[PsychGirl123]

I could really use some advice. I don't know where to start. Some background on me is down at the bottom of the post)

I'm a 30 yr old woman dating a 23 year old man. He looks to be about 27 or 28, and in general, is a far cry from your average frat boy, but instead a very adult 20-something guy. (Keep reading before you judge please). We have been together now for a little over 2 years, and it's gotten much harder than it has easier. The person I fell in love with was a very sweet, caring guy, who loved me at my ugliest, held me when I cried my eyes out, and was always there for me. That guy more or less feels like he's fading away.

We moved into a small apartment and things seemed like they were on their way to getting better. I have continued to deal with my depression and problems, and for a while, things seemed to be getting a little bit better. I was starting to make some headway in the process of looking for work, while my boyfriend offered to take on all of my living expenses to make things easier on me. He said that I should just focus on what I need to do, and he'll take care of the finances.

He took on such a huge financial responsibility to help me, and I have always been very grateful. He has seemed like everything I never had and was always looking for. Aside from a long list of shared passions, the nice smile, great family, etc., He really is everything I thought I ever wanted in a guy. It took me a long time to get over the fact that he was so much younger than me, and I had, until a few months ago. Of course, he's always argued that the age difference doesn't make any difference whatsoever, but having clarity out of my 20's I know better...

Basically, the problems started a few months after we moved in together. When we first met, he had told me that he wanted to peruse his phd after college, study abroad in college, to travel the world... I used to think, Wow, what a catch! He's so sweet, motivated, is so smart... After we moved in, this entire phd process was supposed to begin. He was on schedule to begin studying or grad school tests, had to do a project for a work conference across the country, all while he was working full-time. I knew he had a lot on his plate, but we'd made a deal that I would make dinner nightly and take care of things around the house so he could devote his spare time to these really important tasks. We had also talked about the grad schools he'd apply to, to be certain that they all were in good locations for both of us, so if he got into any of the schools, the move would work out more or less for both of us.

Well, he didn't keep up his end of the bargain, in many ways. And a lot of money went down the drain for flights, test fees, school applications, you name it. I didn't let him forget any of the fault he had in that ( though I can't say that I should have). I ranted, pleaded, begged, etc. I said nothing, and he still didn't study, nothing. All in all, he had about 6 months to prepare himself, and he probably only put in a good 2.5 solid weeks of effort scattered throughout that time. I was angry for so many reasons, from the money down the drain, to the fact that I was killing myself to have dinner on the table, cleaning, etc, all while he stared blankly into the tv night after night, and just said "I know" when I mentioned he needed to study. I even tried to give him pep talks and help him with a schedule, nothing worked. I couldn't let it go, mostly because he is so so smart, so bright, and just threw all that time away. These actions made little sense to me. But things got even worse.

Long story short, I later found myself with him at this conference on the other side of the country the night before his presentation, as he scrambled the night before to throw the few hours of work he had done together. And come testing and application time for grad school? He did less than average, much poorer than the schools expected, and he didn't get into any of universities he applied to... but one. The one single application he didn't tell me about. Had we talked about this school? Nope. He was interested in another school in the area, but I had told him very clearly that I was not at all interested in moving to that area as it would be really bad for my career (no jobs there for me). But he applied anyway and was accepted. In the end, the school offered him a full scholarship and monthly stipend, meaning he wouldn't have to work for his entire education I was happy for the opportunity, but felt really betrayed.

I was beyond angry, really livid and completely devastated that he would do that to me, to us and this relationship, if it meant anything to him. He says he doesn't know what he was thinking or why he applied and has never really had an answer for me and even said that maybe he wasn't ready for school, and didn't need to go. To this day, I can't believe that was true. I think he applied somewhere that he knew he had a chance of being accepted to, and thought to deal with the consequences later, because after the 6 months has passed, he knew the other schools were not options.

This whole 6 months I'm thinking, what happened to the guy I knew with the motivation? The dreams? The guy I knew (and hope is still in there) turned into an unmotivated, careless boy. I mean, it took me about 8 months of kicking and screaming to finally get him to regularly clean something around the apartment. Still, I find myself frustrated that I am put in a motherly position in that he doesn't do anything for anyone other than himself unless I point it out and get very angry. But even when I ask calmly, 9 times out of 10, it wont happen.

Long story short, I said I would visit the school just to know that I could still fairly put a solid "no" stamp on it, because it wasn't going to work, and I did just that in the end. I didn't feel that it was fair to throw away my career and my life, for this lucky strike he had with this school, when he really didn't put in much effort into this process and wasn't passionate about it all. I told him that he was free to go, but he decided to turn down the offer.

After a many many visits with his family now, I really started to notice some things... like the fact that he's never really had to work for anything. He's never set a goal and worked to reach it. His family has always given him what he wanted or needed and has made life as smooth as they can. They gave their just enough encouragement to want things in life, but didn't build up enough self esteem to make them believe they could achieve it. Has he just not found himself because he's still so young? Or is it something else? It's a mystery. I try to talk to him, but it's not been very successful. I lot of, "i don't know"s. I am a very open, talkative person, and he has generally been good about having conversations about the same things, but I notice now that they were almost always about me. And I have to say, he wasn't always so touchy and defensive. But lately (the past 5 months), he snaps at me out of no where. Whenever I try to address the way he's acting, he gets very defensive and at first, passively angry, and at that point, starts saying a lot of really stupid things about the relationship that don't make sense, desperately reaching for some saving grace (like the fact that his tone was NOT in fact nasty) when it really, really was!

That school experience by far was the biggest blow to our relationship, but mostly I'm feeling him just shut down or act really odd. We have had big fights, huge, and lately, I feel like I'm being manipulated. He apologizes for something say, 2 days ago, and in the midst of an argument, denies that he ever did the thing he apologized for! Then when he's not mad, he tells me not to listen to him when he's angry. Well, I know that people say hurtful things sometimes, but he can easily start treating me like I'm making things up in my head.

I have NO idea what he is thinking. On the last few occasions that he did that "i never did that," thing, that has sent me into a totally nasty rage. I know this is not a great way to be, but I feel like his defensive, manipulative behaviors are just setting me off. I don't know anyone who would respond well to that, but for someone like me who is not in a great emotional place, I loose it.

I'm trying to be a better me, control my emotions, but he intentionally goes for the buttons to get the biggest reaction out of me when hes angry, and sometimes even when he's not. He has said some really hurtful things when we've fought, to the point where I've been bawling my eyes out, and I look up to see no emotion on his face. Sometimes it's really frightening. I am really, REALLY good at getting a feel for people, reading people, and when I look at him half the time, he looks so... empty.

I've pointed out that his apologies don't seem sincere, that he doesn't express emotion in his face at all and he just gets so angry with me and walks away. Other times, he is just SO selfish and had zero empathy.

Like tonight, I was on the bed rolled up in a ball, dying with awful menstrual cramps. We were supposed to make a (quick) dinner, but he was about to start doing the sinkful of dishes he had left from the night before. I wasn't sure at the time that he was going to do the dishes, but asked if we were still going to eat because it was getting late. He said, "I'm going to do the dishes. Can you make it?" I said, rolled up in my ball, "I really don't feel good right now." He says, "...but can you make it?" UGH. I just started crying, only slightly from the pain, but mainly because I just felt crushed that once again, he looked at me with this emptiness and lack of empathy. He's not someone I would typically say has a lack of common sense, but if there is some kind of emotional common sense, he lacks that. I tired to bring up what he did, and he mumbled "omg" under his breath then basically ignored me. Um, wtf....

This is all a vicious cycle because he does this really STUPID ****, and often says really heartless things, uses a really nasty voice when responding to me about things... and if I speak up about it, in any way shape or tone, he gets VERY defensive. I can't get him to look at is own actions, why they were wrong, or get him to understand how hurtful he's being. I really don't try to be condescending or lecture him about it, but it does often come up as we're fighting.

I want to have a conversation about it, but he shuts down or doesn't want to discuss it. And if he seems like for a moment he gets it? I get this blank faced, "I'm sorry" as I'm crying my eyes out in a puddle of tissues. No emotion. I can't tell at this point if I'm doing something wrong, if he's a REALLY emotionally immature 23 year old, or if he has some level of a schizoid personality or something. He doesn't really have very may friends, and admitting says that it's not good that he hasn't bothered to keep in touch with the ones he had. Even so, he doesn't make an effort and isn't close to anyone but me. He's been my best friend but we've become the worst enemies.

I really want to make this work, but we can't even have a fair fight, or 1 normal day together. If I back off and zip it for a while, I find myself in a situation like I'm in now— nothing taken care of around the house, sleeping on the floor away from the bed where he is, ignoring each other, and not speaking to each other at all. He doesn't do anything unless there's been a title bout beforehand. To clarify, I am typically the loud fireworks-type of fighter, but my point has been that while I want to keep my cool, while I want to stop my abusive ways, his actions make my head spin, and I can't control it. And he doesn't know why he does what he does, if he even gets to the point where he'll admit any of it and take responsibility. Then he says things that just make me feel like I'm drowning, and I end up crying all night until 4 am :\

I've had a lot of boyfriends over the years, but he's pretty new to dating long term. I've also lost a boyfriend and friend, and a parent to death, and have been through rough times, so life is very different, and deep to me. I find a lot of depth and importance in it and feel like he is the opposite, having experienced no life changing moments. I blaming myself in part for my big reactions, that maybe he's shutting down because of them, and that I'm not helping to show him what a good relationship is. I worry about that a lot, but when I can't have a calm conversation about our problems without getting cut off mid sentence because he's angry, or get a snappy defensive remark thrown at me... what's a person to do? I don't want to have any moments or rage, or explosive fights, but when you feel like you're being manipulated and jabbed at, how do you make things right? or keep your cool? I'm still financially dependent on him so I can't leave even if I wanted to, but I want to make things work. I know there's a good guy in there, the caring one I knew and loved, but he's making life so hard, and I don't understand why. He's been open to self help type of books. He bought one on emotional maturity an read it not long ago. I guess that didn't help... I bought him one on taking advantage of your 20's (i.e., not wasting important time in your life), but so far, nothing has clicked.

Any words of advice would be helpful. I'm on day "too many" of sleepless nights. Thanks

----

Some background on me:

I grew up with an alcoholic father and more or less have been in a loveless, abusive, really toxic home my entire life, aside from the last year.

My mother and brother were severely damaged by my father's abusive ways and I had always been target practice, especially now that my dad is dead and gone (its been 11 years now). I no longer speak to her.

Really in total time, I've only managed to escape my home for about 4 years of my life, more or less in separate chunks of time. As with most adult children of alcoholics, I grew up with very very little self esteem, acted out as a teenager, but managed to get myself through school. However, I've had an awful time holding a job since I graduated from college, feeling totally worthless and clinging on to dear life at times, occasionally suicidal. I've had a problem being emotionally and sometimes physically abusive with boyfriends as well.

*Take note please that I am completely aware that I need therapy for my own issues, but have been holding on to money so tightly because I've been in and out of work. I literally can not afford the $15 per session that I can find locally on a sliding scale. I do have insight with my issues and take responsibility for my actions and realize that there are no excuses for them. My personal problem has been how to resolve them and to try to harness my emotions in the moment.

So, on to my current boyfriend and where the real problems lie. I met him while I was dating someone else and was in an awful relationship. We had feelings for eachother, and we found each other again a few months after my other relationship had ended. He had some life threatening medical problems and at the time, we grew much closer as I helped him when it happened through the entire process. He's healthy and fine now.

At the time that I broke things off with my ex boyfriend, I had no choice but to move back home with my verbally abusive family. I was out of work. Every day my mother would bad mouth me, and I could overhear her telling people how useless I was. Granted I am far from a lazy person, but I have had an internal battle deciding to help or not help her with things as she's continued to treat me like ****, even as an adult.

A few months after I moved back in, I got a job and was in and out of the house for a few months as I was pretty busy with work from early morning until night. Then a few months later, my job ended and I had nothing else lined up, and began to be pretty depressed being back at home full time. I started to confine myself to my bedroom to avoid my family and when I did get out, I would experience really extreme anxiety and panic attacks. My car was broken for months, so I literally had no way get away until the weekend came, and my boyfriend could come and basically rescue me on the weekends. (Our neighborhood was not safe enough for me to be out on foot).

Well, my boyfriends and I decided that I needed to get out of that house, at all costs, even if it was too early in our relationship to move in together. His living situation was ok but not ideal, and I was in emotional turmoil living at home. So we moved in together (begin reading at top of post now).

[and_im_still_here]

Your post is quite long and confusing, but im nobody to tell you how you should work on this, i myself am too in a problem somewhat, me and my bf have just been fighting and fighting ive came to the conclusion that i need to get out of this relation specially because it causes me very sick thoughts and well etc. Bad relationships are bad for you, specially if he shows no interest, but then again if he does carry a MH problem then you should search for couple therapy if that is how its called,

[Perna]

I read your whole post and was a little concerned that you were so much worrying about his running of his life. You went from his working/supporting you 110% to suddenly mentioning your job and career but then were back dying of menstrual cramps and arguing with him because he wanted to do the dishes.

I would say to learn to leave him alone. He has his own life and you either want to be with him or not. His life is not about you and your life should not be about him. It sounds like all the discussions you want to have with him are about how he's screwing up your life by his decisions about his own life? There seems to be too much judging going on and too much trying to fit yourself into his life instead of having one of your own.

I would first decide what you want for you and then see if you want him and what changes you want to make in your own life to be with him; not what changes he can make in his life to accommodate you. My husband use to care mostly about how much money he made, used that as a standard for how successful he was and I explained over and over to him that if he wanted a job where we had to live in a tent, I was with him. We can choose to adjust to others if we want but we cannot expect to change the others to adjust to us.

[Confusedinomicon]

I agree with Perna. You seem to be way to concerned about him and his career so he can support you. Even if you cannot get a job in your trained field there are others (part time is better than no income) plus disability if functioning is too difficult because of external issues.

It sounds like he is depressed and needs some freedom. Maybe he is too young and not ready to really settle down. I think you two need to have a talk about future goals and plans. I also think you need to find out if he really wants to make it work. I am almost 23, and have been in a long term relationship and compromise is not always easy. I am creating ways to reach my dreams while supporting my bf and baby (cat lol). It effing sucks because I feel tied down sometimes. Hes at that age too and you have to remember he is still growing up into his adult identity. College does not prepare you for the real world when you have parents who support you.

[eskielover]

It also sounds like you were looking for this person who had such a huge amount of drive & end up so hugely successful that you could be completely taken care of by him without really having to worry about really caring for yourself.......even if you threw in that part about your career. It's rather confusing because you didn't have a career or anything when you needed to move in with him & he had to care for you 100+% & you were thrilled about him going for his PhD....then all of a sudden when he wasn't going to the school you wanted him to go to, all of a sudden, your career issues started to come up.

All is all, your post is rather confusing.....but then, I'm thinking that even at 30, you are feeling pretty confused about your own life.

What Perna said is KEY......you need to have your own life & goals, the guy you get together needs to have his own life & goals.....then if they match.......only then can you truly connect.

Truly think you need some good therapy......& this guy probably does also.......it's not all about age......it's about maturity on both parts.

[PsychGirl123]

Thank you for all your replies. Really, any outside perspective is very helpful. I guess I should have added in a little more information about myself, as long as this was.

I think maybe I have not explained enough of what I'm doing in my own life. From your responses, I feel like I may have come off like I am siting around with an expectation that this person takes care of me, which has not been the case. I do not expect anything from him other than to treat me with as much love and respect and care as he says he has for me and wants to do. He chooses to contribute his finances, and I have always been grateful.

His help was intended to be a crutch while I sorted things out, not to become a permanent fixture. I do also need to clarify that I have my own credit and other bills independent of his financial help, and have been using what I left to cover them. He has taken on all other financial responsibility as far as food, rent, and gas expenses, which I will admit is a lot. I am a coupon clipper, cook 5-6 nights per week, and hardly ever drive his car without him, so I am surely not living the life, living all off of this man. I try to keep our bills and costs down as much as I can. I'm basically the stay-at-home wife, who doesn't want to be stay at home. The problem really is that all that is a crutch is his finances, but emotionally he is starting to become aggressive and vacant when I need him to be supportive, to contribute to the relationship positively so that our relationship isn't another thing dragging me down. That doesn't mean I expect to be babied, but he doesn't ask how I'm doing very much, or seem to care about how things are or aren't progressing. He has been through a lot in the past two year, and I (to the extent that it began to have a huge negative impact on me), I was always there for him, no matter what.

As far as my career is concerned, I did have one...Basically, I worked for about 2 years outside of college (until I was 27), and was laid off from my first job. This job was really coveted in my work force, and I found myself loosing friends over my getting the position out of jealousy. So naturally, when I lost that job, I felt like I had lost everything, for something that I loved, cost me so much, and that I worked so hard at. After that point, I became even more depressed, and spent the next year and a half out of full time work because of the depression, but still tried to find smaller independent jobs to do on the side. Some of the jobs worked out for about a year, but it wasn't full time work or pay, but did allow me time to gain some clarity on my life. I did work again for another 6 months of freelance for a company full-time, but I believe my depression got the better of me and I was asked to leave. I am very good at what I do, and all of these jobs came from people seeking me out for my skills, but the field is competitive and there is high turnover. So while I am a good candidate, there are other great candidates that live closer, etc etc. I have the basis for a great career, but have a tumultuous past and present weighing me down, and I don't want my bf to start being one of those things as well. He knows how difficult my life has been and in the past seemed very sympathetic and helpful, but lately his outbursts, passive aggressive behavior, and his emotional pulling away are just kind of shoving my face in the dirt. He doesn't act like he really cares about me much anymore, by way of his actions, even though he says he do.

We often talk about marriage, our future life together, plans far in advanced... this is not some random sugar daddy I found to solve all my financial problems, and in fact I have been insistent that with my first paychecks, I begin to repay him for all the help he has given me. This is someone I want to build a life with, but he is emotionally absent and in the home, is not doing his part to contribute to our life together.

He's not being supportive, not being there, not caring about anything has just been piling on top of that, and everyone suffers. A relationship is a 2-person effort, and I feel like he lives like a bachelor with a roomate. If I did as some of you have said, and just let him do what he's going to do, I'd be picking up and moving my life to the other side of the country for 5 years (the length of his program), unsure if he was motivated enough to complete school, and in an area where the career I am passionate about doesn't have a market. At home, I would (well, I am) also be picking up after him like a maid, because he will do nothing by his own will. He gets out of the shower and leaves his clothes on the floor, cares about the laundry only when he has nothing left to wear... the list goes on. I don't think that I am doing anything wrong in simply asking for him to care about the place we live in, and to act like he cares what is going on with me. There is a breaking point for some people, and I am at that point.

His choices do affect me. I am home all day, but I am also trying to use that time to get myself a job and out of this situation, so I can repay him, get myself some therapy, just get on with life! I don't want to spend the entire day continuing to spend his money, feeling sorry for myself, and feeling like I'm not worth the effort on his part. Lately he seems to just be adding to these problems, but not caring what is going on with my life, the one we have together, and not caring much about this own.

[PsychGirl123]

Ouch eskielover. That is not the case at all...

Originally Posted by eskielover

It also sounds like you were looking for this person who had such a huge amount of drive & end up so hugely successful that you could be completely taken care of by him without really having to worry about really caring for yourself.......even if you threw in that part about your career. It's rather confusing because you didn't have a career or anything when you needed to move in with him & he had to care for you 100+% & you were thrilled about him going for his PhD....then all of a sudden when he wasn't going to the school you wanted him to go to, all of a sudden, your career issues started to come up.

All is all, your post is rather confusing.....but then, I'm thinking that even at 30, you are feeling pretty confused about your own life.

What Perna said is KEY......you need to have your own life & goals, the guy you get together needs to have his own life & goals.....then if they match.......only then can you truly connect.

Truly think you need some good therapy......& this guy probably does also.......it's not all about age......it's about maturity on both parts.

[Confusedinomicon]

Your description of the relationship sounds like you are mothering him. I dont think his level of maturity is at yours and he may say hes ready to settle but I doubt it. Most people in their early 20s arent ready for that step. You reallly need to talk to him to figure out how he truely feels about you. It may or may not break your heart but its a necessity.

[PsychGirl123]

Well I can assure you that my intention is not to mother him! But as a woman, you also don't want to be a doormat and let someone take advantage of you, and at some point you have to speak up. If and when, he makes poor choices that only affect him, I don't get involved very much at all. All of the things I have noted here are things that affect me negatively, and that's when I step in and say "hey- this isn't ok."

We have talked, today as a matter of fact, and he has never said anything other than that he will try to take care of his responsibilities and he does love me and wants this to work.

[Confusedinomicon]

Actions speak louder than words. Watch to see if he makes any effort to help you out more etc. I heard thatnot asking directly but suggesting can get peopleto be more willing to helpout.

[Suki22]

sounds like his blank, emotional stares is him being just done with the relationship. sorry if this sounds harsh, but you sound very demanding. I know because I can be the same way and once I get to that point where I get the blank responses I know it's over. I'm not an easy person to be with I've found out. I'm working on that, alone. I think you need to find a job, get a small place to live by yourself and work on yourself. I know it's not that easy, but it would be a goal to work towards.

I also think moving in together out of necessity doesn't usually work out even if it seems to work at first. something to think about in the future.

you could try couples therapy. I'm never sure if that really works--I've never been. once you hit a certain point in a relationship (for me, at least) it's hard to go back to the beginning and erase all that's been said and done. luckily you haven't invested ten years (just random number) or something, you're not married, you're both very young and I think it's time for both of you to move on. you've both learned a lot.

thank you for your post. I really appreciate it. take what you want from my post, leave what you don't like. just know I'm trying to help and not trying to make you feel any worse. hugs!

[jaypop30]

Well to peer into the guys mind can be hard. We often can retreat to our cave whether thats in our head or into a room to zone out. This feeling manly comes from being so overwhelmed with $#%@ it stresses us out. When this happens we become emotionally unavailable. Sad yes but this is something I often do in my relationship, and my wife is extremly un happy with it. My wife recently stated she wants a divorce, which I in turn started to see a counslar and founr out I was deppressed. So I have started to take meds, but afraid that its to late to fix. So perhaps he is depressed because he feels he isn't reaching his goals or getting what he wants out of the relationship.

[jaypop30]

Oh and a huge one is guys don't like to be nagged at it makes us feel like you are our mother or either trying to be a control freak. Not saying you are so please don't take offense on that. I really don't know what your relationship is like.

[Sojourn]

Hey PsychGirl,

I'm sorry to hear about all the distress you've been through in your life and the current difficulties you are facing. It can't be easy for you and it's caused you a lot of frustration. Thanks for sharing tho.

The number one thing I think you have to focus on here is your communication with each other. It has broken down and is getting worse and worse. Communication is so vital to any relationship. It will be difficult to salvage things on your own. You need a mediator of some sort - someone you both respect and trust who can hear your issues and then help you find a way to mend some of these problems. A marriage counselor would be ideal but if you don't have the money for that then maybe consult with a friend or anyone who can remain relatively unbiased.

The stuff he does - the zoning out, the depression, the retreating and seeming lack of emotion - I'll admit I've done that too. Things just reach a point sometimes in the heat of an argument where there seems to be no right way to respond to your angry wife/girlfriend. For me, that reaction is just trying to figure out how I feel about the situation and how it can be resolved and that results in a non-response. You're right, there are better ways a guy can respond like being supportive or sympathetic but at the same time he's feeling attacked so it makes it difficult. Arguments are never easy for either party.

It sounds to me like there is a good foundation for this relationship to work out. At this point, it's just going to take understanding each others needs and then working together to create a peaceful and happy environment for both of you. It can be done and it is worth it if you both are willing to put forth the effort. Also, I applaud you for trying so hard to keep control as you do have personal emotional issues that you aware of. Seeing a therapist is a great idea and might be something you want to put as a priority since your mental and emotional well-being are so critical to your daily happiness and your relationships.

Hang in there. Try to be understanding and ask for understanding in return. Try to hone your listening skills (very crucial for both of you) and try not to let things escalate - put out the fires before they get big by communicating. Hope this helps.