Couch 242: madam i'm adam

I am eating a bowl of instant mashed potatoes for dinner. It has been that kind of day.

Thanks! I like it a lot. Haven't had it this short in a long time and it feels very liberating indeed.

hugs if wanted @@. i'm sorry you're having an instant-mashed-potatoes-for-dinner kind of day.

I stopped at Taco Bell on the way home from L's to get a taco; every year on my dad's birthday (today) my mom, sisters, brother and I go to taco bell in his memory (he LOVED it) and take selfies that we send each other. it's been almost 10 years since he passed and the tradition continues.

Sorry you're having that kind of day. Though nothing wrong with a mashed potato dinner. I mean, I've had a potato chip dinner, so.

That's a really nice tradition. For years after my grandfather's death (he passed when I was like 8), at Christmas, the adults would do a shot of a particular bourbon (a less common one) that he drank. I got to join in when I was 21, and it was...not good (I've never really been a liquor drinker beyond mixed drinks made with vodka--more a beer person), but still nice to join in.

LT, I think you're so used to trying to predict Dr. T's reaction in order to not upset him or create conflict that you're doing the same thing with S. It seems likely that you can go and just talk to her and expect compassion and non-judgmental thoughts about the things that are on your mind. She already sounded like she was there for you from the first session, right?

Heading to bed... got an early morning of overtime tomorrow. Night couchies!

Hm, that could be about trying to predict her reaction--good point. She was very supportive of me. The thing is, she *was* quite judgmental about Dr. T when I talked to her in the consult. I know she was trying to support me. But at one point, she said he shouldn't even be a therapist (I'm sure many of you agree with that!) So how is she going to react if I say, "I'm going to stay with this person who you said shouldn't even be a therapist"? (Of course, I'm not going to word it that way to her.)

The more I think about it, it's also probably not good that she was as critical of him as she was. (Note that I did *not* share his name, and I almost mentioned one detail that could have suggested who he was, if she knew him, but I stopped myself.) I feel like she could have supported me--like, "Wow, that must have been difficult to hear"--without being negative about him. Or "It sounds like you're looking for a different type of therapist."

I just think it could have made it more difficult to process the ending with her, knowing her opinion of him. As I'd have had mixed feelings about the ending. I don't know if this makes any sense.

Really, I think meeting with her Tuesday would just make me more uncertain. I think it's better if I stick with my decision for now (and cancel with her), and if a month or 3 or 6 from now, realize I've made a terrible mistake, then I contact her and see if she has any openings.

I can't imagine that potential new T will tell you you're an idiot, nor bar you from seeing her in the future if you wanted to. I think it all depends on how you tell her that you have decided to continue with him.

Perhaps as EM also suggested, it would be better to say that on reflection you don't feel ready to start work with another T just yet. Then the door would be left open should you want to contact her again in the future... just a thought.

Another thing to consider is how seriously do you take Dr T's assertion that he is willing to discuss the therapy relationship with you in the future, when he hasn't been very keen on doing so in the past? Just something to bear in mind when going through all the pro's and con's of each (maybe you could actually write out a pro's and con's list for each T?)

I hope you can figure it out.

I read your other post @ SlumberKitty and hope you can stay safe this weekend until you can speak to your T next week.

Of course there is hope for you... we just can't always see it ourselves when times are tough. You make incredible efforts with your mental health to help keep yourself well. There is no shame in needing more support from time to time.

Sending virtual hugs if wanted.
E

LT—you have been through this so many times with Dr T. I can see this happening again in two months.

I said a few days ago I felt like I was talking to someone in a so-so or bad relationship, and I still feel that way. It’s nice he still wants to work with you, but here’s the thing: he wants YOU to accept his therapeutic approach. He’s not going to change, that’s clear even under his reassurance. YOU have to accept an approach that has caused you misery and pain for years.

It seems like for you it’s a decision focused around Dr T. If he wants to work with you, you’re his client. Nothing else matters. Where are YOU in that? Why does a relationship with so many problems depend on one person’s feelings? It’s not like you have kids together or you’re financially dependent on him. You’re a free agent. There are more fish in the sea than Dr. T.

May I suggest that you and Dr T take a break for a month or so, while you see the new therapist? A month away from him and an experience of a different therapeutic approach could help you make the decision for YOU.

The two I hired kept saying they were glad I kept hiring them - I see that as nothing more than something they are told to say in therapist school. I did not see it as any deep statement of commitment on their part.

I think that's a good way to word it.


Dr. T did seem serious yesterday in saying he understands that we need to talk about the therapeutic relationship at times, including now. Part of what he said in terms of that is that with his style of therapy, he prefers not to spend *too* much time on it rather than on outside things. And I know that I need to make some changes in my outside life (like work), so if I spend all the time talking about the relationship, then I won't get to working on those. (That's me saying that last part, not him.)

I'm wondering if it would help me, once we get through this patch, if I could try not focusing on the relationship so much. He's trying to teach me that it's OK to have a conflict, that the relationship is still fine. That the conflict is the weather and the relationship is the climate. Those are things I need to learn for outside relationships as well. So I'm wondering if maybe I could just try, well, weathering some more minor conflicts with him and trying to just trust in the bigger relationship. To maybe not make them something bigger than they are. To challenge myself with that.

I know you may be right. I do feel that I'm making this decision for me though. The reason I asked him that question is that it felt last Monday like he was just done with me. I needed to know if he was "all in" so to speak.

He was asking me if I thought I could accept his therapeutic philosophy, if I feel he's a "good enough" therapist for me, etc. He told me to think about that. Which I'm doing.

I understand what you're saying. And that you and others are trying to look out for me. And you're likely right that I may be back in this same place a month or two from now (hence my not wanting to burn bridges with the potential T). But this is just what feels right to me now. Something he's worked with me on (in general, not about this) is trusting my inner voice, rather than the thoughts/opinions of others. That's what I'm trying to do here.

Yes, otherwise any negative hint could be taken as abandonment. My t repeated himself about ten times when i left to make sure it was me, not him.

Im kinda surprised that LT can go to ground so eazily with Dr T. It reminds me of my mom, who always acted like she effin just met me. Like we had no past together. Or that the past we had was one where i waz her lifelong enemy. It was hard to wrap my mind around, because it was always completely unanticipated. Is this how LT feels with her parents?

My breakthru on this was like 3 years in, when it occurred to me that the busses were so reliable! My t was like, "um, hello? Over here!" I could not SEE his reliability. Just did not see it. Not something i grew up. Something i had to LEARN TO FEEL.

LT, I think you try to create the semblance of reliability (and to control other things) rather than let them grow organically. My last t was not perfect, but i decided at the beginning that i was not going to leave him for his imperfections. Because thats what my parents taught me - that no one was good enough.

This was my experience as well.

LT - L works with my on trusting my inner voice too. We call it my "golden finch" voice. Long story. Anyways... It's good that you're practicing it whether here or elsewhere. The only thing I notice is that it doesn't seem like you're trusting your inner voice with Dr. T. In fact, he silences you and I bet that brings up some shame and guilt. You are supposed to be free to talk about ANYTHING in therapy. And the relationship is such an important aspect for you (and many others), yet he will never be willing to fully dive into it.

Why are you so intent on staying with him? What are your fears if you leave? What are the good parts if you stay? Is that enough from a therapist?

I personally feel like he's emotionally abusive towards you, and likes to make you feel like it's your fault.

Do listen to your inner voice. Even if you make a mistake, you'll be okay. Just also listen to your inner voice about Dr. T.

Thanks, Kit. (Realized I never actually replied to this!) I do wonder whether he did a bit of soul searching? (I wish he did that more often in general.) And whether some of whatever he may have figured out is going to stick? When I actually left a few years ago (September before the pandemic, so I guess 2019?), he seemed different toward me for a long time after that, and things were much better. (I think he'd done some soul-searching), Then the pandemic hit, and he stayed the same (so don't know if it was that his shifting had become more permanent, if it was the pandemic's effect, or both).

I did call him out on some things yesterday. Like how he seems to have an acceptable level of email in his head, but won't tell me what that is, so I have no way of knowing when I'll cross that. Which did lead him to give an actual number. And told him that it's similar with some other things, where he might think something should be obvious to me, but it's not. That he needs to tell me. And that it bothered me that he said if he gave me a number, I'd just push up against it. Because he knows I'm someone who wants to follow the rules. Also about another comment he made Monday. He apologized for that.

I need to work on trusting that he cares, even though he doesn't regularly use the words that I want to hear. Not everyone is going to show me care in the exact way that I want it in life (H being one of them). I do need to hear it occasionally though.

Honestly, I would probably do just fine with Dr. T, but the whole therapeutic relationship thing was never my focus -- honestly was barely on my radar, so he actually reminds me a great deal of my last therapist who was fantastic for me BECAUSE his approach matched what I wanted and needed.

I don't like how this new therapist said he should never be a therapist -- that seems irresponsible and a bit arrogant to be honest -- not every therapist comes from the same school of thought nor does every client need the same type of therapist. But whatever . . . .

I DO think you need a therapist who is coming from a more relational school of thought/therapy because you keep trying to get Dr. T to be "that" therapist but that isn't his approach. It's like trying to "change" your spouse or your parents or something. His approach works for him and probably for most of his clients who have probably chosen him because that's the kind of therapist they need. It just seems like you are mismatched with his approach. That's not your fault. That's not his fault. But it is not something that can go on forever because it causes you too much anxiety.

I agree with what someone else said: Take a month or so off from Dr. T and try out this new therapist for size. Go ahead and tell him that is what you are doing. His feelings aren't going to be hurt. I doubt that you are the first client who has taken a break. You'll have a better feel for this new therapist in a month or so and be able to make a clearer decision. I do think this new therapist sounds more like what you need: more relational AND better boundaries AND female.

Just checking in.

I've been "adulting" the last few weeks, moving some finances around and updating legal paperwork. My husband has been gone almost two years, and while his legal and financial matters are finished up, the next stage is updating my own -- without him. No one tells you how long and tedious this part of "grief" is, and we had our legal and financial ducks in a row so it's actually gone relatively smoothly. I've heard of the nightmares some families are going through when matters were not so clear cut as our own. I cannot begin to imagine.

I'm heading into a concert week soon -- Mendelssohn and Parry -- so I basically told my sons that I'll see them the second week of March. Ha! I love what I do, but the weeks right before concerts are all-encompassing. I have a 3-day weekend to rest before that all begins which I am taking full advantage of.

My youngest son is in his first year of teaching elementary music. He teaches 750 K-5th graders, and it is such a pleasure to hear his stories. He is a fantastic teacher, MUCH more skilled that I was in my first year. Heck, he's probably more skilled than I was in my 5th year of teaching. His administrators love him and keep bringing in people to watch him at work. His students are rather obsessed with him which is pretty funny. But he's 6'3", male, super-energetic, and very effective with his students, and they had such a dud of a teacher the last few years, that he pretty much walks on water in their eyes.

I'm going to spend my long weekend reading, binge-watching Grantchester, and crocheting. I have church tomorrow and rehearsal Monday night, but otherwise I am all about relaxation.

I'm sorry for all the stress of changing the paperwork.

That's awesome about your son! Sounds like he's really making a difference at that school.

Hope the concerts go well.

These are all valid points. My main T had made some mistakes (nothing catastrophic but terribly painful on me) when I left her for a few months, and I was very grateful that EMDR T was not particularly critical of her as we worked through it. I think the closest she ever got was acknowledging the enormous impact on me and the fact that everybody makes mistakes sometimes (but she framed it in a less trite way!). If you want to leave Dr. T or take a break or stay with him, you should give yourself the space to feel like you're making that decision for yourself and your own reasons, and I think it's great that you are.

I'm curious about learning to trust in the relationship and that it's not going to end due to a conflict or that you won't be abandoned. Like, how does that work? What do you think would help get you there to that place of trust? At this point you have the experience of the relationship lasting for several years and weathering a decent number of conflicts and that has helped you somewhat. But it seems like you're resolving to just try harder now, and I don't know what that means. (Obviously you don't have to tell us, and I'm really not driving at a point or trying to convince you. I just wonder what will help you get there.)

I've been exploring some of my own OCD-like tendencies, and one of them is asking for reassurance from my spouse and/or checking that she still loves me (when she clearly does!). It ebbs and flows based on various factors in my life, and I find that I need the reassurance less when I feel better about myself and when I am calmer or less anxious on the inside. I don't know why or how to explain that, though. I am just wondering if some of the relationship issues and sources of conflict with Dr. T tie into the obsessive thing. (Like the confirmation text situation or worrying that he's dead when he travels.) Maybe there are ways of how Dr. T would treat OCD that would lessen your relational anxiety as a consequence of the treatment without having to talk about your relationship with him specifically?

Thanks, EM. Some good thoughts here. To answer your question, for me, trying harder is not jumping to email him if I feel some sort of insecurity or if we had a conflict. To think, "This will be OK. And we can just talk about it next session." And if he doesn't respond to me when expected (which is what happened 2 weeks ago, contributing to the most recent conflict), then telling myself "OK, he's probably busy, just give this another day." Instead of panicking that he's annoyed with something I said in the email and feeling the need to check in.

We did start talking about OCD more a few weeks ago (for some reason, it feels like the "dirty" part of diagnoses, and I prefer not to talk about it much--yes, I'm aware the "dirty" thing is sort of ironic, as some of it is fear of contamination!). I think it would help to address the OCD element more. As you're right, the texting about whether it's in person was partly tied to that, like, "The one time I don't text to check in will be the time he forgot and is at home." And my fears of something happening to him when he travels (I had the same fears about my parents, incidentally).

It's an absolutely beautiful 70 degrees F outside this afternoon so I went out for a little walk on the path near my house that goes up to the railroad tracks... did some more thinking while I was walking... now I'm trying to remember the thoughts that seemed so clear while I was walking. I shoulda brought my journal with me!