T and emails.

Mountaindewed · Jun 13, 2020, 10:12 AM

At the last session my therapist said I was getting too needy with my emails and I was using them for reassurance so she said she wasn’t going to reply to them anymore. I sent one on Thursday night but said two different times I was not expecting a reply and that I’d talk to her at the next session about it.

Then this morning I got an email from her asking me how I was doing. And she said “ I want you to know why I’m not replying to the emails anymore.” uh, she is replying though. I went off a bit and said that I had told her she didn’t need to reply to that email and that I was dealing with a sick cat and that her emailing me after saying she wouldn’t really upset me. She replied back that she was sorry for emailing me and she was offering nothing but support.

I just don’t have time for this. I feel like this is a mind game. She said she wouldn’t reply yet she did. And just to tell me she wasn’t going to reply. It almost felt like she emailed me this morning because she was bored.

What are your thoughts?

MissUdy · Jun 13, 2020, 10:45 AM

Maybe she was bored..maybe she checked in with all her clients and didn’t want to leave you out? Maybe she felt bad about cutting off the email support. Or could it be that she meant she isn’t going to reply to your emails instantly, so you don’t rely on her so much? It does seem Very confusing for her to reply saying she isn’t going to reply.

WastingAsparagus · Jun 13, 2020, 10:54 AM

In my experience, sometimes therapists are weird about boundaries. My thought is that if the therapist is doing an effective job, not too many emails should have to be sent. But if someone is really struggling, I feel like not replying to emails is not good, unless it's counterproductive to some issue that the client is working on in therapy. My idea is to talk directly to your therapist in your next session in person, (or virtual, most likely), but tell her how you feel about this. Tell her exactly what you said here. It's good to ask directly about things like this, in my experience. Say something like, I don't understand why you aren't responding to emails anymore. It makes me feel... when you do this.

Jun 13, 2020, 11:05 AM

If you don't have time for mind games around email boundaries, don't email her. You can set your own limits about email contact, you do not have to try and rely on her unreliable boundaries. Email exchanges are an important part of my therapy, but they definitely present problems as well.

Salmon77 · Jun 13, 2020, 11:12 AM

I agree it's inconsistent and confusing for her to send an email after saying that she would not reply to yours. I doubt it's a "mind game," though, it doesn't sound like she has some evil intent like that. Maybe she was concerned by something you wrote on Thursday and just wanted to check in.

Rive. · Jun 13, 2020, 11:41 AM

I don't think it's a mind-game. I think she just messed up.

It's difficult sometimes to know what to do for the best for clients. There is a thin line between seeing to clients' needs and respecting boundaries so as to avoid e.g. dependency etc. So, I can imagine them making mistakes, despite having good intentions.

I would have a chat with her about this inconsistency. It would only be fair to you.

Omers · Jun 13, 2020, 12:40 PM

My T and I have a similar dynamic. I have told him I don’t need a reply unless I ask for one. That is my boundary and I have put it out there. What he chooses (seeing as it is more about him than me) is up to him. That works for me.
So sorry about the cat. I have two having troubles right now and I know how much it can take out of you.

*Beth* · Jun 13, 2020, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WastingAsparagus

In my experience, sometimes therapists are weird about boundaries.....

I agree!

Maybe it's because clients tend to scrutinize our therapist's behaviors. Maybe it's because they are just people, after all. But it seems to me that my therapist frequently changes some of her boundaries. For example, she sent me several meditations and articles by email. She mailed one article to me (post). So I emailed her in return 3 times. The first 2 times, she responded. The 3rd time she didn't, but commented in session that she'd received my 3rd email - and she said it with a weird expression on her face, no comment on the email. I have the feeling she doesn't like receiving emails from me. Who knows why? Probably she would rather I bring things up during sessions.

Yet, I am confused. Why did she send me emails in the first place if she didn't want me to email her in return?

I suppose therapists do something, then change their mind about it, just like anyone might.

Jun 13, 2020, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BethRags

Maybe it's because clients tend to scrutinize our therapist's behaviors.

I totally agree with this. Increasingly, I am aware that my attention to what my therapist says far outweighs her attention to what she says. Our sessions hold much more significance for us than they do for them so it easy for us to highlight their inconsistencies or contradictions. The reality is that humans are messy and we are not in therapy with robots - not yet at least. Obviously this is often confusing or painful or destabilising for us, but hopefully the therapist is skilled enough to work through that with us.

Omers · Jun 13, 2020, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I totally agree with this. Increasingly, I am aware that my attention to what my therapist says far outweighs her attention to what she says. Our sessions hold much more significance for us than they do for them so it easy for us to highlight their inconsistencies or contradictions. The reality is that humans are messy and we are not in therapy with robots - not yet at least. Obviously this is often confusing or painful or destabilising for us, but hopefully the therapist is skilled enough to work through that with us.

T and I have talked about what each of us remembers from session. I can do an insanely accurate verbatim a year and a half later of anything he said. He remembers the general feel and flow of the session along with any major topics that came up. I have noticed that working with a more experienced/seasoned T helps with this. Newer T’s are still trying to prove themselves and find their boundaries and so can be really inconsistent (and annoying). Very seldom do they have the maturity or self awareness to own their changing selves. Current T is the most experienced T I have worked with and he is far more consistent in his boundaries.

Jun 13, 2020, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omers

T and I have talked about what each of us remembers from session. I can do an insanely accurate verbatim a year and a half later of anything he said. He remembers the general feel and flow of the session along with any major topics that came up. I have noticed that working with a more experienced/seasoned T helps with this. Newer T’s are still trying to prove themselves and find their boundaries and so can be really inconsistent (and annoying). Very seldom do they have the maturity or self awareness to own their changing selves. Current T is the most experienced T I have worked with and he is far more consistent in his boundaries.

I think that's true too. Although, assuming that experience and seasoning (!) come with age, I think that memory loss associated with the ageing process starts to come into play as well. I notice my therapist struggling with recall and I recognise it as an age associated thing because my partner (who is also much older than me) is similar. I attended a webinar recently hosted by an older and retired therapist. She talked about her experiences of memory loss and age and highlighted this as one of the reason that she had retired. Of course, if my therapist retires, I will become apoplectic.

Mountaindewed · Jun 13, 2020, 05:12 PM

I had my mom look at the email she sent me and my mom says it does sound contradictory. At times this women almost seems like one of those secret sociopaths or whatever you call them. Don’t they sometimes go into the mental health field? I remember one time telling her that I thought my boss knew I had said something (I had told a couple coworkers and T) because the boss was doing things differently. My T said “did you think I was the one who told your boss?” I looked confused and said “why would I think that?” And she said “I was just wondering” her comment made me feel a bit paranoid. Not exactly like gaslighting but almost like.

I’ve read about similar cases in this book called “The Sociopath Next Door” they hide themselves very well.

Jun 13, 2020, 05:43 PM

Women seem like secret sociopaths? Is that a typo?

I don't think sending a couple of emails to a client and asking an unexpected question suggests that someone is a sociopath.

susannahsays · Jun 13, 2020, 05:48 PM

She doesn't sound like some sort of master manipulator or sociopath from what you've said, just sloppy and a bit careless. I don't really follow where the sociopath idea is coming from based on what you've written here and other times about her, but I could be missing something.

susannahsays · Jun 13, 2020, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

Women seem like secret sociopaths? Is that a typo?

I don't think sending a couple of emails to a client and asking an unexpected question suggests that someone is a sociopath.

I think it was a typo and was meant to be "woman." I have seen a study that showed there are higher levels of covert narcissism in therapists than the average population, although that's not the exact same thing. But I think that may be what OP is sort of referring to.

Mountaindewed · Jun 13, 2020, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

Women seem like secret sociopaths? Is that a typo?

I don't think sending a couple of emails to a client and asking an unexpected question suggests that someone is a sociopath.

I don’t know. It looked right to me. My bad if it’s wrong. I am super tired right now and it’s been a rough week.

Mountaindewed · Jun 13, 2020, 06:04 PM

And it’s not just the emails and stuff it’s the weird looking smile she’s always giving me and the “I was thinking of calling you last night when I got the email that you were in crisis” type things she does. Also one time I had just come out her office in a crisis and she told me she was incredibly concerned about me and I had my mom call her to make sure an ambulance wasn’t going to show up at my house. My therapist laughed and said “I’m not going to call an ambulance” Yet she was so worried 10 minutes before.

It just seems like she goes back and forth a lot and contradicts herself and can’t always catch herself when she messes up.

susannahsays · Jun 13, 2020, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaindewed

I don’t know. It looked right to me. My bad if it’s wrong. I am super tired right now and it’s been a rough week.

The question is are you speaking about women as a generalization?

Women = plural
Woman = singular

Mountaindewed · Jun 13, 2020, 06:12 PM

I meant woman.

susannahsays · Jun 13, 2020, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mountaindewed

And it’s not just the emails and stuff it’s the weird looking smile she’s always giving me and the “I was thinking of calling you last night when I got the email that you were in crisis” type things she does. Also one time I had just come out her office in a crisis and she told me she was incredibly concerned about me and I had my mom call her to make sure an ambulance wasn’t going to show up at my house. My therapist laughed and said “I’m not going to call an ambulance” Yet she was so 10 minutes before.

It just seems like she goes back and forth a lot and contradicts herself and can’t always catch herself when she messes up.

I feel like you don't really understand what a sociopath is...

This is not sociopathic behavior, this is just being a weirdo with weak boundaries.

Regarding the email situation, I know from following your posts in the Dear T thread that she has expressed that she wishes you would email less or not at all for some time now. And it seems like at least once you have decided to stop. Is it a compulsion to email her? I think I remember you even deleted her address at one point.

susannahsays · Jun 13, 2020, 06:17 PM

Also, I now picture your therapist like this for some reason.

tenor (10).gif

Mountaindewed · Jun 13, 2020, 06:21 PM

I did delete her email a couple weeks ago because it was becoming an issue. Then she wanted me to email her about something. So I had to ask her to give it to me. And she just kept on insisting I email her. Then last Thursday I mentioned finding the emails to be a problems so she said she wouldn’t reply but then I deleted her email again. And I was doing just fine until I got the one from her this morning.