[toddlermommy]

I am trying to get advice on my situation to try and identify if what I am going through in my marriage is verbal abuse or just normal conflict. I have a lot of information I feel is important to provide so please bare with me! I have only been married 1.5 years and we've been together for 3. I met my husband at work shortly after having my son (he was only 3 months old at the time). I had left my son's father during my pregnancy because he WAS definitely abusive and didn't take long to show it and I was out of there the first time it happened. My now husband immediately took to my son and basically has raised him and you would never know that he isn't biologically his. He treats him as his own and always has. During the time my husband and I were dating we did bicker and banter, however nothing too of out of the norm. I think when I first met him he may have had a slight drinking problem because when we first started dating he told me he had quit drinking, and since I've known him he hasn't had a drop of alcohol. After we had been dating about a year I felt he started to show controlling behavior. I told him I absolutely didn't stand for that and would not be with someone who didn't allow me to be independent, be with my friends, "keep tabs on me" or anything in between. I think he got the point because after I made that clear he has never showed any controlling behavior since, and I'm not saying that to defend him, he truly let's me do whatever I want.
We got married in June of 2012. We've always kind of argued and bickered back and forth but several months after we got married it started to become really bad. We will get in drop down drag out arguments that could last for days. The issue I'm having is that I don't know if our arguing is verbal abuse or weather it is just marital problems that happen in the first year(s) of marriage. I feel that he can be very disrespectful and often condescending. I feel that he often snaps and becomes easily irritated. It's not so much what he says but how he says it. Most of the time he immediately corrects himself by apologizing and trying to say what he really meant in a more respectful tone, but I have a hard time letting it go and feel I need to let him know it is never ok to snap at me to the point where it causes a further argument. The side of this that is confusing is that he doesn't exude signs of emotional abuse in any other way. He is very supporting of me, my career, my dreams and goals and often pushes me to continue to pursue them even when I feel defeated. He compliments me all the time and is almost overly affectionate to the point where it is annoying. He's always trying to kiss and hug and snuggle and I often push him away because it annoys me. I read posts about people saying their husband tells them they are fat or ugly or too stupid, etc. He has never once said anything like that to me. He's never commented or complained to me about the house being too dirty or the chores not being taken care of or complained about my cooking or anything like that, which I've often read on these posts. However he has told me things like "I feel you are very selfish" or that I order him around and tell him to do things that I could just do myself and that I make him feel bad when he doesn't want to do everything I tell him to do. Or as an example of one of our fights, last weekend I asked him what he wanted to do (on a Sunday). He told me that he had a lot of work to do and didn't have time to plan something for the day. I got upset and told him that he needs to make more time for the family and his response was that I don't support him and his business that he is trying to build and that I nag him to the point where he feels it's always all about me. I felt his tone was disrespectful and condescending when I simply felt I wanted him to spend the day with the family and not work. The argument lasted the whole day because we just yelled at each other and went back and forth. I am guilty of saying things to him like "You are such an asshole" and "***** you!", which I know isn't ok either. I get to the point where I'm so mad at him because I feel like I talk to a brick wall with him and our arguments are circular and never get resolved. In the heat of our arguments I feel nothing gets across to him and I could be crying and clearly upset and in that moment it seems he has no sympathy. Another example is the other day he came downstairs and asked if I fed the dog. I said yes and his response was "well why is is water bowl empty?" in a "snappy" tone. I then replied and said "why are you talking to me like that, you are basically telling me I'm lying". He told me that the dog is so much responsibility and that he never wanted it and feels I had to have this dog that I don't take care of properly. That made me even more mad because I feel like I really do take care of the dog. Although it doesn't sound like much, I feel like he makes comments like that often. Most of the time it is in response to things I ask him to do. Like if I tell him not to let our son watch more than 30 minutes of T.V. he'll reply with "But it's ok for you to do it when you're home with him", in a snappy voice.
We already go to counseling and he recently told our counselor that he feels ordered around by me and that I don't listen to his feelings or take them into consideration. He feels that he does whatever I ask him to do and that if he doesn't do something I ask him to, that I make him feel bad about it and break him down to the point where he thinks he is doing something wrong. He willingly goes to counseling but has mentioned that he feels the issues are always directed towards him and that our whole relationship I have never had to change or work on anything and that it is always him and that this one time he is asking me to listen to his feelings and not suppress them. I get where he is coming from because I know I can be demanding sometimes (all of the women in my family are like this), but I just feel there is never an excuse for snapping or using a condescending tone with me. I think part of this comes from the fact that I have been abused in the past (briefly from my son's father and then from my step-dad), so I don't know if I automatically associate his behavior with abuse or if I'm being over cautious. Sometimes I feel if I have all of the control in our relationship then I can't be controlled. I do all of our finances and to be honest he doesn't have control over much in our lives. Our counselor told me that sometimes we tell ourselves a story and it's hard to change that story. So if I have it in my head that he's verbally abusive because he snaps at me sometimes then to change that way of thinking can be really hard. I'll mention that she does not think I'm in an abusive situation.
Bottom line is we fight a lot, and often it gets to the point where we sleep in separate rooms. Usually he is the one to come and apologize but I find myself thinking I just need to leave this relationship before it gets worse. And then on the other hand I wonder if I am being unreasonable and remember the vows I made to him.
Any advice? Does this sound like verbal abuse? If not any advice on how not to fight as much as we do over the dumbest things?

[kaliope]

Hi and Welcome to Psych Central. From what you describe, it does not sound like an abusive relationship to me. sounds like you argue a lot, but that takes two and you describe yourself as a willing participant. you describe him as using I feel statements and correcting himself and explaining what he really means when he has said something inappropriate. verbal abusers don't do this. it sounds like he is really willing to work on this relationship from what you have described. the two of you just have to develop communication skills. take care.

[casurfer]

Wow, some of what you are talking about sounds remarkably similar to some problems we've had. Based on what you're saying, it sounds to me like you are both at fault fairly equally.

An example of this is, my wife used to give off this non-verbal communication that she was upset, but when I would ask, she'd say nothing is wrong... even though what was wrong was she wanted me to take out the trash... but never asked me to do it. I'd go around the house all day knowing something was pissing her off, but she wouldn't tell me, she'd deny it, even though I knew she was upset. In the end what she was upset over, was something I'd totally do, if she asked.

The bottom line is that for things around the house, or with the kids... you do have to respect his opinion. My wife often tries to overrule me, and sometimes it forces me to stand my ground, I do have 50% say, but she really takes control of it. In the end it really annoys me that she does that because it makes me feel like my say doesn't count.

So if you want him to do something, you have to ask, but be prepared for him to say no... he may have a different plan than you, and he may have all of his own reasons for the plan... like going to work. I do think it is disrespectful of you to question him when he is planning on working, to provide for you and your child.... you shouldn't throw it out at him that he doesn't spend time with you... because in his mind, he's doing what he thinks needs to be done FOR YOUR benefit. It's partially your fault for not telling him a few days before that you wanted to spend time with him... plan it out, don't wait until after he's made up his mind what he wants to do.

Guys we're really simple quite frankly, we want to know our wife loves us, respects us, and appreciates what we do. In the end, you really should ask him what his needs are in the relationship, and make sure you are giving him what he needs.... conversely he should do the same.

If you can keep your cool, even after he starts yelling, that will be better. Sure people can get snappy at each other... you probably do it too sometimes... just let that stuff roll, and rather than say something back, you can do something physical, like grab his hand or hug him and ask him as nicely as possible to NOT do that.... basically try to defuse the problem before it turns into a shouting match.

All of this stuff can get better... both of you need to mature and respect each other!

[(JD)]

My personal advice is to either have him move out, or you move out. Only once you are free from the constant "bickering" and "slight" drinking problem (whatever that is) will you be able to work on your own issues in safety. There are steps to take before telling or making such a move though (and I doubt you should tell the T, she seems to have taken sides)... contact a woman in distress=type group for advice on how to safely get out with your own credit and none of his debt etc. If you hint you are leaving before you are ready to run for your life, you may not get out alive if he is truly that angry a person. Be safe.

[SilverNeurotic]

No, he is not being abusive...it's more like the neither one of you are good at communicating to one another...something that can be fixed but will take a long time and a lot of commitment and hard work.

[toddlermommy]

Originally Posted by (JD)

My personal advice is to either have him move out, or you move out. Only once you are free from the constant "bickering" and "slight" drinking problem (whatever that is) will you be able to work on your own issues in safety. There are steps to take before telling or making such a move though (and I doubt you should tell the T, she seems to have taken sides)... contact a woman in distress=type group for advice on how to safely get out with your own credit and none of his debt etc. If you hint you are leaving before you are ready to run for your life, you may not get out alive if he is truly that angry a person. Be safe.

JD I am open to options but I am not sure moving out is the solution and maybe you slightly misunderstood my post. I don't have his debt and I'm not scared of leaving should I make that choice. I control all of our finances and make slightly more money than him and truly could support myself fully so it has nothing to do with that. You mention "run for your life". I could walk out the door with all of my stuff and he would probably sit there and watch me walk out. Granted he would be upset, but there have been times I did leave to take a time out from the fighting, stayed at my Mom's and he wasn't really angry, more hurt I think. There is no part of me that thinks I "wouldn't get out alive". I truly don't think he would ever physically abuse me nor has he ever. He just is easily irritated, which irritates me. I know he's willing to work on it, but I'm a pretty strong and independent person so I feel I have to demand respect and never ever let him get away with it. That is what I'm having a hard time with is distinguishing everyday annoyances that people have and whether that falls under the category of verbal abuse.
Thanks

[toddlermommy]

Originally Posted by casurfer

Wow, some of what you are talking about sounds remarkably similar to some problems we've had. Based on what you're saying, it sounds to me like you are both at fault fairly equally.

An example of this is, my wife used to give off this non-verbal communication that she was upset, but when I would ask, she'd say nothing is wrong... even though what was wrong was she wanted me to take out the trash... but never asked me to do it. I'd go around the house all day knowing something was pissing her off, but she wouldn't tell me, she'd deny it, even though I knew she was upset. In the end what she was upset over, was something I'd totally do, if she asked.

The bottom line is that for things around the house, or with the kids... you do have to respect his opinion. My wife often tries to overrule me, and sometimes it forces me to stand my ground, I do have 50% say, but she really takes control of it. In the end it really annoys me that she does that because it makes me feel like my say doesn't count.

So if you want him to do something, you have to ask, but be prepared for him to say no... he may have a different plan than you, and he may have all of his own reasons for the plan... like going to work. I do think it is disrespectful of you to question him when he is planning on working, to provide for you and your child.... you shouldn't throw it out at him that he doesn't spend time with you... because in his mind, he's doing what he thinks needs to be done FOR YOUR benefit. It's partially your fault for not telling him a few days before that you wanted to spend time with him... plan it out, don't wait until after he's made up his mind what he wants to do.

Guys we're really simple quite frankly, we want to know our wife loves us, respects us, and appreciates what we do. In the end, you really should ask him what his needs are in the relationship, and make sure you are giving him what he needs.... conversely he should do the same.

If you can keep your cool, even after he starts yelling, that will be better. Sure people can get snappy at each other... you probably do it too sometimes... just let that stuff roll, and rather than say something back, you can do something physical, like grab his hand or hug him and ask him as nicely as possible to NOT do that.... basically try to defuse the problem before it turns into a shouting match.

All of this stuff can get better... both of you need to mature and respect each other!

Thank you for your post, this makes a lot of sense. I guess I just always figured that when I ask him to do something he should do it because he's my husband. I'm not similar to your wife in the way that I always ask him to do things and that's when he tells me I "nag" him because he says he'll do it in a minute or later and I know he won't unless I remind him all the time so I tell him over and over to do it now and then he gets upset and will make snappy comment. I guess in a sense I'm pushing him and maybe should back off a little. As an example today I told him I was going to the gym and had just put our son down for a nap. He said ok and to please be back at 3 because he needed to leave for work. I saw a friend at the gym and didn't realize the time and ended up not leaving the gym until 3 instead of being home at 3. I texted him to tell him I was leaving then and he said "Peach! I really need to go". I said I'll rush home and be there soon. Then he called me 5 minutes later and was really upset and said "Great well I'm chasing the f***ing dog down the street because somehow he got out and is running away". I really wanted to snap back at him and say "don't talk like that or cuss at me" but I realized he wasn't cussing at me or mad at me and that he was just frustrated that I wasn't home on time for him to leave for work and now he was chasing the dog down the street in his work clothes. Then when I got home he greated me with a kiss and asked me to please be respectful of when he needs to leave for work. I guess I am just paranoid because I associate being upset and raising your voice with verbal abuse, but like you mentioned I should let some things roll off my back and see the bigger picture about why he is frustrated. I like your idea about grabbing him and hugging me to try and defuse the situation. He'll often do that to me when he realizes that he may have snapped at me and usually I pull away. The more and more I write now I'm sounding like the one who is disrespectful. I just think it's give and take and it's REALLY hard! I hope we can work at it and be successful in our relationship because I really do love him!