[*Beth*]

Since switching from in-person sessions to televideo my therapist has changed the format of my therapy from trauma work and CBT to (pretty much) only CBT.

One of the aspects of CBT includes (as most of you probably know) affirmations. Every session my therapist reads a list of affirmations to me. Some of them are

"I am safe and sound. All is well."
"There is a great reason this is unfolding before me now."
"I muster up more hope and courage from deep inside me."
"I choose to find hopeful and optimistic ways to look at this."

And so on.

I want to incorporate the affirmations into my life as much as possible. The problem is that whenever I read them or hear them I think of scenes such as

(POSSIBLE TRIGGERS!!!)




In a concentration camp people lined up for the gas chamber.

Someone has been abducted by a serial killer and is facing her murder.

And so on.

I mean...say a person is holding her child by the hand and is in line to enter the gas chamber. Is she really going to say to herself, "There is a great reason this is unfolding before me now"?

Am I totally missing something? I would love to hear feedback from others on this.

[NP_Complete]

Sounds like How to Gaslight Yourself 101. But I don't really like most of the CBT I've seen and I wouldn't go to a therapist where that was one of the main modalities they were using with me.

[SlumberKitty]

Yeah, I have to say, I'm not really fond of CBT. Stuff like that just doesn't resonate with me. I actually made it like 9 months with Pastor T doing CBT. That is the longest I have gone with any T doing CBT.

[MissUdy]

I think I know what you mean, I have had therapists do that with me before. The problem is they are very similar to things people have said to me while abuse was taking place (it’s all for the best, you are safe with me, part of a bigger plan etc) so I can’t stand to hear them, never mind say them to myself. I know it’s all part of why I am the way I am.

It’s good to have compassion though, as you said with your example, empathising with a woman and child and how she may feel in that situation. I find meditation helps if I’m thinking about things like that, so you can send compassion out to all beings.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by NP_Complete

Sounds like How to Gaslight Yourself 101. But I don't really like most of the CBT I've seen and I wouldn't go to a therapist where that was one of the main modalities they were using with me.

I love that - Gaslight Yourself 101 I will definitely think that one over.

If you're up for sharing them, what are some reasons that CBT isn't for you?

I also dislike CBT. The serial killer and concentration camp examples which you describe are relevant to existential therapy - what choices do we have, what is essential to our way of being and so on. It might be worth doing some reading around that kind of therapy, even if your therapist doesn't work within that modality.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

Yeah, I have to say, I'm not really fond of CBT. Stuff like that just doesn't resonate with me. I actually made it like 9 months with Pastor T doing CBT. That is the longest I have gone with any T doing CBT.

Does it seem kind of fake to you? Or overly simple?

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by MissUdy

I think I know what you mean, I have had therapists do that with me before. The problem is they are very similar to things people have said to me while abuse was taking place (it’s all for the best, you are safe with me, part of a bigger plan etc) so I can’t stand to hear them, never mind say them to myself. I know it’s all part of why I am the way I am.

It’s good to have compassion though, as you said with your example, empathising with a woman and child and how she may feel in that situation. I find meditation helps if I’m thinking about things like that, so you can send compassion out to all beings.

Thank you! The compassionate meditation really resonates with me.

[SlumberKitty]

Originally Posted by BethRags

Does it seem kind of fake to you? Or overly simple?

Yes, both of those things. And I feel like I'm supposed to feel better, so I will tell the therapist that I feel better because otherwise I get accused of not doing the therapy right. No offense to anyone to whom CBT is helpful, but to me it just feels like you're just supposed to be able to think your way out of your problems. If you change your thoughts, you'll change your emotions, and you'll change your behaviors. Never worked for me.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

I also dislike CBT. The serial killer and concentration camp examples which you describe are relevant to existential therapy - what choices do we have, what is essential to our way of being and so on. It might be worth doing some reading around that kind of therapy, even if your therapist doesn't work within that modality.

I appreciate that you gave it a name. "Existential therapy" is definitely something I'm going to look into. I can read about it on my own, it might even be more helpful than involving a therapist.

I have read and studied Camus, Sarte, Simone de Beauvoir and I've always felt (uncomfortably) comfortable with Existentialism. But I haven't looked into existential therapy.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by BethRags

I've always felt (uncomfortably) comfortable with Existentialism

That's a lovely way of expressing it.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

Yes, both of those things. And I feel like I'm supposed to feel better, so I will tell the therapist that I feel better because otherwise I get accused of not doing the therapy right. No offense to anyone to whom CBT is helpful, but to me it just feels like you're just supposed to be able to think your way out of your problems. If you change your thoughts, you'll change your emotions, and you'll change your behaviors. Never worked for me.

Thank you for your input, SlumberKitty. I feel like if I don't tell my therapist that the CBT techniques are working I'm letting her down. Like, she's trying so hard to come up with her best way of doing therapy while using video and I feel horribly guilty if I shoot down her plan.

I'm not saying that CBT is entirely unhelpful for me, because I find that I am gaining some success with it. I just have questions that nag at my mind. Maybe the questions are a resistance to change. Maybe they're an intuitive sense that this CBT stuff is BS. I just don't know yet.

So you've stopped seeing Pastor T? I know you were trying to decide whether or not to continue with him.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by comrademoomoo

That's a lovely way of expressing it.

Hahaha,thanks

[SlumberKitty]

Originally Posted by BethRags

So you've stopped seeing Pastor T? I know you were trying to decide whether or not to continue with him.

Yes, but not because of CBT. It was because he was pushing me quite hard to be more social and make new friends and that wasn't my goal of being in therapy but he just wouldn't let it go. Like a dog with a bone. So I told him our goals were diverging and that I needed to stop. But I still see Regular T.

[stopdog]

I found cbt to be useless and harmful

[nottrustin]

Sometimes I struggle with CBT. T is quite eclectic with her modalities but there have been times where she has used CBT and it felt totally invalidating. Once it caused an issue. To say I was angry is an understatement. She recognized it the end that while she should of been supporting me and hearing my pain she was using CBT. Now she will often say that she is going to utilize CBT so she is not invalidating my feelings and thoughts but is offering a different perspective. Still dislike CBT..

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

Yes, but not because of CBT. It was because he was pushing me quite hard to be more social and make new friends and that wasn't my goal of being in therapy but he just wouldn't let it go. Like a dog with a bone. So I told him our goals were diverging and that I needed to stop. But I still see Regular T.

Yes. I agree with your decision. At first, when I was in therapy with my current T, she assumed I wanted to be more social, make new friends. I didn't want either one. Not at all. She pushed for it for some time, but thankfully let it drop. I think she finally took me seriously.

I'm glad you're still seeing your regular T. Seems like a good plan.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I found cbt to be useless and harmful

Hi stopdog. What are a few of the ways you found CBT harmful?

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

Sometimes I struggle with CBT. T is quite eclectic with her modalities but there have been times where she has used CBT and it felt totally invalidating. Once it caused an issue. To say I was angry is an understatement. She recognized it the end that while she should of been supporting me and hearing my pain she was using CBT.

Nailed it.

I'm feeling some benefit from CBT, but there's also a sticking point. I had not been able to name the problem until you named it. That's it: I feel like my therapist is using CBT (especially for teletherapy) as an alternative to doing trauma work (which we had been doing when the shut-down occurred) because CBT is what's available now. Not necessarily what's best for me, but the best she can do over the computer screen. For example, tools such as the sand tray obviously aren't available at this time.

I do feel benefit from CBT...just not quite enough. Or...not entirely "right." Where's anger supposed to go, for example? What happens to negative feelings when we do CBT work?

Now she will often say that she is going to utilize CBT so she is not invalidating my feelings and thoughts but is offering a different perspective. Still dislike CBT..

I understand. It's a positive, though, that she let's you know what her planned technique is. Do you still tell her that you don't like CBT or do you go along with it until she changes methods?

Thank you very much, nottrustin!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[susannahsays]

I don't care for CBT. Your example in your first post is the type of thought that runs through my mind when anybody says I should tell myself nonsensical platitudes. My therapist says I'm too negative. I don't think I am. I am a realist and I see no benefit in pulling the wool over my own eyes. Fairytales aren't going to help me deal with reality.

[zoiecat]

My therapist does CBT totally different. He starts with what is my negative thoughts and specifically mention three frames pertaining to that thought. When he mentions ideas he always ask me if those are believable or not. He says we have to find reframes that seem believable to me. If not, it is not going to work. I could be wrong but it sounds like your therapist is just listing the kitchen sink of positive affirmations. Maybe if they were focusing them on your particular issues and making sure that each one that you are working on is believable to you it would be easier. I also find that the CBT reframes don't necessarily work for me right away but my therapist says to just plant the seed and eventually some of it might start growing. I have found this to be true usually months later things will start clicking in my head but again if they were never halfway believable in the beginning it's useless.

[Omers]

My T is pretty existential although I don’t recall him calling himself that. Imo he is pretty awesome. He does donthe affirmations BS with me and I don’t do well with them for different reasons.
As for CBT I have severe trauma. At first CBT seemed to help as it decreased the severity of the symptoms and then that T went “whelp, that’s the best you are capable of... see ya!”. I felt like there was more to healing so I kept searching. CBT has its place but it isn’t with me! My wounds festered and got worse under the bandaid of CBT. Now in trying to work with current T all the CBT crap is so automatic it is interfering with T’s ability to work with me.

[nottrustin]

[understand. It's a positive, though, that she let's you know what her planned technique is. Do you still tell her that you don't like CBT or do you go along with it until she changes methods?

QUOTE=BethRags;6867881]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/QUOTE]

I forgot to mention in the initial response. A couple of days after the appointment we ended up talking on the phone because I was so upset. I told her that I dislike CBT especially in the incident we had been discussing. That day I had to go with my young adult daughter to the Boston Police to file a report after being assaulted by somebody. It was a very painful experience and I was devistated. Some of things she talked about was that my daughter was an adult, wasnt hurr that badly, would be okay, etc. I was a mess. At the end of the appointment she did say she handled the appointment wrong but then we wrapped up.

On the phone I mentioned all of the things that she said really bother me. I told her that I have never really liked CBT even when my long term T tried to use it. I told her when I am very emotional trying to make me think positive feels like she is saying my feelings and emotions are wrong. When she tells uses it know she tells me ahead of time that she is not saying my feelings aren't appropriate or Justified just that she would like to help me see it from a different perspective. So far I have been okay with that because as I said I know she is not invalidating

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

[understand. It's a positive, though, that she let's you know what her planned technique is. Do you still tell her that you don't like CBT or do you go along with it until she changes methods?

QUOTE=BethRags;6867881]~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I forgot to mention in the initial response. A couple of days after the appointment we ended up talking on the phone because I was so upset. I told her that I dislike CBT especially in the incident we had been discussing. That day I had to go with my young adult daughter to the Boston Police to file a report after being assaulted by somebody. It was a very painful experience and I was devistated. Some of things she talked about was that my daughter was an adult, wasnt hurr that badly, would be okay, etc. I was a mess. At the end of the appointment she did say she handled the appointment wrong but then we wrapped up.

On the phone I mentioned all of the things that she said really bother me. I told her that I have never really liked CBT even when my long term T tried to use it. I told her when I am very emotional trying to make me think positive feels like she is saying my feelings and emotions are wrong. When she tells uses it know she tells me ahead of time that she is not saying my feelings aren't appropriate or Justified just that she would like to help me see it from a different perspective. So far I have been okay with that because as I said I know she is not invalidating[/QUOTE]

Ugh, that sounds like an extremely difficult and emotionally painful situation.

I really like that your therapist has made it clear that when she uses CBT she is not invalidating your feelings.

[*Beth*]

What an informative and powerful thread! Wow!

I want to thank each one of you for sharing your experiences and ideas. I feel like I have a much better sense of what CBT is all about now, and what I can use that is helpful - as well as the parts of CBT that I might do well to be wary of (superficial platitudes, for example).

My T is a terrific woman and we're both having to do major adjusting to teletherapy. It's a rough ride with, unfortunately, no end in sight, since we're having a higher incidence of covid cases in California at this time.

I'm definitely good with using some CBT techniques that are helpful for me. But I want to be cautious of the "bandaid" effect. So I'm going to discuss the benefits I'm feeling from CBT, and also my concerns about certain aspects of it with my therapist.