Need Some Advice

Hi Everyone,

This is my first time posting here

I miss my psychologist as well.

So I need some advice
I've been thinking about AIDS recently and right now I've been thinking what if it's all wrong, like everything about the ways you can get it, and what if touching things will pass it on to other people.

Like what if everything about it is all wrong, sure the main ways you can get it are right, but what about all the other ways, it could all be wrong.

I see an awesome psychologist, and she does listen - but thinks I am wrong, I try to tell her to be careful, so she won't catch AIDS, but she won't do what I ask.
I know you can get AIDS from door handles and touching things, but no one listens because they just think its OCD when really I have a special insight and I know things that other people don't.

How can I make them see it properly?

I don't want her to get AIDS, that's the worst thing that could happen, then I'm worried I might have gave it to her (I don't actually have it though)

Hi there. It sounds like this AIDS thing is a real concern of yours.

I am 100% certain that if AIDS could be transmitted by casual touch and doorknobs and things pretty much everyone on earth would have it by now. I am 100% certain that if it could be transmitted in such ways scientists and researchers would be well aware of it.

I know your fears are coming from that OCD place and nothing I or anyone else says will calm them tho!

Welcome to the forums.

First of all, welcome. I can imagine it's hard living with a fear like yours especially when others don't believe it, but isn't there scientific evidence that you can't get AIDS by touching a door etc? You said that you miss your psychologist, so does that mean you're not seeing them anymore? It's very difficult when that support stops, so I'm glad that you found this site and I hope you're able to talk through this concern and any others you might have more here.

There is a great deal of scientific research that has been done on the nature of the HIV virus. The sorts of things that it can penetrate through, the sorts of mediums it can survive in (personal fluids or doorhandles etc), the amount of HIV virus that one needs to be exposed to in particular ways in order for someone to be at risk of contracting the virus etc. It would really be quite surprising if that research was completely wrong in the way you suggest. It would probably be about as likely that we are as severely misguided about cancer or diabetes or parkinsons etc etc etc... Which is basically to say... It really isn't very likely at all. I suppose that quantum indeterminacies might possibly 'percolate up' to the macroscopic level such that one could in fact contract HIV from a doorhandle. It would be similarly likely that the quantum indeterminicies would result in a purple elephant materializing in front of one, however. It is probably significantly more likely that you will get hit by a bus or a falling plane or lightening or be the victim of earthquake etc etc etc.

We know condoms (when used properly) are effective for preventing HIV infection in the face of sexual interactions because there are some couples where only one partner has the virus and when they use condoms properly the other partner does not contract the virus. These couples do all kinds of other couple things normally. They exchange saliva through kissing. They sleep in the same bed. They eat from the same bowls. They touch the same doorhandles etc. The other partner only contracts the virus when they have sexual interaction without using condoms properly. Research shows this to be so.

> I know you can get AIDS from door handles and touching things, but no one listens because they just think its OCD when really I have a special insight and I know things that other people don't.

Well... In the face of all the scientific research that we have about how the virus is and is not contracted... How is it that you 'know' you can get HIV from door handles etc? Do you know of a single case where this has happened and the person couldn't have contracted it from alternatives (such as using a dirty needle / having unprotected sexual relations)? What is the nature of your special insight? A feeling? What if I strongly felt that if I stepped on a crack that I would contract diabetes? What would you say to me?

Hi KUREHA

welcome to pc...
I want you to know . Years ago I had a cousin who had AIDS. He came to every family picnic. Ate as we did. Hugged us all. Everyone stayed healthy. No one got AIDs from him.
ALso a very good friend I have, He has had AIDs for years now. He is on meds which he is so blessed have worked to keep him here. I grew up with him. I know his family real well. Everyone is healthy in his family and us as his friends.((that includes me))
With AIds comes fear of the unknown. Its ok to ask questions. Also ok to worry about other ppl. Please know imo you can not give anyone AIds by touching the stuff they do or food. Its a sexual disease.

Keep talking to your T about it. You are very brave to bring up questions.
muffy

Thanks for the replies

Storme - I still see my psychologist, just it's been a while, I seen her the 11th December and my next appointment is the 8th January. I just miss her and the way she says things, it helps.

I've read loads about AIDS, but everytime I just think what if it's wrong, it's like everything else I would know for sure, but I just can't see it when it's AIDS. I just have all these ways it can happen and it's just that no one realises it.

I always tell my psychologist to be careful and I try to help, because I'd feel really guilty if something happened and I didn't say anything. Now I think it has happened and it's my fault.

Kim - Ok well I don't know anytime it has happened like that, but it is going up all the time and it can't just be the 3 ways that everyone knows, it just couldn't be.
My special insight - yeah it's a feeling, although I did get a message from the TV, it was from the local news, so I felt it was more for me. It's kind of like having a special power.

Yeah I see your point - that could never happen, because you couldn't get diabetes that way, but with AIDS - it's not 100% certain that it can't happen the ways I think.

Muffy - Sorry to hear that - I want to believe you're right, I want to believe everyone here, but I just can't seem to, it's like Luce said no one can calm it.

It's like everything I read or hear - I doubt it

Seems to me your allowing yourself the "luxury" off ruminating about a catastrophe that can never happen, that way you avoid dealing with the real issues you are experiencing at the moment? Perhaps.

I'm not sure about that - I know it could happen
Although there was something I was trying not to think about, so maybe you're half right.
I'll just be happy next week when I can phone the receptionist and check my psychologist is fine.

Hi Kureha. It sounds like this fear is very real to you, and no matter what the evidence is, it doesn't matter-- because it is a real fear to you. I bet it can be obnoxious when people tell you it's OCD, but you are thinking that you have a certain insight into what is going on .

Do you think your anxieties will be calmed when your psychologist tells you she is okay?

I have a very good friend who has been HIV+ for 20+ years. I greet him with a hug and a kiss. We have shared a drink from the same glass; I have eaten from his fork. However, what I say probably doesn't make a difference because I understand what it is like when you have fears of your own that are real to you. Just because others don't necessarily share the same fear, or have the same beliefs doesn't mean you aren't going through it.

I hope that some of this can be eased when you get to talk to your psychologist.

it sounds like you really care about your therapist and are genuinely concerned about whether she his okay. your fear that you will 'contaminate' her sounds very real, even if concretizing that with respect to AIDS is maybe problematic...

> I just have all these ways it can happen and it's just that no one realises it.

when you feel like that... are you able to try and think a bit about what you might try and say to another person if they thought that you could get diabetes from stepping on cracks or parkinsons from not washing your hands 100 times a day, or contract OCD by talking to a person with OCD? even if they said that they 'just knew' because they had this special feeling or that they saw or heard it on tv it would be more likely that the message they had received was in error than that it gave them special insight that all the microbiological and epidemiological data had simply missed...

your feelings and fears (in the first paragraph) seem very real... nothing in science is known 100% but i'd say that contracting HIV from a doorhandle would be about as likely as those other scenarios that I mentioned in the second paragraph. So... really not very likely at all. seems to go against everything we know with respect to transmission. with respect to the increase in prevalence maybe you are underestimating the prevalence of prostitution, needle junkies, and the number of infected women who go on to infect their kids either in the womb or via breastfeeding.

> I always tell my psychologist to be careful and I try to help, because I'd feel really guilty if something happened and I didn't say anything. Now I think it has happened and it's my fault.

that must be a really hard fear to live with...

KUREHA

Can you think of when this anxiety about AIDS first started for you?

Do you know someone who has AIDS that you were around and perhaps thats why you feel you may have it, even though you don't?

I am a nursing student and work with patient's alot, including patient's with AIDS, I have bathed them, gave them meds through IV's, ect, yet, I have not contracted AIDS. And I do touch them with ungloved hands at times as well.
I understand your fear and feeling like people just don't know the truth about AIDS. But perhaps pondering on where this anxiety/fear first came about may help you understand it a little more.

Your need to protect your psychologist speaks volumes. Have you lost someone very close to you?

Hangingon

Thanks for understanding.
I usually get things like it's just common sense - it's like they think I'm stupid. Or they just see those 3 letters OCD and I think they stop listening.

So thanks for not doing that.

Well I'll know on Tuesday and I'll be able to ask her on Thursday when I see her, so hopefully she'll be fine, I'll still tell her to be careful though, because you don't know what could happen outside - well I do, but you can't be in control outside.
Pink Soil - thanks for that, it makes a change from what I usually hear

Yeah Kim - I do care a lot - she said it's like a responsibility thing
I see what you're trying to say, I would tell them it couldn't happen, because of what all the research says, but everytime it's something with AIDS - it's not like that.
My psychologist spent 40 minutes talking about AIDS and checking websites, and I thought it might be different since she was there, but it didn't make any difference to what I was thinking, so I'm not really sure what to do and I don't want to waste her time either.
Well the message from the TV, it was the local news - not for the whole of the UK, I don't watch it much, and they said it 7 times - it was like a message to me, telling me I was right, that's why I try and protect the people I care about.

I read that in the UK, every 70 minutes someone is diagnosed with HIV, that's a lot, and it just seems to many to just be from the ways everyone knows

Hanging on - I've been worrying about AIDS and germs since November 2005 - I was 21
I don't know why, I just seemed to realise more things, I don't know anyone with AIDS either
Wow sometimes with no gloves, I had to wear gloves just to touch the keyboard when I was at college, but aren't nurses supposed to wear gloves all the time.
No I just know things that's why I try and protect my psychologist

Yeh Kureah, no gloves sometimes. It is actually thought to be more beneficial to the patient if we don't wear gloves (in terms of touch being a healing essence in itself), but we must wash our hands before and after touching each patient. There are also certain times when it is a must that we wear gloves and occasionally gowns (ie, dealing with bodily fluids, giving shots, patient's with MRSA, things like that).

Can I ask you this, what is your biggest fear in contracting AIDS?
Is it really not AIDS you fear but actually any germ that will expose you to the risk of death itself?

I ask because as a teenager, I become a hypochondriac, always felt like something was wrong with me reguarding sickness, to the point I could not leave my home. For me, I thought it was the fear of death itself, I thought I was going to die ect. But the reality was that there was a deeper fear under the surface of all of that.

I over came it but slowly forcing myself to do the very things I feared until I gained confidence in those areas. (ie..realizing I was not going to die, get sick, ect......even though the fear was so REAL to me...... and I could not explain to anyone how I really felt).

Ironic, now I work at the hospital around sickness all the time and I am perfectly fine

Hangingon

Hi Hanging on - Ok well I'm scared of all germs, but AIDS the most.
I'm not worried about any other disease, obviously I don't want any, but I'm not thinking about them.

I'm not worried about dying from AIDS, I'd kill myself if it ever happened, but I am worried about giving it to someone else and I'd never feel clean again.
All the other germs - it's more like I just don't feel clean, then I feel uncomfortable and anxious until I can get clean again.

I hate going outside, because I have no control or I worry I'll get stabbed with a needle and there are so many germs and other people. Although I do feel totally safe when I'm with my psychologist, I don't sit down when I see her, but I feel ok there.

I've been trying since 31/10/06, but I just can't seem to move forward, I don't want to stop washing my hands so much, because I need to do that, I just don't want all the anxiety.

Ah right I get it, but you still wear gloves a lot, it's pretty cool that you can work in a hospital now. I tried to volunteer at a hospital - I thought if I tried something pretty hard for me, I'd be fine, my old psychologist said it was like flooding therapy - but it could work. It just went so wrong, I was really scared and I felt all contaminated, and the woman that was interviewing held her hand out, and I had to tell her I don't shake hands - she totally changed and I didn't get the job.

Kureha
First off the way your old psychologist chose to expose you was probably not the best way to go about it. You have to start off with baby steps and work your way through it. Did that experience make it harder for you to want to try again?

So your concern with germs is that you don't want to be infected or infect others? I can understand that.

I imagine is really stressful to live with that anxiety all the time. I know when I went through my issue it was horrible. To the point that I got so sick of it that I started talking baby steps on my own. I would leave my house with my siblings (to go to the public pool), only to get halfway down the street to have to turn around and go back home.

I kept telling myself that I was so sick of the anxiety ruling my life, each time I was able to get a little further down the road untill I finally made it, I was nervous for awhile, but I realized I could make it and most importantly that nothing was going to happen to me. I started to do this in many areas until I gained confidence in knowing that the very things I feared were not going to happen.
I think gradual exposure is best, its work, but it can be done. You need to do it with someone safe, someone who understands you. Most importantly....deep down you need to WANT to do it for you.

I wouldn't give up on trying, I would just recommend taking a different approach. Some germs are actually very good and healthy for you

About nursing, actually, most of the time I don't wear gloves, for instance as soon as I give a shot I take and throw the needle away and the gloves, wash my hands, then continue to do what I have to do with the patient without gloves.

Hangingon

I chose that way, I thought it would be faster, but I was totally wrong, my psychologist said it was probably for the best that I didn't get the job.
I didn't try anything else - I think he thought I wasn't ready.

Yeah I just don't feel clean, and I always get as weird feeling on my hands, it's like I can feel the germs, and yeah I don't want to give anything to anyone else, like my psychologist.

I'm starting things with my psychologist, I don't think I have long left with her though, so I'll probably leave the harder things, I do trust her, but sometimes I think she doesn't know what I do though.

Yeah it's hard, I failed the second year of my course and my boyfriend left me, but I don't know how to stop the anxiety since I know what can happen. Then if I try something once and I'm ok and nothing happens, that doesn't mean it's going to be the same next time, I could just be lucky the first time.

"Some germs are actually very good and healthy for you" my psychologist said the same thing.

I do think it's really great how you can do that now, I was thinking about nursing - well a CPN, but I need to work on some things first.

Take Care

Wow, that's crappy to walk around with that feeling all the time.
It sounds like more than OCD going on here from what you describe though.
I don't know if you said you had OCD, or if it was someone else who suggested it, so I'm sorry if I got it wrong.

What did your psychologist tell you your diagnosis were? You don't have to share if you don't feel comfortable. I think you should make it a point to tell your psychologist you would like to see her more frequently than once a month. Most people go every week, and especially since your symptoms are spiraling out of control and anxiety is taking over, you really should be seen more frequently.

Can you give your psychologist a call and set up an earlier appointment?

Hi Simcha,

Everyone I've seen said it's OCD, so I half believe them.

The psychologist I see now said OCD as well, it's like I can't get away from it lol, she is getting me an appointment with the psychiatrist though to check she isn't missing anything and to try and covince me to take medication I don't want.

I do usually see her every week, it was just with it being christmas, she's off for 2 weeks, she didn't see me the week before christmas though, so maybe she's getting sick of me. She's back the 6th - so that's when I'm going to phone the receptionist to check she's ok

Hi Kureha. Have you been on medication before, or are you on medication now? If so, what is it? (If you don't mind sharing).

Have you told your psychologist about the special messages from the TV? This is very important to tell her.

You said you "half" believe it is OCD because that's what everyone says. What does the other half of you believe it is?

I would hate to you see you getting treated for OCD when it doesn't sound like that is what's going on. An important feature for OCD is that the person knows that what they are obsessing over is irrational, but they continue to obsesses.

It seems like you have these fears and beliefs about AIDS, and you are going to continue with them no matter what anyone else says. That is understandable, as it is what is real to you.

I would encourage you to make sure you tell your psychologist, and future-psychiatrist about these messages and insights-- I believe they would be a very important part of the course of your treatment.

Hi Pinksoil - No I've never been on medication before - I don't think I need to be.

Yeah I told her about the messages she wrote it all down, it's really easy to talk to her about things.

Well the other half would be that I'm right and I have a special insight that other people don't, and that's why they don't realise I'm actually right.
Yeah I know some things are irrational, so I guess that's the OCD, but not all of it is and trying to convince people of that is really hard.

I know I've read about AIDS so much, I've emailed AIDS charities, I've asked my doctor and my psychologist, but it doesn't change anything, it just seems like everyone is wrong.

I try and tell my psychologist everything, the only thing I have a problem with is telling her how I feel, but she always finds out.
I'll try and do the same when I see the psychiatrist.

Take Care