Friend making inappropriate advances to my wife

Patty - what you're saying about LK is fine in your world. But I think LK runs in a different, or rather, more "free" crowd. There are all sorts of folks out there and some do act a bit more crass than others. Yet, they still want to maintain proper boundaries with humanity. Some things LK does (sex in br w/ wife) may be ok in their crowd but not in yours (nor mine). Sometimes, we think others need to raise their standards - but yet, we may just want to try to understand and let-be.

My wife is very straight laced. Never really acts-out & tries to maintain this high-level of "properness". Based on how she was raised. When I'm with my friends out doing something, things are far different than when I'm at home because of her standards. People are just ... different.

For LK's issue here - friends and family who are more "open" with their personalities may not be worth inspection here. He still wants to maintain a great marriage and wants to define that boundary with his friend (?) who has begun to cross that boundary. Whether he herds hippos, milks water buffalos or juggles cats besides that may not really apply to the original post. Sometimes, people feel loose around friends and the bathroom thing he mentioned happens (though, not in my house - I understand). This thread has been quite interesting so far. I hope his issue has been addressed - lots of good feedback so far.

Wow are we a judgmental with our nose up in the air. Hope you don't offend EVERYONE living in a trailer park. You'd never admit it...well you'd never be there because it's quite obvious you have no sense of humor OR you are a really old person that is stuck in the wrong century of living...
Refuse Christmas gift....yep thats the 'proper hostess' go check your Emily Post Manual again.

It's amazing....there is always, at every site, that one person that thrives on arguing & can not admit they aren't GOD....why oh why do I attract these people. Know it all's that have the perfect sense of what to do in ANY situation and never make a social misque.

This has the potential to trigger alot of people on here I suggest this thread is closed.

Hi Bonaire,

I TOTALLY agree with you and everything your post. If this were real life, believe me... I wouldn't associate with such folks... and I know my friends wouldn't either. We just don't run around in that sort of crowd nor do we live in that kind of neighborhood.

It all sounds like a pretty sad situation/life to me, but one I find very interesting and amusing... in really dark humor sort of way, nonetheless.

I will say no more... I think I have said enough... hahaha.

Peppermint Patty

Please lets make this what it should be a support board

Hi, guys, I just started reading this entire exchange, and I've read it with great interest. First of all, I have something to say that's a little off the subject. Another husband and wife or couple who are both, separately, on the site? Cool!

Now, as to my reaction to all the posts. I think that as far as things I agree with, I feel Eskie summed things up the closest to what I feel, although not exactly.

Am I the only one to not see the guy as a complete jerk? I think he has a lot of problems and that he acts very inappropriately, but I do not think he fully realizes the discomfort he has been causing. I believe that if he realized he was causing this level of discomfort he might feel defensive of his actions and argue about whether or not he acted badly or offensively, but I think he would certainly stop if he actually came to believe he had created such a problem.

Whether or not you can get him to believe this is a different story. You probably can't.

I agree with others that the two of you need to talk with him together. But I feel B.C. should do most of the talking, with L.K. just agreeing and being there for support.

So, B.C., Most communication guides suggest describing specific behaviors that you don't want, using "I" language, such as, "When you say (insert one of his offensive phrases) it causes me to feel embarassed and uncomfortable. I don't know how to react, and I don't enjoy it. I would like you to stop doing it", or "When you give me a slap on the butt I feel embarassed and I don't like it. I feel downgraded, and insulted. I don't want you to do that or anything like it again". Don't get drawn into arguments about specific situations, if he says he didn't do what you say he did or if he says you behaved differently than you remember, or if he blames you or makes excuses. Just say that whatever happened, the end result was that you were not comfortable.

He may react by trying to joke it all away. He may get defensive. He may try explaining or accusing or blaming. He may get insulting. He may get pitiful.

It doesn't matter. You can control your own behavior, but you can't control his. So keep calm, and just try answering whatever he throws at you calmly, repeating that it doesn't matter why he does these things, you just would like him to stop. You can say things like, " OK, I get that you feel that way, but still I want you to quit behaving like that with me.", or, "I apologize if you were confused by the signals you thought I was sending, but I want to make it clear that I do not want you to do that any more", or that kind of thing.

L.K., try to stay calm and quiet while this is going on.

This guy may have lots of insecurities, and his wife's illness, or even some dissatisfaction he had with his marriage for a while before she even got ill, may have caused his insecurities to come out in this type of behavior.

I wonder if there are other women he also behaves this way with? It might be appropriate to gently inform him that most women do not feel comfortable with this type of approach.

I have had similar experiences with some men, and would like to share one of them with you, because I went through some of the same emotions, I think, although the situation was different. One of them was with a former neighbor, husband of a friend, and father of one of my daughter's friends. He was awful. I always felt so uncomfortable around him. I mean, at first I took his crude jokes, comments, and suggestions as if they were meant as jokes, and kind of laughed them off. I may have even replied in kind, a little, at first. But as it continued and escalated, I didn't know what to say or how to react, and I didn't know whether to regard it as a joke or not. It was hard to tell whether or not his crude suggestions were meant as jokes or whether he was serious. His wife was extremely overweight and at the time I was slender and athletic. At times he might even have seen my clothing as provocative, since I wore mini skirts and so forth. But I was not dressing that way as an invitation to him or anyone else (except my husband, perhaps). I ran five miles a day at the time, and was proud of the body I got from that, because the running was certainly a lot of work, and I felt I wanted to show it off. Probably a mistake, but none the less, it was my right to do that. But I did of course wonder whether he saw my way of dressing as some sort of invitation. I felt guilty and actually began dressing differently just because of that. Whether or not he did see my behavior or clothing as invitations, no other men behaved that way towards me, or at least no men who knew I was married. So he was unique.

One main difference is that he and my husband were not friends, and were barely acquainted, so I didn't have that complication the way you do.

I also did not know whether to talk to my friend, his wife, about it or not.

That situation resolved itself, since we moved away and our children stopped socializing. But I do know that I was terrified to confront him. I just did not know what to do or how to do it, and I did not feel I could do it alone.

This is why it is good you both know him well. You can be there for each other, for moral support.

I truly mean that I do not think this guy realizes the discomfort he is causing, or at least not fully. He may be an oblivious, boorish brute, and he may be rather clueless and stupid about these types of things.

By approaching him together in an open, non-angry way and being open and honest as best you can, you may help him learn something new, and you may be doing a lot of good for other women. If he is as insensitive as he seems, he is likely to repeat his offensive behavior with other women as well.

I understand how the two of you must feel. This sounds like a very uncomfortable situation for you. But I do admire the openess and support you are showing for each other, and for the wife and kids.

After you talk to him, you may feel you have failed to get the message across. It all depends on his reaction. But you may have gotten the message across much more than you realize. Give it a little time, and see if his behavior changes.

So I guess I agree with options 4 and 5, much like everyone else. What I do not resonate with is the anger many of the posters have expressed towards this guy. I think people have jumped to conclusions that he is nothing but a complete and total jerk. I think his behavior in this instance is unacceptable, but I doubt he is a total jerk. If he is, then how did it become a situation where you are such close, good friends. I mean, it is really hard to become close to somebody who is nothing but a jerk from start to finish, because they have nothing of value to offer. He must have some redeeming qualities for you, or he must have had them at some time.

So try establishing boundaries in the gentle way I suggested. This establishes the "rules" in a simple way that he has no reason to misunderstand.

After that, if he STILL continues to persist in the behavior, it would be appropriate to begin to react more strongly, to show anger, and so forth.

So that's my advice, to add to all the other advice you have gotten. I hope it helps.

Good luck, and I'll be thinking of you! LizzyB

Thanks Lizzie....We both appreciate sincere responses on how to progress. I can't change the past but I can change the future and we will, some how. I am a coward at heart...I don't do well with confrontation....but If I must.....

Tishie,
I think it's already triggered some not so nice things...closing it is a good idea. I don't plan on reading any more of it simply because, although some support was given, it was outweighed by the sour attitudes of others.

Jmo, of course
Catherine

I think you stated it exactly like it was.....definitely not your best reaction....you realized that.....you even stated here that it was purely instinctual.....& even though you said it wasn't jealousy (which I believe because of the known close relationship you & your wife have after having a rough time & working on it)....when we are insulted like you admittedly said you were, it is very easy to get caught into a reaction that really isn't your best choice (which you also admitted). Sometimes we get caught up in a knee jerk reaction when emotions like being insulted, anger, any of the stronger emotions if we aren't careful will come out in reactions that we later look back as at being "not the best choice".

I must admit however....you said that not only they but their kids (along with your kids) were at the house.....not sure that reaction is one I would want my kids to pick up on.....my point being.....when we are in the middle of strong emotions, we don't think through the situation as well as we really should or even as maturely as we really should.....as parents, we know we need to set good examples of out reactions.....but there are times when we loose it.

I think as you said the fact that he did it right in front of you (after other things previously had happened) was enough to blank the mind of the rational thought we really need to have.....but there are just some things where we loose it & if those are the instincts we have going on .....then we are twice as likely to not choose the best reaction.

We always end up having to have hind site on situations like this...especially when they end up escalating like we hoped whey wouldn't....it's just part of the learning process of life & when we do, we can see the whole picture....not just the instincts that had taken over that caused the knee jerk reaction. I'm kinda guessing that the whole scene wouldn't have been so funny if any of the kids had shown up during that scenario.

When we put the whole picture together & see it through logical, rational eyes released from the insult of the moment.....that is when we can check ourselves & really determine that ....NO, that wasn't the best reaction.....probably more like close to the worst given all the other possibilities that could have happened that luckily didn't. We live & we learn.....so that if there is a next time (which hopefully we learn how to stop before ever escalating to this point)...a better choice can be made because we have already experienced a similar situation & know what didn't work. The laughter is not alway a sign that something is funny, sometimes, it is a release of of adrenalin in a stressful situation......& think in this case...it might be the latter. In any case....after having gone through this situation, there are lots of things that have been learned & lot of things that wouldn't end up happening again.....with experience, comes wisdom.

Input from how others see a situation is always insiteful....I have found throughout my life, that providing that insite in ways that doesn't provide a feeling of attack is much better. The feeling of attack creates an instinct defensive reaction rather than the normal listening reaction the person normally has. This comment is based on many years of observation & personal experience.

Just a thought that might help in the opinion giving side of posting like this in the future. We all live & learn from our experiences....All of our experiences in relating with others.

Just a thought from
Eskie

As said before this is a support forum. I am closing this thread as I think it has run it's course here. thanks for the input.