[sdl1986]

I've been living at home for a little while. In fact, I asked a question related to this a month or so back. My situation has gotten a little worse, so hear me out...

My dad thinks he knows everything. No matter what I say to him or if the conversation doesn't even involve him, he becomes extremely combative. It's even worse if he's been drinking. Earlier tonight, my mom, dad and I were having a very normal conversation in the car. My dad didn't seem to understand the argument my mom was putting forth, so I interjected and attempted to explain it more clearly. Instead of listening to me, he screams--angrily, like I just said something sacrilegious--that I don't need to tell him what my mom is saying, that he understands it perfectly and that I have no idea what I'm talking about.

I've been getting fed up with his know-it-all ways, so I finally just let him have it. I told him to chill out first, which made him even angrier. Then I told him that I can't stand talking to him and that everything I say just becomes a nightmare of a situation.

This caused him to threaten to throw me out of the house and make my life a nightmare. My mom is usually pretty meek and likes to avoid confrontation, but she agrees with me that I did nothing to earn my dad's ire. I was just having a normal conversation, and he turned it into some sort of catastrophe.

My major problem is that this seems to be the case with anything I talk to him about. If it's not a conversation about what a successful guy he is or how much money he's making, he becomes an insufferable jerk. He has no room for other people's ideas or opinions. I don't know what it is other than extreme insecurity coming from an older gentleman, but I'm getting to the point where I have no desire to talk to him at all.

I want a relationship with my parents, especially if I'm living at home post graduation, but this situation is just beyond me. I can't deal with being yelled at for sharing ideas or just opening my mouth. It's not fair, and it makes my dad's weak attempts at relating to me and getting to know me even more frustrating. He doesn't get why I avoid him like the plague lately; he thinks I want to spend MORE time with him, when I simply choose to stay away because his bad attitude and insecurity make me repulsed.

I have enough money to move out, but am currently unemployed. My sister lives in a city a few hours away, and she herself suggests I should probably just move out of the house and head over there. I figure it's better than staying here and letting this misery overwhelm me.

What makes me sad is that I never realized what a jerk my dad was until recently. I just sort of accepted his argumentative nature as a quirk and didn't pay it much mind, but now I see that it's turned my parents' relationship into one superficial show and his relationship with me into complete resentment on my end.

I want to like my dad, but he's given me nothing to work with. All he does is try to shower us with money or gifts whenever he feels things are turning against him. That's his only method of forgiveness. I'm way past accepting material objects as a substitute for a real relationship. I try to put my words into ideas he can comprehend, but everything I say to him is perceived as an affront on his entire existence. There's just no way to break through to him. He's my dad, but he's a thick headed jerk, and if I dealt with someone like this outside of family, I'd tell them to get lost and never talk to me again.

I know getting out of the house is the answer. But I also would like to think there's a way to get him to understand why I (along with the rest of my family) find it such a struggle to get along with him. We're his family. We're the only family he'll ever have; he's the only father I'll ever have. I know I'll be sad when he's gone... that's why I'd like to fix this somehow. I'm afraid I can't, though. He's honestly the most insecure, angry, argumentative person I've encountered in my life. When I argue with him, I feel like I'm exposing him for the insecure coward he is, so I end up feeling bad that I even go there--but he's bringing it on himself.

My entire relationship with him is tension mixed with guilt. I hate it. I really do. Is he just beyond saving? Do I need to keep increasing the distance?

---

I know I should be grateful he's alive and supports me to an extent, but this is just ridiculous. I told my mom I wanted to leave the house, and she agrees it might be a good idea. My fear is that I'm just going to completely shut out my dad if I go. For some reason, that makes me feel kind of bad, even though I have a ton of resentment toward him. I'm starting to feel like he's a contributing factor to the majority of my defects as a person. I hate to say it, but how else do you turn out when you spend a lot of your time with an insecure, argumentative, angry person? He has absolutely no patience for anything that doesn't mesh with his world view, and he gets even worse when he's had a glass or two of wine.

On top of all of this, he's just kind of disgusting if he's not being a jerk. He criticizes everyone he sees on TV. He's incapable of saying anything nice. If it's not someone's fat *** or crooked nose, it's their voice or something else. The negativity is suffocating.

He's not all bad, but he's mostly bad. It's a weird situation because I can't exactly pin point what precisely is wrong with him. I just know there's something extremely wrong with his personality, and I need to get away from it. I'm kind of convinced he'll never change. He refuses to listen to any criticism. If you tell him he's yelling, he'll deny it while yelling at you. If you tell him to calm down, he'll get angry and say that you're arguing with him. If you tell him he thinks he knows it all, he acts wounded and claims that you're calling him names. It seems like it's impossible to get your point across to the man.

The worst part is he buys into all that Power of Now nonsense. I think that any book or philosophy that helps a person get by in life is worth following, but it becomes obnoxious when it becomes an excuse to lead a two dimensional lifestyle. To my dad, the answer to everything is to "live in the now," except that nearly everything everyone says sets him off and ruins the "inner peace" that he brags he's developed more than anyone else he knows. He's actually so arrogant that he's gone on about how he's more spiritually evolved than other people, and that everyone in this community bores him because he's more enlightened. Seriously...

I don't even know what to do anymore. When I complain to my mom, I feel like I'm going to ruin their marriage. Whatever works for them works. I can't do anything about that. She has the same problems with him, but somehow she deals with it. I guess she's just come to some sort of understanding. I have no tolerance for the level of disrespect he shows her, but getting involved just exacerbates the problem, with all the blame being placed on me. Anytime there's been a fight between my parents and I've been present, it almost always seems like my dad blames the problem on me instead of himself. He also never apologizes, just sheepishly begs for acceptance and love after doing something wrong. I'm past apologizing for arguments I didn't cause.

I need out! I'm 23, and I have the means. Is there any way to salvage this relationship or should I just tune him out for life? I honestly think there's no redemption for the man. He has a heart, but it's buried under layers upon layers of repulsive personality defects. Somehow, he's succeeded in life. But along with that comes boasting about his position in life, flat out lies about his achievements, nonsense about things he did over four or five decades ago, and very few close friends. I can't help feeling guilty, like I need to be there as one of my dad's good friends--he's not young--but I can't sacrifice my happiness or sanity anymore. I had an idea he was causing me lots of grief when I was younger, but being gone from home for a few years and coming back to this environment has just solidified it for me...

[jerrymichele]

I would leave. He might be a different person when there is some space between the two of you.

[Shangrala]

Omg!

Embarrassingly enough.......you've just described my (soon to be ex) hub in freaky similarities.

I'm so sorry that you have to go through this.
I would think your best bet is to get away from him before there is no possible chance of ever wanting to return again.

My best wishes to you.

Shangrala

[thunderbear]

I agree with jerrymichele and Shangrala. I would move out. I know how it feels to be around someone like that. It's like they suck all of the air out of the room. Just because you dont like his ways and attitude, does'nt mean your ungrateful or that you don't love him. I'm sure most people would agree with you wanting to get out of there. Good luck I hope things work out for you

[Pomegranate]

Move out. Then don't put up with any crap from him, make him responsible for his words and actions - not in a 'gotcha' way, but just fairly and simply tell what he did or said to make you feel the way you feel. Treat him like you would any other adult in your life. Because he is your father, you might also ask him to go to counseling with you.

[sdl1986]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

Move out. Then don't put up with any crap from him, make him responsible for his words and actions - not in a 'gotcha' way, but just fairly and simply tell what he did or said to make you feel the way you feel. Treat him like you would any other adult in your life. Because he is your father, you might also ask him to go to counseling with you.

He won't. He tried to "fix" things the other night, and all he did was hold me responsible for his bad moods and outbursts. He admitted he was arrogant and condescending, but said that he only gets that way is because I look "miserable" all the time and try to do things to provoke a reaction from him. My mind was blown.

I think he's got some sort of narcissist problem.

[Pomegranate]

((((sdl))))) I'm so sorry. Sounds like the situation with your dad is pretty hopeless unless he decides to change. And if he's always blaming you and everyone else around him, that's not going to happen.

[susan888]

(((sdl)))
Your Dad sounds like a very depressed and angry man. It is my understanding that when some men are feeling depressed and insecure then they become angry and lash out at those closest to them (I'm sure he doesn't act like an *** at work).

Probably moving out if you can is your best bet for your own peace of mind...I am very sorry for your Mom. It doesn't sound like he would be open to getting on medication, right??

[AAAAA]

I am really sorry that one of the people that was supposed to teach you what unconditional love is all about has really dropped the ball here. But one of the hardest life lessons to learn is that you must accept some people just the way they are, warts and all. If it turns out that they are too toxic to be in your life then so be it.

In my opinion if you want to “fix” this relationship with your father you must adjust your thinking a bit. First, do get your own place. It really is difficult to see your child as an adult when they’re still living at home. My house my rule’s is big here. Our children will always be welcome in our home, but whether they’re 18 or 81 there will be rules I expect them to follow. Just as I respect my daughter’s wishes in her home (we pay the rent, but it is her home) I expect her to respect mine in my home. It’s a matter of manners, respect, and courtesy.

Secondly, it’s not your responsibility to “save” him or change him or his relationship with others including your mother, she’s an adult and if she chooses to put up with an arrogant, condescending husband that’s really her business. You may find this behavior toward her annoying, hurtful and frustrating, but you cannot chose what’s right for your mother anymore than she could pick a mate out for you. So eliminate these things from the equations and focus on the problems the two of you are having.

By complaining to your mother rather than addressing him you’re re-enforcing the “I am still a child” role he seems to want to keep you in. Not to mention the fact that it does create a lot of extra stress on their marriage, you’re asking your mother to choose sides between her husband and her child, an easy choice here but perhaps not as easy for your mother. But then again, she really shouldn’t have to make it.

If you want a different result, you must try a different tactic. I have to say that if one of my kids told me to “chill out” or “calm down” that would instantly drive me up a wall. On a one to ten scale that would make me an instant 15 on the irritated scale, so perhaps this tactic is contributing to the problem. Maybe try “what is making you so angry” instead.

I personally handled a very similar situation very poorly. A week before I turned 30 my father asked me to fix a problem with his computer. I emailed a techie friend of mine for advice on his computer and my father absolutely flipped out because I was about to open an email from someone he didn’t know (he was worried about computer killing viruses that were going around at that time). I tried to calmly explain to him that I knew this person and if he wanted me to fix his computer, I had to open the email. This stupid little thing escalated into a screaming match. I finally had enough and announced that I was about to be 30 years old and no one on this planet has the right to talk to me that way. I was no longer a child and I would NOT be treated like one.

I was absolutely certain that he was going to hit me. I know it occurred to him, but common sense won the day and that outburst established a new relationship between the two of us.

[sweetypie]

hon

sometimes we keep trying to have the relationships we want and need with our parents.
and we keep getting, what we always got

it's because our parents are not always what they need to be.

likely your dad won't change. you're 23. and in my opinion, you need to move out.
i think the space will improve the situation and dynamics of your family situation. interestingly enough, i moved out for the first time at age 23. i was not getting along w/my mom and he was always trying to keep the peace but she was a real witch. and as soon as i moved out, we had peace
i would come by nightly for dinner and other times for a visit and things just eased when i had my own place
give it a try sweetheart
take some space from your dad re his actions and hurting you w/this attitude. but i say maybe it's too soon to give up on him entirely

you are your own person. life is short and uncertain - don't be afraid to go for the life that YOU want and need.
you DO deserve to be happy and at peace
xx

[meverhart913]

I agree with Sweetypie, life is too short for you to be in the house miserable, I'd look into moving in with your sister and since you don't have a job at this time it would be a good time to move out there and start looking. It's one less thing you have keeping you tied down to your current house.

[katie14]

I think you mentioned he is successful? Sometimes successful men (not to exclude women but my personal experience that I am drawing from only include men) do not relate well to people outside of their business. In business, they are expected to make decisons that exclude emotional feelings. In life, it's not that simple because life is emotional.
I have actually read the Power of Now. I have a Master in Psych and it was recommended to me by a friend that I went to college with that did some work on the ego and self and that is what the book is primarily about. The intial premise of the book is a good one. However, it's misleading in the sense that it suggests (or the author..Ekhart Tolle) that life itself isn't influenced by the past or the future just by the present or the now. I have a problem with that in the sense that I think many people are indeed influenced by many things including culture, community, experiences past, present and future etc I believe to live your life in such a rigid way is shortsighted in the sense that you will not allow outside influences to influence you. Any experience would not influence you or your future. To live your life based on the theory that there are no future experiences there is only right now...well..as I said I think it's shortsighted.
Regardless, I think your father is a little self absorbed and perhaps a little insecure. He is the master of his domain and now he had his own child, the one he raised challenging his authority, his voice. He is likely not sure what to do with such an intelligent young woman and so he does what has always worked he tries to bully you.
I wouldn't use your mom as an ally. By suggesting to her that he is not a very nice person, impossible to relate to, you may well be justified in your thoughts but your still talking about her husband. She has stayed with him because either his behaviour is ok with her or she doesn't want to start over and risk losing everything she has worked just as hard to achieve.
I am not sure the kind of relationship you want with im is achievable. He doesn't see himeself as a flawed individual..it's everyone else with the probems..right? That means that compromise isn't going to happen..it's his way or the highway.
So, what do you do? You protect yourself. You place boundaries around yourself. When he is behaving like a bully remove yourself. When he is yelling, say "when you have calmed down and would like to have a calm conversation, find me until then I am not giving this or you my attention" at first he will be resistant and may even up the ante by trying to instigate fights or may try to deliberately pick on you. Stick calm, stay strong and repeat what you want, a calm, adult conversation.
I think you should move. When your on your own then you have more room to negotiate what kind of relationship you want. It makes it difficult if he feels he has any stake in what you are doing especially if it's a financial one.
If he cannot change his behaviour, then you may have to limit your time with him. You can explain that his behaviour is abusive and that simply because your his daughter doesn't mean he can use you as a target or an emotional punching bag.
Good Luck and please keep me updated