[MyOnlyHope]

Hi,
I am new here and sorry, my English is not very good.
I have a son, raised him alone; and now, I'm trying to estabilish a good relationship with him.

My backround:
My mom (divorced) raised us alone.
Mom beat us, called us by names, especially me. My sins: struggled and openly (although not consciously) resisted against her controling manner; loved my father so much; always tried to be independent.
As tenegeer I was so confused about everything, myself, relationships etc.

When I got my son, I promised, I will not be like my mom.
Never called him by nasty names, respected him as a huban being.
But, there was my anger that I didn't know where it is come from, that many times I expressed on my son. I was so upset with myself and in panic.
My son didn't deserve that; I loved him so much.
***He was 6 years old; I started with terapies. It helped me somehow, but still I didn't understand everything well what is it all about.
Then, recently, I read a book “Toxic parents” by Susan Forward and just then I understood what happened with me, understood what effect my mom had on my life.
Understood it just now when I am 57.

Even though I said I will cut this chain of toxic behavior, I was apparently not succesful.
Why? For example, one problem is that conversation between my son and me by phone or email is ok, but not in real life. I don't know why.

*** When he visits me with his girlfriend first, he is critisizing me for everything. His girlfriend warns him, then he changes his attitude and forcibly search for a topic that it can be pleasurable for all of us. Conversation does not flow naturally.
***Many times I feel that he is coming to visit me just because he feels that he is obligated to visit me but not because he realy wants.
***I asked him few times, why I iritate him, why he is tense when he comes to visit me; he comes with some (for me) stupid exuses: dosn't like how I speak on English, I don't finish my sentences, don't like how I keep some things in livingroom etc....

Note: I feel tense too, cannot relax;

With them in visitation, I don't have a chance and plesure to be a good host. They don't let me to treat them nicely, feed them like all moms like feed their children, have a tee or coffe with them and have a nice chat.

They don't eat anything that I cook because my son's girlfriend is on diet (eat just chicken).(Once I ask them what they ate in restourant and they answered: pork legs or beef on the grill.) I am clean person so it is not reason that they don't eat in my home.
Tried to let her to cook and just then, we sit together and then we eat together.

Their visitation looks this way: we are sitting in living room, they are using Ipad, cellphones, messaging while I'm sitting and waiting is somebody willing to speak with me. Rough question by me: did you guys come to visit ME or play games on your IPad?
I would tell, this is rude. But I am quiet because my son would tell that I am always complaining because of something or arguing and nothing is good for me and they didn't come to argue with me.

Maybe he is right?


When I leave the living room and come to my office, then my son comes to me and asks, want I want to do.
What to answer if I feel that it is all not spontaneous but against your will?



We both realize and agree that something is wrong between us . He told me once, he is scared that our relationship will end as a relationship between me and my mom. We are, mom and me are not in contact more that 20 years. I hope we will not end that way because I am ready to say I AM SORRY, I DID MISTAKE, I AM WRONG and I am willing to work on our relationship while my mom was not ready for that.




I think I am also a toxic parent as my mom but on different way; my son regarding Susan Forward in her book Toxic Parents, shows some signs of consequences that one child of one toxic parent has:

*** feel unconfortable in my suroundings
*** refuses any talk with everybody about his father
*** doesn't show emotions (angryness,sadness,happynes)
*** many times I cached him that he is doing to please people (and for aproval) but agains his will.
(I try to incorige him for saying NO if he feels that way)
*** my son has strong feeling of obligation to take care of me
(HE IS NOT LIVING WITH ME AND HE IS INDEPENDENT-LIVING WITH HIS GIRLFRIEND)
*** after I talked with him and told him that I am so sorry, he still believes that I beat him because of his well being (by reading a book Toxic Parents I realized that I was very wrong and that believes and attitude that many people in my country still have, are NOT CORRECT!)

*** he is offten compiting with me. Probably I provoke this compatition in him, but don't know how.
I am telling him always that I am not smarter that him, in some area, I am but in many things he is more knowledgeble that me. Why he wants to be always above me? What I am doing to provote him for that?



Note: Interesting, when we are somewhere else, somewhere outside (restoran or some trip) tense between us somehow disapear. Tense is just in my home.

What I am doing wrong?

[LovelaceF]

Originally Posted by MyOnlyHope

my son would tell that I am always complaining because of something or arguing and nothing is good for me and they didn't come to argue with me. Maybe he is right?

Have you tried turning negative / complaining thoughts into more positive thoughts? That way, you can still say what is on your mind, but it is not hurtful to your son.

For example, if you say: "You never call me and don't seem to care." , that is hurtful to your son, but if you say "I wish we could talk more on the phone, I miss you son and like to hear from you", then this is encouraging to your relationship.

Originally Posted by MyOnlyHope

When I leave the living room and come to my office, then my son comes to me and asks, want I want to do.
What to answer if I feel that it is all not spontaneous but against your will?

This kind of thinking is a problem. He is NOT visiting against his will. He came to see you because he wanted to. You did not force him to see you. You did not force him to visit. He WANTS to see you.

Originally Posted by MyOnlyHope

We both realize and agree that something is wrong between us . He told me once, he is scared that our relationship will end as a relationship between me and my mom. We are, mom and me are not in contact more that 20 years. I hope we will not end that way because I am ready to say I AM SORRY, I DID MISTAKE, I AM WRONG and I am willing to work on our relationship while my mom was not ready for that.

That's wonderful that you value the relationship. Have you considered going to see a therapist to get some help with this? A good therapist will be able to easily see problem areas and help with communication.

Best of luck!

[Leed]

Bless your heart. Don't you think you're trying a little too hard? Maybe THAT'S what is making you so tense. Why not relax and just be MOM.

When he comes to visit, just be YOU. Don't try to be "perfect" -- don't try to compete. Just be you and relax. Talk about what has happened recently that might be interesting or funny. Talk about who you've seen recently that he might know. Just TALK -- anything that comes into your mind. He's your son. He's not a stranger, so it SHOULD be easy to talk to him, but you're making it harder than it should be.

WAS there abuse when he was a child? Did you beat him? If so, then he DOES have some resentments about it, and he should talk to a therapist. He needs to talk to someone to get rid of those resentments. You've said you were sorry, but many times that's not enough. Talking to a therapist is a good way to get rid of things in our past. A therapist knows how. Many he would go. You might suggest it to him nicely. Just tell him you're concerned about him and that you love him.

Love -- that may be what he's missing from you. Do you SHOW him love? Do you hug or kiss him? Do you let him KNOW that you love him? Kids need to be shown that they are loved -- and in this country, we are probably more physical in showing love than in other countries. We HUG and we KISS our kids. Plus we TELL them they are loved all the time. That way we make sure they know they're loved. He may be missing that physical contact from his Mom. Try it and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised! I think right now he feels like a stranger to you. He feels like an outsider, instead of your son. Let him know that he BELONGS -- that your home is also HIS home and he is welcome anytiime!!! So SHOW him he is LOVED.

I think once you get into the habit of doing that, your relationship will change greatly into a closer bond. He needs love and he hasn't gotten it. See what happens. I think it will be a great thing, my friend. Please let us know, okay?

God bless and please take care. Hugs, Lee

[MyOnlyHope]

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

Have you tried turning negative / complaining thoughts into more positive thoughts? That way, you can still say what is on your mind, but it is not hurtful to your son.

For example, if you say: "You never call me and don't seem to care." , that is hurtful to your son, but if you say "I wish we could talk more on the phone, I miss you son and like to hear from you", then this is encouraging to your relationship.

Thank you so much LovelaceF for you answer. I am appreciate it even it is a "critic".

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

This kind of thinking is a problem. He is NOT visiting against his will. He came to see you because he wanted to. You did not force him to see you. You did not force him to visit. He WANTS to see you.

For ex. this last visit he had a business in town to finish.
Why I have feeling that he is visiting me just because he has that feeling of obligation?
Why I have feeling that it is all forced?
What I am doing that he can establish normal conversation with me (with other people I don't have that problem)
Why his conversation is based on criticizing me how I looks,how I talk what I am doing, where I put what..etc
Why we cannot sit down, have a tea, coffee, juice and have a chat like I do that with my friends? (once he told me that his girlfriend and him don't have what about speak. ????) I understand young people are feeling that way in some period in their life, that way. Everybody has that period, but that long?

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

That's wonderful that you value the relationship. Have you considered going to see a therapist to get some help with this? A good therapist will be able to easily see problem areas and help with communication.

Best of luck!

I had therapies in past but never about way of communication. From my mom unfortunately I didn't inherited any good communication skills. And cannot afford to pay for therapies.

[MyOnlyHope]

Originally Posted by Leed

Bless your heart. Don't you think you're trying a little too hard? Maybe THAT'S what is making you so tense. Why not relax and just be MOM.

Thank you, to you too Leed for answer.

Originally Posted by Leed

When he comes to visit, just be YOU. Don't try to be "perfect" -- don't try to compete. Just be you and relax. Talk about what has happened recently that might be interesting or funny. Talk about who you've seen recently that he might know. Just TALK -- anything that comes into your mind. He's your son. He's not a stranger, so it SHOULD be easy to talk to him, but you're making it harder than it should be.

I am trying, I think. Every mom will when their children come to visit, cook some food, bake some cake, treat them to feel comfortable during visit. When they constantly refuse to eat my food, I allowed her to cook and take over that part.
You said. JUST TALK. How to talk when they don't listen, they are busy with their iPad and text massaging.

Originally Posted by Leed

WAS there abuse when he was a child? Did you beat him? If so, then he DOES have some resentments about it, and he should talk to a therapist. He needs to talk to someone to get rid of those resentments. You've said you were sorry, but many times that's not enough. Talking to a therapist is a good way to get rid of things in our past. A therapist knows how. Many he would go. You might suggest it to him nicely. Just tell him you're concerned about him and that you love him.

Yes, we talked about that. He know how I am sorry, he knows history of relationship of my mom and me, he knows about my therapies, he still think that I beat him because of his well being, we talked about that book of Susan Forward, I asked him nicely to read it - but he is refusing, he is telling me, don't worry mom, I am ok. [/quote]

Originally Posted by Leed

Love -- that may be what he's missing from you. Do you SHOW him love? Do you hug or kiss him? Do you let him KNOW that you love him? Kids need to be shown that they are loved -- and in this country, we are probably more physical in showing love than in other countries. We HUG and we KISS our kids. Plus we TELL them they are loved all the time. That way we make sure they know they're loved. He may be missing that physical contact from his Mom. Try it and see what happens. You may be pleasantly surprised! I think right now he feels like a stranger to you. He feels like an outsider, instead of your son. Let him know that he BELONGS -- that your home is also HIS home and he is welcome anytiime!!! So SHOW him he is LOVED.

From my mom, I never had a hug, never kiss. She never said to me that she loved me.
I am so opposite. Many hugs, many kisses, I LOVE MY SON TO THE DEATH. And, probably because I missed those hugs and kisses, I always showed him that I love him. And told him so.
But, when he became teenager, like all teenagers he to didn't like when I hug him in public. At home he always fight against my hugs. Then it became as a joke, I went behind him and hugged him and said to him, I have a need to hug my son. And run away.
So, you know very well that I like him TOO MUCH!
While my mom talked to everybody about me how I am bad person and listed everything wrong that I did (even I tried to be always perfect and not make mistakes) I was talked and still talking nicely about him because he is really a good person.

Originally Posted by Leed

I think once you get into the habit of doing that, your relationship will change greatly into a closer bond. He needs love and he hasn't gotten it. See what happens. I think it will be a great thing, my friend. Please let us know, okay?

God bless and please take care. Hugs, Lee

Thanks again, hugs to you too.

[MyOnlyHope]

Do you think, when my son and his girlfriend visiting their friend or perhaps her parents, do you think that they refuses their drinks, coffees, bear or juice, too?

[KittyKay]

My opinion, LEED is right - you are trying too hard. Sometimes the old cliche is true, you cannot make someone love, they have to care more about your feelings than their own feelings.

[MyOnlyHope]

Originally Posted by KittyKay

My opinion, LEED is right - you are trying too hard. Sometimes the old cliche is true, you cannot make someone love, they have to care more about your feelings than their own feelings.

Thanks KittyKay,
but I still don't know where this tense come from, on both, my son's and mine, side, most of the time at my home?

Still don't know, why they are refusing any my drinks or food that I am cooking? (I am not dirty, messy person, my house is clean and organized).

Still have lots of question.

Leed mentioned, quote "don't try to compete". I don't think that I am doing that. Many times I am trying to encourage him with some question or asking for help (even I am capable to that) to explain me or do something for me just to give him a good feeling about himself.