[MissCharlotte]

I know we've discussed this before but I think I have a better understanding of it now. Sometimes I wish T could hold me. But that "me" is the child within, not the adult me. The adult me has other touch fantasies, some of a sexual nature.

I know that some people can have a safe hug and it works for him but that would not be the case for me.

The truth is, if he hugged me I would have a heart attack and it would feel like he crossed over a line he shouldn't!! I would not be able to do therapy with him anymore.

Any thoughts on your experience?

[Mouse_]

Well I posted before about asking T if she would hug if I asked her too, and she replied that she would if I asked, but that we would have to talk about why I wanted her too.

Just asking that question was the hug I was wanting at that time, and I do feel that if T and I were to hug on a regular basis I would feel as if she was just another person and not a T, and I need to her to be that T right now and not just another person. But saying that, I am not a hugger in general, I find its awkard and and sureal.

This is just my feelings.

[chaotic13]

Sister I can't say that I've daydreamed or fantasied about my T touching me. I watched the Laura episode of that HBO Treatment show online this week. I think if I had a male therapist, I might have adult fantasies about him too.

Although physical touch is not something I am seeking at the moment, comfort, acceptance, and safety are things I am seeking in my world. I've been thinking a lot about my next session and the anxiety I am feeling about it. Part of me wants to just let everything go--but in actuality this is impossible for me . At one point this week I let myself fantasize about the perfect therapy session. For me I imagined myself curling up in a tight ball in the corner of her office couch, resting my head on the arm rest, closing my eyes, and just speaking the thoughts running through my head. Obviously, in this fantasy, her couch is a different color and has a much nicer pattern. :-)

Well I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone in fantasizing about impossibilities.

[Perna]

My T's background was really different from mine and she was physically much smaller (in all ways) and it was interesting when wishes would get strong and I'd think about them realistically. It would have been uncomfortable I think to actually hug because of our differences in size and her style was not huggy and mine isn't even close to huggy so it would have been really awkward and I don't think anything would have been gained by it.

I did have a group therapist and we started with a handshake when I left each session because she said I needed touch (huh?). And eventually we went to hugs. Another guy in the group glomped on and demanded to hug her too so that made it a bit different. I was too frozen and she had MS so was seated so it was awkward in any event.

[Mouse_]

Perna LOL!, I'm about 5'6 and my T is about 4' and can't see her inches LOL! so If I were to hug her, her feet would leave the ground and she'd be smoothered in my bossoms LOL!. me Tarzan you jane springs to mind LOL!

[allthegirls6]

This is one of those on going threads. My T hugs and touches me and it feels good. I can however understand that some people might not feel comfortable. I suppose its what ever works.

[Perna]

Are we the same person or have the same T, Mouse? Same measurements. My T is Asian. She actually had to miss a couple sessions to go to Bangkok to a wedding so I started singing Murray Head's "One Night in Bangkok" to her

and she was fascinated, had never heard it; even referred to it, asked about it several years later. Made an impression on her (not my singing, the words :-) I had a dream about "Taiwanese businessmen" too, that was important. Our brains are truly wonderful that they can use stuff wholly new and out of character for them and make it work to heal.

[Mouse_]

Perna I'm sure your singing was a delight!



NOT! LOL! sorry Im in a silly mood LOL!

[Perna]

Silly's good. I'm sure I surprised my T with singing as I don't do "spontaneous" stuff like that; she had trouble trying to get me to breathe together with her. That freaks me out, I have trouble with having an MRI where they ask you to breathe when they tell you too, I panic and can't figure out how to inhale/exhale properly or in time to get a deep breath when they say to hold it.

But how hard is, "One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster!" to sing? That's pretty much all I know spontaneously, I have to have the song in the background to remember any other words. My stepson knows the words better (and can sing better) so I get to wishing for him.

[Kiya]

My t is sort of touchy - and it sort of confuses me. Sometimes she does give hugs when leaving, if she thinks i am not doing well. It makes me feel a lot of things all at once; embarrassed, "is anyone watching?", run from the lobby, I usually turn around and walk right into the wall where the hall narrows, and sort of like "i am cared for" but i don't really unerstand it.
One night she reached out and squeezed my elboe twice. That was weird - i felt my bain seperate from my self and look down at my elobe to see what it was - like i don't really have elboes. see, i can't even spell the word - it looks funny.
I think i didn't "feel" about it, as much as i "thought" about it - it was too foreign an event to feel anything.

[Irine]

Ha!

Look at MY T!!
On the very first meeting, I was 17 then, at the end of it she asked if i wanted to give a hug...

I rememebr hasiteting a moment and crossed the room and hugged her. Every time I come to her..now it`s rare...we hug at the begining and at the end of ewach session.... she is really sweet..she is pretty much huggy and touchy...like you call it.

When cried for instance she was very nice and comforting.

I LOVE her.....I can`t say it otherwize!
I have never met such a nice perosn in my life

[SweetCrusader]

I have two Ts- one that I've been seeing for a long time, who I consider my "real T" and another that I see at our local Indian Walk-In Center because I went there looking to talk to someone about Native American beliefs (he's also a medicine man).

Anyway, "real" T... She has hugged me every session from the very beginning, and I love it. After about 5 years of therapy, I still look forward to her hugs at the end of every session My first session, I had shared some difficult stuff (I had known her for about two years previously as a professor, and felt comfortable with her) and at the end she said "Do you accept hugs from professors?" I couldn't believe she was offering me a hug, but I was sooo grateful because I really needed one. After that, it's just always seemed natural for us to hug. Sometimes I ask her for one, but most of the time it's just assumed. I feel that it's helped me build trust and attachment. It has also helped me because in the past I have often felt untouchable, like there was something wrong with me. I think the world of my T, and before I would have believed that someone as "good" as her wouldn't ever want to touch someone like me. T has helped me get over that feeling. A few times when processing early traumas, I've gotten very scared and overwhelmed, and she has sat with me on the floor and held me, and played with my hair. I wish I had the guts to ask her to do that more. I felt so cared for, and so so safe. It wasn't until I'd known her for many years, so it felt natural and appropriate to me.

Other T is male. I've known him for a few months now. He is very physically affectionate... and I get uncomfortable about that. Lately I think he has picked up on that, because he hasn't been touchy-feely. He often offers me a hug at the end of the session, which I do like. But he's also held my hand and rubbed my legs, which I don't like. I have a low tolerance for physical touch sometimes. I think he's finally picking up on that, because he's keeping more distance.

[sunrise]

I think whether hugs happen in therapy or not is due partly to the therapist's theoretical orientation, to the therapist's natural personality (is he reserved, distant, warm?), and partly due to what the client can handle. Nothing is black and white, but it seems that T's who are psychoanalytical/psychodynamic tend not to touch as much and T's from the humanistic psychology tradition incorporate "the hug" as needed or as is therapeutic. (I don't know what the training of behaviorists teaches.)

Some clients are not appropriate to touch, such as those who have suffered abuse who would consider it invasive, those with a lot of erotic transference, those who have a very strong "personal space", etc. If the T does use hugs on occasion, I think it's helpful if the T knows the client pretty well before offering one. (If anyone is watching the HBO show, "In Treatment," you will know what I mean by saying that it would be a disaster if the therapist hugged his client Laura, who is totally wrapped up in her erotic transference.)

My own experience is that my first counselor did not hug me, and it would have been strange if she offered. We were not close at all. (She was CBT.) My current therapist does hug occasionally. Usually it is after a session of particularly close attunement, or a grueling session where I shared a lot of my pain. In those cases, he will offer a hug on my way out, sometimes saying, "share a hug?" He opens his arms and I come into them. I always see it as an invitation and one that I do not have to accept. However, we are pretty attuned, so he would not offer me a hug if it wasn't right. I feel those hugs are natural extensions of what we have just experienced together. There are certainly many, many sessions we do not hug, and he has never offered a hug when it wasn't the right time or feeling, if that makes sense. There are also times during session, when he has said, from his place across from me, "I am sitting right here and holding you," and that "hands off" touching is also very powerful. I do not think he would ever cross the space between us when we are in "talk position", sit down next to me on the couch, and hug me.

Sister, I think what is most important is that the client know what is right for her. It sounds like you know that hugs would not be therapeutic for you and that your T knows that too. You guys are in sync!

Kiya, thank you for sharing your "elbow" feelings. I found your description very powerful and true--the unconscious bubbling up and knowing things are conscious brain does not recognize.

[chaotic13]

After reading this thread I couldn't help but think of the thousands of people around the world who line up for a simple hug by Amma the Hug Lady. It is amazing that touch can be very powerful. Where's Mr. Miyagi when you need him?

Oh, Perna thanks... I now have the One Night in Bangkok song is now stuck in my head. :-)

There's oodles of info out there that explores the deeper meanings and how it can being incredibly useful if the T is competant and comfortable dealing with it. Mishandled it can be bad. The sexual feelings have little to do with sex. Transference of any kind is useful.

the amount of touch is another hot topic out there.. no hard and fast rules. All a matter of the T/client relationship.

i do wish for a hug sometimes.. mostly because no one really touches me much and i have a deep belief that i am somehow repulsive that way or something. Even when people do hug me i discount the experience. i'd like to desensitize those beliefs and learn how to accept friendly safe touch. Right now though i think it would be too much for me. We don't touch at all. i don't have sexual thoughts or feelings about him and i'm happy about that right now. i know it would be ok to deal with that if it happened, but i would be overwhelmed if it happened now.

[Perna]

I can make it worse for you McKell, try clicking on this if you dare

[chaotic13]

LOL!!!! That is MUCH WORSE!!! LOL Don't quit your retirement to work in Vegas.

You're great Perna! Thanks

[ECHOES]

It is a good subject, sister! So many of us want that touch so much.

I did have a chance to hug my T once. A few months ago at the last session before her surgery, I asked if I could give her a hug. (How gracious and self-centered and sly of me.. I knew without a doubt that the hug was for me.) I was prepared for a No answer but she shocked me when she said "Sure". It felt so good to hug her and wish her well with her surgery, the details of which she didn't choose to disclose).

At a later session, I broght up again my desire to be comforted physically by her. I knew this was not part of therapy but was just talking of my desire and in truth would have jumped at the opportunity if she'd have offered. Instead she gently told me that if she felt it would be beneficial to me she would, but that in the long run she thought it would not be beneficial. I really liked that kind and gentle reply and let-down.

At an even later session, I asked her (one hand on the doorknob going out the door---so unfair to ask a question then!) if she would have allowed that hug if she had known of my desire to be physically comforted by her. She thought for a moment and said "Yes. It was appropriate for the moment.".

[Flowerb]

I asked my T if he was a touchy guy IRL - did he hold hands and hug, etc. We'd had kind of a tough talk about touch - he does not hug his patients, he said he decided for himself that this was best a long time ago. And I, at that point, wanted to hug him. He hesitated and said, "I don't want to upset you -- by not answering you'll reach a conclusion and by answering, I'm afraid you'll take it personal. " And then he said that yes, he liked to hold hands and he did give greeting hugs, etc. I sort of had guessed that about him, it fits his personality. But he worked hard to make it clear that this had nothing to do with me, it was his policy for all his patients.

I understood - but it hurt, still does sometimes. There is just so much longing for physical connection sometimes. Totally not about sex - it is about soothing. *sigh*

[Perna]

I remember when I "learned" to touch and was really enjoying it and telling my T about it next session and she warned me, "remember to keep it safe" which, when I think about it now, almost sounds like safe sex :-) One wonders what the world has come to when you have to be warned to keep your touching "safe".

My T is too formal to hug. I've never asked him but know that he would say, "No" if I did. Yes, I would love for him to hug me. However, I would feel like grabbing his ***** and pulling him closer while I did it. I don't think that would go over well, though. LOL

I really need/like touch in therapy. It helps me remain grounded, and reminds me that she is real. A firm grasp on my shoulder, or holding my hand and squeezing at appropriate times of needing that reminder that it's ok helps so much. We hug after every session, and whenever I see her.

[tsha]

I get hugs every so often and a hand on my back when I'm struggling. She knows I struggle with touch so she is careful.

omg soli... omg.. laughing SO hard