[Mouse_]

I have been reading a book on tales of psychotherapy and all of the people were revealing their intimate secrets within a short time frame and it appeared quite naturally. The books written by a therapist and he was adding his thoughts and feelings into the mix and some of them were quite cold I felt.

Of course this played on my mind and I feel that though I've gone in to T and "told" of things that have happened to me in my life, I haven' told T of my intense feelings around her and me and infact many times I feel as If I have no tongue and there are I feel a lot of silences.

Sooooooo I emailed T last night telling her about the book I read, about how it seems more talking freely by me is needed and the thought of doing that is like asking me to jump of a plane...that I dont know if I can tolerate being "caught out" by free association nor can I really reveal everything that is in my head freely like the cases in the book seem to have done...I'm waiting for a reply, she always replys and I wrote that late last night...

SOooooo I got to bed feeling slightly less neurotic for having got those worries of my mind and I have this dream...I dream I think I am living with T, not sure really because theres also a hanging feeling that I am just visiting and she has this chest freezer in the hall, where I have my old freezer...when I'm with her we make love, she starts by opening the freezer and when she opens that the dream immediately goes to her giving me oral sex, the going into the freezer excites me because I know thats where my virgina is....then this great sex repeats and then I have gone shopping for the ice cream and I rush upstairs where T is in bed, perhaps here I have a fague feeling its my mum up in bed but not to clear on that, then I am so pleased with myself because I got the ice cream and I've put them in the freezer this time and I want T to be really pleased with me, but theres not much feeling coming from her over this, then I begin to realise what the freezer really signifys, the pleasure I get from this freezer, and then I begin to realise that T is a woman that has been automatically giving me oral sex as if shes use to it, done it before and I realise then that shes been playing the role of a man and I hadn't realised this before, then I want to think about all the things my husband does but think of T doing them and how excited it feels to be doing this with a woman, that theres a really wonderful knowing that only 2 women could give each other, that compared to a man this seems so much more and then I realise T's being doing all the pleasing and perhaps she wonders why I haven't done this to her? At this point I feel inexperienced and an amature compared to her and I think about how does one give another woman oral sex? and suddenly I wake up and T seems to morph back to the position she really holds, that of my T and I ache for a sure while for the loss of the closeness I felt in the dream...

I am going to tell T about this on friday!! Perhaps reading that book has helped me find the courage to be more open and to know that a sexual dream doesn't always indicate sex...

[Mouse_]

T replied, A nice reasuring reply, that I am able to talk about deep stuff, but perhaps some need to free associate to be able to reach the deep stuff...that I do do what is needed to make therapy work...but still I ain't told her about THAT dream yet LOL!

[kim_johnson]

It is funny... The different theories. Freud thought that things went back to sex, at base. Other theorists think that sex is just another defense along the way to something else that lies at base. Attachment or whatever...

It is interesting how our expectations of how we are 'supposed to be' in therapy affect so much the kinds of concerns are raised for us during the week.

I spend a lot of time wondering what my therapist *wants* me to do / be... And I kind of know (because I have managed to get him talking about his theoretical perspective). But then I'm kind of rejecting of that, too, because I want to find my own path rather than using the sense making aspects that others found helpful for themselves. I don't know...

But I think that yeah, sex quite often stands in for some deeper need... You are brave :-)

[sunrise]

Mouse, I'm glad you got the note of reassurance from your T. It sounds like your way of doing therapy is working for you. But you can always try new things. I wonder if in that book, it was somewhat of a literary device that clients seemed to open up so quickly and shared such deep things right away? Because it would be boring to read of the months spent developing intimacy. I read a book about a handful of a therapist's clients, and I thought he gave a good sense of all this developing slowly. So at least for that therapist, the revealing and deepness was not overnight. What was the book, by the way?

If you can tell her the dream, you are very brave and have a established a great deal of trust.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
I spend a lot of time wondering what my therapist *wants* me to do / be

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">Kim, I don't necessarily wonder how my therapist wants me to be, but I do wonder what his sessions with other clients are like and it I "do" therapy like others or not. Sometimes he drops hints about how I am similar or different, likewise my couples therapy. Recently he said to me that when most couples who are divorcing and he is working with as a coach come see him, it is to work out issues with their kids. But with me and my H, that is never it. We deal quite well with that on our own. We come to see him for other stuff. That was really fascinating to me.

[gimmeice]

(((((((((( Mouse ))))))))))))
I think that it is great that you were able to figure out the meaning of your dream. I am also glad that your T replied to your email.

[kim_johnson]

i guess that for me in the past the therapists had a really clear view of:

- what therapy was supposed to be about
- the things that i would be reinforced for 'gee - that is insightful, or that is important, or that sounds really significant, or gosh you are working hard' vs the things that i wouldn't be reinforced for 'aren't you avoiding something else in talking about this or why don't we talk about that instead' or whatever...

now... i think my therapist does have a clear view... he is very much into the work of allan schore and he mentioned that he liked briere's stuff as well so i have read some of that... and i see what his take is.

i like his take much better than the take of previous therapists, don't get me wrong...

but i'm still determined that i need to find MY path and what is right and most helpful for ME and while i have a lot of sympathy for a lot... there are some things that i'm really unsure about (e.g., remembering trauma, focusing in traumatic experiences, blaming and railing at my alleged persecutors, the necessessity of splitting worse on the way to getting myself put together... etc etc etc...

i don't like the view that sex is what is at base. don't like it at all. i like kohut's stuff because it really resonates with me... aloneness... fragmentation... breaking up... losing oneself in the void of the world... loss of boundaries... for me that comes the closest to putting words to my terror. sex is weird... a weird kind of boundary thing... a weird kind of loving thing... a weird kind of hurting thing... weird... but i think the needs are deeper...

i talked to my therapist about my sexual relationship with my ex boyfriend (or more in particular problems in my sexual relationship with my ex boyfriend). that was okay... i could talk to him about that (perhaps surprisingly). but... i can't talk to him about some of the fantasys that i have about him... even if they signify something deeper - which i'm sure they do. i just... can't. brave mouse.

[Mouse_]

Well I did tell T about "The dream". I guess at times I think T automatically knows all my fantasys and feelings and realised today that T doesn't know everything about me unless I tell her...I felt she was trying her best to help me work out this dream as she knew what a big step this was for me to tell, but then again, perhaps Im putting thoughts into her mind?...the session didn't go the way I had expected it to go, infact I ended up crying with 3mins to go and normally I begin crying at beginning of the session...I think it was because T has already said, that I learnt to become passive in relation to my adoptive mother, that was the only way she would except me...and the dream of T doing all the things to me and me being "passive" in the dream...oh I talked about my thoughts on whether I am a lesbian? and how I imagine a woman falling in love with and loving me absolutely and me using my body as the only means I could think of to keep her with me...but in reality I said, all I really want is to hold a womans hand and go for a walk...oh its so hard to say all what was said here....but I ended up because I talked so openly today, of waking up yearnings and the having to feel the pain of the emptyness and I told T why? see? why did I talk? now I hurt? I just want to go to sleep so I dont have to remember or feel...I said I feel like the child I was once that was desperate to be touched by the nurses in hospital and having to feign sleep and hold my arm out so they'd touch me and then when they did, I did it again...T said you couldnt hold it the feeling of being touched? I said NO!...then with tears my last words today, were why did I talk? T said, because you become aware of your feelings and ALSO make me aware and then one day you will be able to hold onto me holding your hand even when I;m not there...*sigh

[MissCharlotte]

Oh yes Mouse, we are the dreamers, aren't we?

But you are much braver than I because I bleeped out the good part.

[ECHOES]

Mouse, I thought an interesting aspect to your dream was that the sex was oral and therapy is oral too. And recently you posted about taking all of you to T, not holding back; the freezing/freezer made me think of holding back, thoughts freezing and unable to be spoken.

I get so hurt when I am feeling something about T and tell her and then she turns it around, back to me, repels it as if she is rejecting me, and makes it about my wants and needs and feelings.

The "holding on" to good feelings about T... I hear it and it sounds logical, but when I'm wanting and longing for physical holding / touch, I just can't imagine that being able to "hold on" to good feelings would feel as satisfying as the fantasy of being held/touched/comforted. I shake my head, yes that would be good to be able to hold on to the good feelings. But then when I can't do it, it sounds absurd and impossible and unsatisfying.

[Mouse_]

The more I think about the session yesterday, the more amazing I am finding it to have been...for the first time I really feel as if I shared/revealed myself and its the first time I "get" the meaning of what a therapist is for...I truely feel as if she trod the mucky ground with me yesterday, that she entered a place that for so long as been only me...through revealing myself to her, and she "seeing" it also I feel that I can see me through her eyes and not left seeing me through my own eyes and the loneliness that entails...and I say "seeing" and not "judging" because so many times in life I see myself through other peoples judgements and not through someones caring...I was thinking if I could get through therapy without having to reveal Everything then it would be ok...now I realise that its in revealing Everything where the love is to be found...its in sharing our anger/hatreds/prejudices/ignorances and fears is the place where we need the most loving and healing and sharing.....yes T is holding my hand in a true way..

[Perna]

I had a dream where I was sucking my own breast and T just sort of naturally pointed out I was trying to feed myself instead of take from another which hadn't occurred to me. It makes me think of your interpretation where you felt your T was doing all the pleasuring and you were not giving back.

That's wonderful you were able to tell her and discuss it. I found that once I could work with my T in that way and tell her "everything" that things worked out better/faster.

[chaotic13]

Mouse... WOW...you go girl!.. I'm right behind you on this tell Everything concept... well, OK maybe a year or two and a lot more Propranolol behind ya....

Seriously, I thought your most recent post was very insightful, sounds like you are really opening up and seeing where it will take you. You must have a good therapist to help you feel safe enough to do what you are doing.