather than keeping our relationship in emails. But I do go back to feeling upset about it from time to time because it’s hard when I remember that I used to get replies, but now I don’t, no matter what (except for scheduling). And reading your discussion with your T about all this sort of stirs it all up for me and makes me realize I’m not quite over it yet. So thanks for making me think.

[LonesomeTonight]

Will write up T sessions (Monday/Thursday) and consulting T session (Wednesday) sometime this weekend. Decided to stay with T, for now at least, but that will make more sense (I think?) from the writeups.

[LonesomeTonight]

OK, not going to write up Monday's and feel sort of weird writing up the consulting T one. Plus part of those are summarized in here.

T Thursday. A cancelled and then rescheduled session. Went back and sat down. I had trouble looking at T at first. Me: "I guess I need to talk about what's going on. Thanks for being willing to see me after I canceled." T: "Of course. I think it's better to discuss what's going on." Me: "I know the email stuff probably didn't make much sense." T: "Yes, I'm confused as to what's going on right now, so why don't you tell me what you're feeling?"

I started to cry. Me: "Damn it, didn't mean to start crying this early." I picked up the box of tissues and sat it next to me. Me: "I guess first...I need to share something with you." T: "OK." Me: "I ended up consulting with someone yesterday. I know I probably should have told you first, but it seemed kind of passive-aggressive to do that over email, like 'I'm upset with you, now I'm going to see someone else.' And I was originally going to try to see someone while you were away, but it turned out that she was away then, too, and she had an opening yesterday, so...I figured I'd go." T: "Well, I would have preferred if you'd told me first, but as I've said before you're completely free to consult with someone or see someone else for a while." Me (more tears): "Sorry for not telling you first." T: "It's OK. You're acting like you cheated on me or something." Me: "I guess I sort of feel like that?" T: "But you don't really owe me anything. This sort of fits with my saying the client has more power." Me: "I guess you could consult about me with...a client?" T: "Not really." Me: "Another T? But I guess it's not quite the same."

T: "Can you tell me what made you decide to get consultation now? I assume it was about your therapy in here, right?" Me: "Yes. It was just...after session on Monday, I just felt, like I said in the one email, despondent. I spent much of the rest of Monday and part of Tuesday crying off and on. My sending you the email...I should have waited to figure out more of what I was feeling before sending it. Because I know it may not have made a lot of sense why I was upset. But it's like, I just wanted the sadness to stop. And I was hoping your reply would help with that. But then it just felt, I don't know, kind of generic, I guess. And I'd just had an extra session last week, so I felt I couldn't ask for that. So I started looking at other T's on Psychology Today. And then Tuesday I emailed some, saying maybe I just wanted a session or two about an issue. One of the women who got back to me, I replied and said it was to consult about my therapy, and she said she'd be happy to help. She's someone who has a lot of training in attachment. She said she had a session yesterday open, so I just decided to take that because I was feeling so sad and felt I needed to discuss it with someone."

T: "OK. Do you want to talk about what you talked about with her?" Me: "I feel kind of awkward about it, but OK. I wasn't initially going to tell her your name,but then she asked, and I was kind of concerned that she would know you--and she doesn't. Actually I was worried by some freak chance it would be one of your backup T's." T: "Well, they both work out of this office. It would have been a bit passive-aggressive if you'd chosen one of them." Me: "Yeah...because then you might have seen me in the waiting room." T: "Exactly, like you were doing it just to make it clear that I knew what you were doing."

Me: "So with the T I consulted with, K, before I went in, I wrote up some notes. I didn't even end up looking at them. But I started with positive things from the therapy, then ended up writing...less-positive things?" T: "Side effects?" Me: "Yes, side effects, that's a good way to put it--you could list them on your business card in tiny print like in the drug ads." T: "Helps with depression but may cause a strange rash." Me: "Well, at least I haven't had the strange rash side effect yet!"

I mentioned a few things I talked to her about, including transference. And I told T that she said he clearly doesn't understand transference, that pretty much all adults in therapy have some form of transference. I forget what he said to that. Maybe nothing?

We went back to Monday's session and what had affected me so much. I talked about how I felt weird about our discussion about backup T's. How it turned out they were mainly just for crisis. And how he'd said if I liked one better and opted to switch to them, that would be problematic, because then one of them would have "stolen" his client. Me: "It bothers me because I'd like to think you would just want what's best for me, even if it's one of your backups. And the stolen makes me feel like property or something." He said that must have come out wrong. And that of course he does want what's best for me.

I said how with the dream, I'd figured we'd just end up discussing ex-MC. And he took it in a different direction than I'd expected, by saying he got the sense I wasn't getting what I needed from therapy. T: "Well, that's the sense I got from your dream. It seemed like your emotions in it were really strong." Me: "Yeah...but I guess it felt to me like you were saying, 'I can tell you're not getting what you need--or maybe want?--from therapy, but I'm not going to give it to you.' And I didn't know where to go with that. It suggested you felt like I needed to see someone else to get my needs met. And, like, I know that would be the ethical thing to do, but I guess there's this part of me that wanted you to be like, 'I want to make this work with you' or something. And then at the end, I asked you, 'Are you saying I need to see someone else?' And you said, 'We haven't figured that out yet,' it was just upsetting to me, but we only had a minute left, so..." T: "Well, we hadn't figured it out." Me: "Yeah...I guess not."

Me: "I guess I just think of a couple months ago when you said maybe I needed a more warm and fuzzy T." T: "I don't think I told you that--I think I asked if maybe that's what you thought would be better?" Me: "Yeah, I guess it was more of a question." T: "Have you thought about that more?" Me: "Well, it's like I said then, part of me wants that. But I think it would lead me down a bad path of being dependent, not wanting to leave them. Kind of like how you said if I hadn't had the rupture with ex-MC, you wondered if I'd ever leave him because of the good feelings I got." T: "Yes." Me: "It's like...the younger part of me, maybe the more emotional part of me wants that, but the more intellectual, adult part realizes that it's better for me in the long run to not be with someone like that." I forget what he said to that.

Me: "And with ex-MC, it's like you've said before, there was some enmeshment there." T: "Yes, you both definitely played into what happened there." Me: "Yeah, and I don't see any danger of you getting enmeshed with me."

I think I mentioned how he's said I think about therapy/therapeutic relationship too much. T: "I'm just concerned with how therapy is affecting you. You talk about being upset after session sometimes. And I worry that therapy is taking away energy that could be used in other parts of your life, like family or hobbies." Me: "Yeah, I think about that, too. I was talking to H the other night, and he said it's like I can lose a whole day at times, like being kinda out of it." T: "Yes, I don't want therapy to leave you feeling so bad." Me: "I mean, I know it's not like it's always going to be happy, like I'm going to be skipping and singing out of the office. But still...I'm not sure what the solution is. I'm going to be ruminating about something regardless because of how my mind works."

T: "I don't know. What do you think?" Me: "I mean, maybe I should try only coming once a week? Or take a break from therapy entirely?" T: "Or if you wanted to see someone else for a bit, you can always come back here." Me: "I know, thanks. Or maybe I just need to not discuss it so much with people, like if I took a break from PC?" T: "You seem to be thinking about this very scientifically. Any of those would be experiments you could try." Me: "And I guess none are irreversible." T: "Exactly. I'd only suggest that if you're trying something, you do that for at a minimum 10-14 days, so you could really tell the effects." Me: "Yeah, and if it was coming here less often, it would probably need to be longer." T: "Yes. But if you tried it and realized you needed to come in a second time, that would be OK too."

Me: "I guess another thing with being upset after session...it's that sometimes some major thing will come up in the last few minutes. Sometimes it's my doing--I told a friend I need a shock collar to stop me from doing that or something. But other times it's a comment you make." T: "Hm, so maybe we need to make the last 5 or 10 minutes lighter?" Me: "Yeah, maybe. Though then what if something came up with 11 minutes left?" T: "It's all stuff to think about." Me: "Yeah."

Me: "I figure I can see how things go and how I feel the week you're away. Because my intention is not to contact you at all, unless there was a major crisis." T: "If you end up emailing me, it's OK. I'll just reply the next day. It's not like you're a lawnmower I'm working on that I'd just throw a tarp over and get back to when I get home. You're a person, you're my client, and I have a responsibility to you." Me: "Thanks."

We were almost over time. T asked if I'd made any decisions. I said I wanted to stick with him for now, that I thought this had been a good conversation. Confirmed next week, went over to pay. He handed me a business card with both backup Ts' info on it. I thanked him and paid. As he shook my hand, T said: "Have a good weekend--doctor's orders!" I smiled and said, "Thanks, I'll do my best. You, too." T: "Take care." Me: "You too."

I'm not sure how well it came out in the writeup, but it really feels like he cares and just wants what's best for me. It felt like a good, important discussion, that I imagine will be an ongoing one. And I think it cleared the air about some things.

[DP_2017]

Lt

Sounds good and productive. I really like that he pointed put clients have more power. I agree and it's not common to see therapists admit that so I respect him for it

I am glad you have a better sense of future plans. I hope you finds something that works for you

[JaneTennison1]

I love that your T picked up on how much therapy bleeds into your real life and is trying to look at that with you. It sounds sometimes like you could use a break from it and I hope you find it.

[Glowworm80]

Seems like a good session LT. Love your honesty with your T. I understand the feeling of therapy seeming to take over life.

Something I am wondering. If you change to another therapist what do you hope will be different with them? What do you think they can give you that this T will not? These are just questions I’m wondering...might be worth exploring what it is you think might be more helpful for you. Is it that he is not warm enough?

You do seem to have a good rapport with this T and he allows out of session contact that he charges for. That might not be enough though.

[NP_Complete]

I like his lawnmower analogy.

Sounds like an intense but overall good session.

[healed84]

LT- as much as you may doubt this now, I think your t is a good mixture of hard-***/but compassionate and that I think is the kind of t you need. He at the same time can understand your transference (I think he really gets it) and affirms those feelings, but keep boundaries and not become enmeshed as he noted you and mc seemed to get tangled in. I think consciously or not you sense that from him, and you get afraid and want to find another t who you may feel you have a little more control over, or somebody who seems a little more “emotional.” If you are going to stick with therapy I really think current t is the right guy. I think you two will do great work together. However, as always just another opinion take it or leave it