[dragonfly2]

I really need to get this off my chest....

A distant friend of mine told me that her husband of only 4 months "left". To say I was shocked is an understatement. She seemed so blissfully in love and happy. This was her second marriage. She has four kids under the age of 12 from her previous marriage, and they blended well together. After getting more details, I am left angry and frustrated. Apparently, he is an alcoholic and had a relapse. She is Mormon and drew a very deep line in the sand regarding the alcohol.

My anger and frustration comes from this: she KNEW about his illness and chose to marry him anyway. Did she think that he would NEVER relapse?? I don't know how long he was sober for, but it sounds like he was not seeing a psychiatrist or in any kind of treatment. He has agreed to seek treatment, but apparently they are still divorcing and she is moving to another part of the state.

When did the "in sickness and in health" portion of the marriage vows become a pick-and-choose option??! Now, I understand the toll that substance abuse can take on relationships, and there does come a point where the line has to be drawn and these measures must be taken. But this was his first relapse since they married! And he's willing to seek help! Things may not change overnight, but to rush right into divorce?? This infuriates me. To not even try to help someone you have committed to work through an illness is simply deplorable, IMO.

Another situation that is bringing up these same feelings is the one between my sister and her ex. This is much older baggage, but it is still bothering me. It hits too close to home. My ex-brother-in-law has Bipolar I. About 8 years into their marriage he had a full-blown manic episode. They did not know he was bipolar, and his aggressive and irrational behavior was very frightening. He threatened her life and ultimately ended up waving a gun on the steps of City Hall and was taken to the State Hospital. She left and never looked back, despite his eventual stabilization on Lithium. Not only did she leave him, she made his life hell with all sorts of excessive restraining orders and hoops for him to jump through for visitation with their son - AFTER he was stable. I am also bipolar. While I sympathize with my sister and her fears, I am also angry with her for not giving her ex a chance once they finally diagnosed him and treated him.

My own marriage has not been psychiatrically seamless, and at one point I was not allowed to live at home, but my husband has never played the divorce card. We celebrated 19 years of marriage yesterday.

I guess in addition to needing to vent, I do have some questions for people: how have your relationships withstood the tests of mental illness? If you went into marriage knowing about your illness, what were your expectations of support during sickness? If your illness reared its ugly head after the vows (as mine and my sister's ex's did), how supportive was your spouse? And is your relationship still alive today despite it?

I know this may be a painful topic for some people, and I appreciate any answers people may feel comfortable sharing.

those are some sad stories.

My husband will tell you he is less than tolerant.
We are married a little over a year after dating a little over a year. We had an extremely whirlwind courtship.
I did tell him that I was bipolar early on, but he didn't really see any of it until this winter when a combination of birth control pills (hormones wreak havoc on my mental health) and a very stressful job put me into a very bad depression with panic attacks.
My husband was there for me. It was tough at first because he didn't know what to do for me. He'd never dealth with anything like this in his life and he is definitely a "cut and run' kind of guy. All he wanted was to see the happy smiling woman he met and married. He supported me in every step i took in getting better. The man won't take an asprin but supports me in taking my medication and accepts I'll be on it forever. He accepts that I don't drink because of the meds and that I have taken a less lucrative but less stressful job in order to be mentally healthy.

There were definitely times when it was rough...when I wondered if we'd make it to our first anniversary, but when it comes down to it, he is there for me when i need him most.

I'm sorry for your friend and your sister that they couldn't take the time to work through their marriages. Marriage isn't easy and it is a committment not to be taken lightly. this is my second and i want it to be my last.

[Leed]

I've been depressed since I was a child ~ my husband knew it. I had nasty episodes where nothing helped -- and I didn't go on antidepressants until I was in my late 20's - we married when I was 18 and he was 21. Did I ever get any support from him? Heck no. He just told me to deal with it. Did I ever get a hug? NO. Did he ever help me with the kids when things were at their worst for me? Of course not. Even tho I worked full time too, he was "too tired." When I had spinal surgery, and could barely walk - did he help around the house? Heaven forbid. When I had a hysterectomy, did he even VISIT me? Nope.

I divorced this creep because he was mentally abusive - he called me every name in the book. He made me feel lower than a snails belly. I STAYED for 26 years!! Was that long enough?? I sure hope so cause I couldn't have stood it another year.

I know mine is different from SOME of the others - but sometimes those vows need to be thrown out the window! Hugs, Lee

[PaintTheRoses88]

You're right I don't think the "in sickness and in health" portion of the vows should be pick and choose. However, speaking as someone who is in a relationship (if you could call it that at this point ) with a person with mental illnesses, I know how stressful and difficult it can be. It sounds like your sister was either in denial about the alcoholism or maybe had the misguided idea that everything would be better once she was there giving him her love and support. Illnesses don't give two cents about that, though. They will do what they will regardless of people's feelings on the matter.

My boyfriend is in the grips of OCD and depression, neither of which he is seeking treatment for. He's deluded himself into thinking everyone else has the problem (i.e. me, his family, the world, etc.) and there's nothing wrong with him. So, there's not really much I can do at this point and it may be that I will have to leave. But if your sister's husband is willing to seek out help to get his problems under control, then I agree that it is very unreasonable of her to not even give him a chance. I would be jumping for joy if my boyfriend wanted to see a psychiatrist and I would gladly do everything in my power to get him there.

Perhaps it just dug up all those bad memories of her ex. My mother suffers from bipolar disorder, but nothing so severe as what he had. But she has spent more than a few occasions in the psychiatric ward of the hospital. It was enough, though, that when my parents divorced my father was awarded physical custody of myself and my 3 younger siblings.

Being threatened by someone you love is hard, perhaps impossible, to overcome. It's difficult to separate your emotions from the cold facts. The fact is, it wasn't truly him threatening her, it was the mania. But, emotionally, she'll only see it as the man she loved and trusted being violent towards her. I can understand where she's coming from with that. And she had her son to think about. She probably can only think about that really bad manic episode. Just because he is on meds does not rule out the possibility that it may happen again. She may have thought she was doing what was best for herself and her children.

It is unfortunate that she continues to make life difficult for him because I can guess that life is difficult enough having to live with this mental illness. But she's probably just scared and reading what I read, well, I can't particularly say I blame her. There's no easy answer to that. Have you tried speaking to her about maybe easing up on her ex, especially when it comes to visitation rights with their son?

IMO, if you profess to loving someone unconditionally, you need to put your money where your mouth is, but within reason. In your sister's case with her current husband, I think she's being unreasonable with going right to divorce. She maybe could benefit from seeing a therapist herself to help her work through the issues of her previous relationship. I really think her current husband's problems might just be reawakening old fears.

In my personal case, my boyfriend has thus far refused to seek out help. There's no way we can carry on a relationship so long as he lets the depression and OCD consume him. It's just not feasible. It doesn't mean that I don't love him. I love him very much and it breaks my heart, but if it continues like this for much longer I will have to break it off. You need more than love to keep a relationship going.

[dragonfly2]

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I am glad to hear of success stories as well as from those who had to draw that line in the sand when things got abusive. No excuse for abuse, by any means. And if someone is not willing to seek help, then there is little that one can do for them. At that point, you need to set boundaries to keep yourself mentally well.

PaintTheRoses88, I'm not sure I was clear - I have two different people in my life with this issue. My sister's bipolar ex, and a friend's new alcoholic husband. My sister's son is in college now, so visitation is no longer an issue. Her ex has long since remarried and moved on, but I guess the situation is still nagging at me. My friend's first husband was abusive, and this may shed some light on her seemingly knee-jerk reaction. I definitely admit that I do not know all the particulars of their situation, and the new husband may be acting irrationally, though I do not think he is being abusive. Some distance may be needed right now, but I am still upset by the rush to call it quits without even trying.

I would love to hear more experiences and opinions on this. to everyone.

[PaintTheRoses88]

Originally Posted by dragonfly2

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. I am glad to hear of success stories as well as from those who had to draw that line in the sand when things got abusive. No excuse for abuse, by any means. And if someone is not willing to seek help, then there is little that one can do for them. At that point, you need to set boundaries to keep yourself mentally well.

PaintTheRoses88, I'm not sure I was clear - I have two different people in my life with this issue. My sister's bipolar ex, and a friend's new alcoholic husband. My sister's son is in college now, so visitation is no longer an issue. Her ex has long since remarried and moved on, but I guess the situation is still nagging at me. My friend's first husband was abusive, and this may shed some light on her seemingly knee-jerk reaction. I definitely admit that I do not know all the particulars of their situation, and the new husband may be acting irrationally, though I do not think he is being abusive. Some distance may be needed right now, but I am still upset by the rush to call it quits without even trying.

I would love to hear more experiences and opinions on this. to everyone.

Whoops, just reread it, sorry about the mix-up. It's been a long night.

Yes, it is frustrating to give up without even trying. If her first husband was abusive, it's likely alcohol was involved, so it might very well be a knee-jerk reaction. But with this husband willing to seek out help and get his problem under control, I don't see why she can't put some more effort into the marriage. Especially if she knew about the alcoholism beforehand. That's really sad. I hope she'll come around. Perhaps all she needs is time and distance to think about things. And with him getting rehab and therapy, he can SHOW her that he wants to get better. That would be enough for me, but maybe not for your friend.

[RomanSunburn]

My fiance and I have been together for about 5 years. I don't remember when I actually told him about my depression, anxiety, and later possible bipolar (they decided I was on the spectrum...). We were also long distance for four of those years. About a year into our relationship, he broke up with me because he couldn't stand feeling helpless and not being able to "fix" me. We were also quite young, and I believe he just wanted to have a fun, happy relationship. My depression was pretty much killing that. Some number of months later, he came back to me. He told me that he realized he couldn't have the good without the bad and that he had matured and was ready for a relationship with me whatever that meant. We had a rough transition back into relationship mode (after a rough transition out of it...) partially due to him studying abroad in Germany while I was in the US, partially cause I was terrified I was going to get hurt again and ended up making it a self fulfilling prophecy. But we have been able to slowly work our way through all the issues (which were made ten times worse by my disorders) and actually moved in together about a year ago. We're planning on getting married in about a year.

So yeah, he knows about my disorders. And has helped me through them as best as he can. When I was hospitalized, we were still long distance so he wasn't able to come visit me, but he made sure that he always had his phone on him so whenever I would call for my 10 minute phone call, he'd be able to answer. Our last year of long distance we were only separated by a couple of hours (compared to 17 or so before) and he frequently came to visit me at my school when I was having a rough week. In fact, my parents worked with him and would even drive him to my school if he didn't have access to a car.

I have been so lucky in finding him. Since we got back together, he has been unwaivering in his support and love to me, even through my major struggles, when I have lashed out at him, and when I haven't been able to get out of bed for days and weeks. He's watched me cycle through all my various medications to finally none at all, and given me feed back on what he thinks is helping the most. He's always supported therapy and brought me to many sessions. We still have bumps in the road, but we're like every other couple.

I'm sorry this turned into a "My fiance is the best person in the world!" post, but I truly love him so much and am so, SO lucky to have him. I really wish everyone had someone like him in their lives, because without him, I'm not sure I'd be here.

In regards to your friend, I agree that she is rushing into divorce probably too fast. I think a separation, without the official-ness of a divorce, would have been a better route to take. I don't know what her reasoning would be, but I'm not sure there is much you can do. You say that she is a distant friend -- do you mean physically distant (far away) or that you two aren't close friends? Perhaps she'll end up like a couple in my fiance's family -- they got married, divorced, and then remarried and are as happy as can be (as far as we can tell).

I understand why your sister's actions hurt you -- maybe there's a fear of her doing something like that to you if you ever ended up in a similar state. But at the same time, i can understand why she cut ties with him as much as possible. I agree that the hoops probably weren't necessary, but she was probably in a panic, and like Roses mentioned, probably only saw him as that man threatening to kill her. Once that happened, perhaps she just couldn't go back to seeing him who he was before the illness reared its ugly head and felt the need to protect herself and her son. I can't say I what I would do in her situation because it hasn't happened to me. I'd like to think I would try to work through it, especially since he was able to get stable, but there's no way of knowing what was going on in her head.

Thank you for starting this post. "In sickness and in health" is differently going to be part of my marriage ceremony, because I believe in it, and agree that you cannot pick and choose what sicknesses you're willing to stick around for.

[mgran]

My husband knew I was depressive when we met, but neither of us knew at the time that I was schizoaffective. Now, looking back at it, I can't imagine that he didn't cotton on fairly quickly that there was more wrong with me than depression. After all, I went round the house with a portable radio tuned between stations, listening to spikes in the white noise in order to track down bugs. I did all sorts of silly things like that... my husband was a sensible man, he had to know that I was ill.

He kept me safe, and steady. When I thought there was a camera in the ceiling looking down on our bed, he told me to put a bit of masking tape over it, when I thought the house was full of bugs he told me he'd hire a friend of his, an electrician, to come and sort it out. In retrospect, that might be seen as enabling, but he was simply trying to make sure I felt safe, and could continue to function despite my delusions. I wish he could have known me now that I'm "stable" again.

Never mind, the point is, he was physically ill, I was mentally ill... we both looked after each other. The last thing he ever said to me, just before he died was, "to have and to hold." I'll always remember the love he felt for me, and I for him, and am glad that he believed our wedding vows mattered, no matter what.

[salukigirl]

My mom told me something that has stuck with me and I think is very true: Women get married hoping the man changes everything and men get married hoping the woman changes nothing.

Sometimes love isn't just blind - it's deaf and dumb, too. I have made it very clear to my bf that there will be no talk of marriage until we learn very simple things about the other's communication, parenting etc... styles. We have discussed some issues of parenting and have found some fundamental differences. So, until we can come to a compromise, change either of our minds or decide on something - no kids.

However - unfortunately or fortunately - my mom has already done all that with my dad and left after 22 years of trying everything. I'm all to aware that you have to love (or at least accept) everything about your partner for it to be acceptable.

However, that's not to say that every recovering alcoholic will always relapse. If that were the case my aunt and uncle (both 17 years sober) wouldn't be together and they're perfect for each other. And at the same time, sh can't be expected to stick around and be miserable for a person who may not want to change.

Personally, I think marriage is a little silly on some parts. My bf told me that his ex got mad at him for him saying that he wouldn't get married if there was even a slight chance of them getting divorced and I totally agree with that.

What if you get into a relationship only to find out their alcoholism or drug addiction or whatever has been kept a secret from you? After all the lies and hurt, would you still be willing to stick around and wait for them to want to heal themselves?

[dragonfly2]

You say that she is a distant friend -- do you mean physically distant (far away) or that you two aren't close friends?

Sort of both. We used to live next door to each other, and were good friends then, but we moved across the country and haven't seen her for 3 years. We have kept in touch, but I would not consider her a close friend.

I'm sorry this turned into a "My fiance is the best person in the world!" post

Don't be. I think it's fantastic that you've found someone so supportive. Some things are worth shouting from rooftops.

Mgran - your post brought tears to my eyes. I have seen other posts about your husband before and have felt truly inspired by your relationship. He was a true blessing, as were you to him. I hope my own marriage will continue to last and be as strong as yours.

My mom told me something that has stuck with me and I think is very true: Women get married hoping the man changes everything and men get married hoping the woman changes nothing.

I love this. It seems so true sometimes!

What if you get into a relationship only to find out their alcoholism or drug addiction or whatever has been kept a secret from you? After all the lies and hurt, would you still be willing to stick around and wait for them to want to heal themselves?

Good question. I think at that point there is a fundamental lack of trust if something like that was kept a secret and that the mental illness is only one of the major issues in the relationship. It would depend on how the person presented it - do they regret not telling you and want to come clean and be honest? Or have they deliberately hidden it as some sort of manipulative ploy? If they were genuinely sorry they hid it, then I would be inclined to at least try to help them work through it. If it was some sort of entrapment game, then all bets are off and the basis of the relationship is likely a sham.

[mgran]

Thank you Dragonfly. I didn't realised I'd posted so much about my husband, but I'm glad that his goodness is reflected on this board. (((hug)))

[dragonfly2]

Mgran, it may not have been the quantity, but the quality of the posts I read.

[disguise123]

well it almost seems like there is very little to add here! Obviously where there has been any abuse, there will then be a desire from the victim to avoid such situations again.
Sometimes to the point of hyper vigillance.
In the case of your sister and brother in law, its a sad situation, where everyone looses.
I would just say that if there was alot of conflict in their relationship post seperation, maybe she was unable to see any improvements in your brother in law, because of the conflict.
Thanks dragonfly, its a good post and it makes us think, which is most important of all!