[jubileee]

I don’t know what to do to help my future mother-in-law. She is an all around beautiful person: very caring, sensitive, and loves her son deeply, but there are a few issues that alarm me when it comes to her future well-being.

My future mother-in-law is what you would classify as a “hoarder.” She has trouble managing her resources, loves to shop, and does not like to get rid of things, even if their useful time has expired. Currently her hoarding is affecting her financial security. She is approaching retirement age but is not in a position to save due to her storage expenses for the last few years. When she is confronted about getting rid of her storage units, all is lost. Tears, guilt-trips, excuse after excuse come out, and it is very frustrating to remain supportive (or even neutral).

My fiance recently helped her get a house that would accommodate her possessions, figuring if you can’t beat it, join it! Even if she had to live amongst her collection, it would be better financially than paying storage rent each month. She has now moved into the house but still has her units in tact (and is still paying for them). She informed my boyfriend that she cannot afford to pay him rent to stay in the house and she is constantly worrying about money for bills. She cannot understand that her storage units are what prevent her from achieving stability, and insists on keeping them. When we ask her what is in them it is clear she doesn’t really know--but the idea of getting rid of anything is just too much for her to fathom. My fiance was highly disappointed that she could not get herself together even after purchasing a house. Keeping her hoard seems to take precedent over everything else.

Another issue is that she is extremely dependent on my fiance, not just financially, but emotionally. She lives alone and doesn’t seem to have any close friends to share her feelings or occupy her time. She relies on my fiance to help her make basic decisions and when we visit it is obvious she is craving attention and human interaction. She has to be involved in every conversation and gets offended if we aren’t including her in every last thing we do--from watching television to eating meals (even if she’s not hungry).

She is very distrusting of others and likes to assume the victim role when it comes to her relationships. She also likes to befriend people that are significantly younger (and in different places in life) and these friendships are never sustainable for the long run. I am always wishing that she had a boyfriend or a companion...even a hobby or interest that would allow her to thrive and capture some independence. It alarms me that at almost 60 years old she has not ONE friend she can call and talk to or spend time with. She is healthy and vibrant, otherwise, and it doesn’t make sense for her to depend on her son the way she does.

We are now trying to plan our wedding, and I worry about how getting married might affect her. I would like to focus on starting a family and I hope her dependence issues do not get in the way. Sometimes it feels as if he already has a child to take care of, and it’s hard for me to accept that it is his mother, not a child, imposing this type of responsibility on him at this age. I don’t think it’s fair for her to rely on him for everything she does. If she were 80 and needed the support, I’d have no problem...but at this point she seems premature in her dependence.

When I talk to my fiance about his mother, things get extremely uncomfortable. He is always bringing up that I come from a good home and will not understand--and he is right. My parents would never impose themselves on us before they actually needed it and it is highly frustrating hearing her complaints over finances when she can afford to store junk for years and years. I love my fiance and his mom but I don’t know what I can do to help her onto a healthy path. When I suggest a life coach or therapist it’s like I’ve suggested locking her up in a mental facility...I need advice.

[kaliope]

hi jubileee
consider this carefully because it will end up causing conflict in your marriage. things are unlikely to change. are you going to be able to live with it? he will probably always support his mother over you. consider what other options are available for mom. would she be willing to go to therapy with an ocd specialist? what about setting her up in an independent living facility where she is surrounded by people and activities. get her to go to the senior center to get involved with people and activities. welcome to psych central. you will find we have several forums where you can post about your concerns and receive feedback from other members. you will get a lot of support here. again, welcome

[Angelique67]

Hi Jubilee, I have hoarding tendencies but not at a completely extreme level. The thing is, she needs to come to understand what a huge problem this is. Has she ever shown a willingness to go on one of the hoarding shows? They'd be able to help her. It's a lot though, to go through. I've thought about doing it myself but I'm afraid of the cameras.

[hvert]

The relationship your fiance has with his mother doesn't sound healthy. She sounds like she needs some serious help. I am not sure that either of you can force her to get that help, although your fiance could choose to stop enabling her behavior by supporting her financially.

What does your fiance propose to do about this? Does he realize how abnormal this is?

[hamster-bamster]

The only thing I can think of in this horribly difficult situation is your suggesting that your fiance hire for his mom, not a therapist, but a personal organizer. The mention of therapy quickly becomes interpreted as a desire to lock her up in a mental health facility, but the mention of a personal organizer, done in an upbeat way, would not conjure up such a negative image.

As has been suggested above, you need to tread very carefully and consider your own plans and your own long term stability. What if this woman never changes? What if things get worse with age? The latter is probably a more realistic assumption...

When your fiance again mentions that you come from a good form, and thus would never understand, respond with saying that the issue is not that his mother's status is not equal to that of your parents, but that she has been exhibiting severely abnormal behaviors for years if not decades, that these behaviors cause her extreme anxiety over making the ends meet, and that she might be helped with a professional intervention.

I am sure that professional personal organizers have seen it all, including abandoned storage units. So nothing to be embarrassed about.

Another thing is to ask who is paying for the storage units.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by jubileee

I would like to focus on starting a family and I hope her dependence issues do not get in the way.

This hope is quite feeble, if not to say completely unrealistic. When you start having children, this woman would either take them as competitors pitched against her, vying for their father's attention, or, she would insist on being involved in every decision concerning her grandchildren and just meddle in your private affairs.

[jubileee]

Thank you for all of the replies! WOW! I love this forum already

My fiancé (so new I still refer to him as boyfriend) has struggled with his mom for years. He actually ran away to live with his father at 16 because she was very controlling and unrealistic in her expectations for how he should live. He knows that this is not normal, but rather than always having conflict and drama he tries to appease (enable) her so that she is happy. To me, it is clear she is not happy, regardless.

She has apparently struggled with getting rid of things since he can remember, but after he left at 16 and then left again for college, things got worse. It's clear she has substituted THINGS for fulfilling relationships and activities.

I have definitely worried about her future as far as aging goes. She doesn't like doctors and often times lets her health issues get out of control before seeking health. Having seen my parents help my grandparents during my grandfather's battle with cancer, I know how financially cumbersome an health problem can be on a family...yes, it DOES worry me.

She definitely would not allow us to seek help through a television show, although my fiancé has threatened it in the past. He is up and coming in his career and doesn't have the time to worry about her from afar: we live across the country and can only visit every so often. During those visits it can get so uncomfortable that we often "drop it" just to insure the rest of our stay is pleasant and happy.

The personal organizer idea is brilliant! I am definitely going to take this approach the next time this comes up because I understand that not everyone is willing to seek help from a therapist. That would be like ADMITTING you had a problem, and I'm unsure she would be able to do that at this point. I am definitely worried what having children may do, but I am not worried that she would be the meddling type. My fiancé is very aware of her inconsistent and often selfish parenting style, and his resentment from his childhood will likely prevent him from letting her be too involved in how we raise our kids. I can definitely see her being jealous or feeling replaced as a result of us growing a family, however, and I don't want to be associated with THAT feeling.

I already feel as if I have too much of an opinion and have to step back at times to let their situation play out.

[jubileee]

It's unfortunate but she is not the type to recognize herself as a SENIOR and be thrilled about living in a community geared toward them. We just helped her move from an apartment building that was full of seniors and as she moved we saw the turnout of the community that will clearly miss her. She helped a lot of her neighbors do errands, gave them haircuts (she is a stylist) or just was there for them to chat with...although it seemed as if she never quite fit in there, she definitely had a role that probably gave her some fulfillment.

On the other hand, she is still renting a studio space in the community that was supposed to be used for developing her business. She is a stylist, and although she DOES cut hair there, it has also turned into a storage space that now cannot be used to bring in new clients. You'd have to know her to want to get your hair cut there :/

Oh my goodness....I am so sorry that you're having to deal with this.
From what you write, she does not think she has a problem. Your fiance does not think she has a problem and is, in fact, supporting her thinking.

You see that there is a problem.

She needs psychological help. And I really don't know how you can get them to realize this if they don't see any problem.

You can try to get your fiance on your team. But I don't know how....other than giving him an ultimatum because right now, he's choosing his mother over you

And ps.... What kind of home you "come from" is irrelevant. Don't let him suggest that to you.

[jubileee]

Not sure that my "quick reply" was accepted...I apologize if two very redundant posts appear here at some point.

Thanks for all of the replies! Very refreshing and reassuring.

My fiancé definitely recognizes that this is a problem, but rather than constantly cause conflict and drama, he appeases (enables) her. They had a tumultuous relationship when he was a teen--he grew very resentful of her controlling nature and inconsistent behavior. He basically ran away at 16 to go live with his father, and apparently she has never been the same. I don't worry that she will be able to "meddle" in raising our children because he still harbors resentment for mistakes she made in his childhood. She was a great mother for the most part, but has had these dependence issues since he's been little.

She's also had a problem keeping things since he can remember. It has progressively gotten worse over time. She went from filling the garage to filling up a storage unit...then 2 units...then more units. He's tried several times to express his concerns, and even cut her off from having a relationship for a while when he was in law school, resentful of the responsibility he'd be assuming after he graduated. His father currently still supports her, even though she works, and now that he is preparing for retirement himself, he has hinted several times that he will not be able to continue the monthly support he's given all these years. He's been very generous, as they were never married. He always has lent his financial support to his son, and now that my fiancé is working and on his own, he's ready to pass the torch.

My fiancé does not understand entirely why I worry about his mother. I have seen the burden and impact a sick, aging parent can have on a family, and I am very worried about what is to come down the line. She hates seeing doctors and sometimes lets simple health issues spiral until they are out of control. Last year, for example, she passed out at work due to pneumonia--she had been sick for several weeks, self-treating with natural remedies at home. She also let her sciatic pain get so terrible that she could barely walk last year, and did not seek help until we came to town and inquired what was going on. Although she has insurance, she never uses it, and I know it will become an issue at some point.

I am going to try the personal organizer approach the next time this comes up. I understand some people are leery of seeking professional help for their problems--that would be like ADMITTING you have a problem to begin with, and I still have yet to hear her refer to this as something that is not normal and beyond her control.

I try to stay out of their relationship as much as possible because I don't want to be associated with "taking" him away from her or influencing him to think certain ways. If it were up to her, she'd probably move in with us and live with her son, happy as a clam...but I will dedicate my resources and do whatever I can to prevent that from happening before its time. I feel myself getting resentful of her situation sometimes. She's had a wonderful life--traveled all over the world, had her own business, raised a son that is becoming successful...she's definitely had more than a lot of people I've known, including myself, and it is hard to sit back watching her continue to expect support and come off as entitled to it.

Her neediness is unwarranted to me, but I know it stems from some issue she probably needs therapy to resolve. She is very capable of doing things on her own, but seems to rely on my fiancé for interaction. Asking what she should do keeps him on the phone for 5-10 more minutes...and like I mentioned, she seeks attention.

[jubileee]

I definitely feel powerless and outnumbered when it comes to this issue. I know I'm not going to come between a mother and her son. He definitely acknowledges she has a problem, but we live across the country and he hates thinking about this issue every time he contacts or visits her. It always comes up and she never follows through with plans we've made or promises she's made to him. Rather than constantly be in conflict with his mother, sometimes he just drops it to keep the peace and have pleasant times with her when he can.

I just spent a month with them while we transitioned to a new city. We helped her move into her new house and were supposed to get her storage units moved to her home, but it caused so much drama we eventually gave up. They've had years of practice denying and sweeping things under the rug...as for me, I could not stand being there any longer once we "gave up." It's hard to make small talk and try to find distractions when you're seeing it play out before you. It's not my mom, so I throw up my hands, shut up, and focus on my own life for the most part. I know that won't be possible when we get married, however.

Ai yi yi! LOL I don't want to give an ultimatum...those seem to cause a lot of resentment and I know people cannot be forced to change. Afterall, if she wants to live this life style, god bless her. I know she is not happy, though, and it's sad at the end of the day. She's running out of money and credit and will eventually have to face the music. I WILL have to pose an ultimatum when I see money being siphoned from our joint accounts to pay for her storage unit...I'd rather personally move her junk into her house and be done before letting that occur!

[angelene]

jubileee, I'm a hoarder. I can't speak for all of us but I can share a little bit of my experience with this aspect of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.
Currently I'm 37 and have been in treatment for about 5 years for OCD, depression and anxiety, all of which feed on one another. I was headed toward being like your future M-I-L.

A combination of therapy, drugs and an understanding family have me at the point where I can throw things away. It is an enormous step but probably wouldn't look it when viewed from the outside. I still have a giant hoard of items that needs to be... I suppose "processed" could be the word. Keep, toss or donate? It is so difficult to determine that it can be paralyzing.

I know all of your MIL's items seem like junk to you. But when you're a hoarder, things as silly as receipts and magazines can acquire an extremely high value. I'm using those as examples because you should take note of how attached one can get to even the most trivial of objects.

I don't know your MIL so I can't speak for her, but I have every reason to suspect that she cares deeply about all of her things. That she has storage units for this stuff speaks volumes.

This is why you have to tread carefully. The collection she has amassed over time is significant in size and in emotional baggage.

Unfortunately, it is extremely hard to get hoarders on the path to success. I believe you have to really want it, and since she's lived like this for so long, she's not seeing how damaging to herself and her loved ones this is.

I wish I could properly articulate how it feels on the inside.

That being said, she needs psychological help, no question. Introducing the idea of getting rid of any of her stuff will be extremely stressful. The personal organizer angle is a good way to go if you can afford it.
Your future husband needs help, too. I don't know if he's aware that he's enabling her, but he is and you really need to talk with him about it.

The two of you should read as much as you can on the subject. And I suggest watching episodes of the TV shows. You're already taking steps in the right direction by coming here and asking for help. (Don't forget about your own feelings amidst all this madness.)

It won't be easy. Not one bit of it. But if it means healthier, happier loved ones, it's worth it.

I hope this is somewhat helpful.
~ angelene

[nicoleflynn]

I would go to therapy with your fiance....you will need a lot of help.......and need to be on the same page, so you won't be fighting with HIM and....your future mom in law.

[hamster-bamster]

This site just posted an article about it!

And in this article the case is MUCH worse (think rats, dead rats and live rats, yes, rats).

So maybe send the article to your fiance with a preamble along the lines of: "of course this is a much tougher case, but..." and that would restart the conversation about his mom.

Here is the link:

The Hoarder Next-Door | Amazed by Grace

[hamster-bamster]

Another thing is digitizing. I do not know how "techie" your future M.I.L. is, but if she does use the computer and the internet, she can go through her things and digitize them. Say, Angelene mentioned receipts from stores - you can scan them or you can capture them on a digital camera or your phone. Maybe if you create a digital collection for her, she would be able to part with those items.

Clearly, you cannot digitize bulky physical objects, but receipts, pictures, newspaper clippings would all be good candidates for digitizing.

Maybe your son can explain to his mom that it is much easier to find a scan of a receipt in her digital collection than to find a receipt in a pile of junk.

[hamster-bamster]

I hope she can be convinced to get a vaccine against pneumonia. The protection lasts 5 years and she is old enough for the insurance to pay for the shot. So it is a matter of convincing her... probably not a small feat, even though she has contracted pneumonia in the past.

[Yoda]

If you hire an organizer please check references. Call people the organizer has worked with previously. The organizer that TLC hired for me was 90% estate sales and had done some office organizing but she had no experience (ZERO) with hoarding and was not effective in my home.

[jubileee]

Thank you so much for your response! I commend you for recognizing that you have a problem and seeking help for it! That is amazing and you should be very proud of yourself. You'd be surprised; I think people definitely can relate and understand what you are going through. Seeing you make an effort to change probably has made a world of difference to the people in your life...I know I would feel better if my future MIL did the same.

I definitely have invested time in reading and watching the show! My future MIL suggested that we go through her units without her and "deal with them" because she couldn't bare to get rid of anything on her own. Even though my fiancé was ready to take her up on her offer, I put a stop to it. After reading and seeing the show I know that it would not actually solve her problem and if we threw her stuff away without us, she would grow to resent us or feel like we forced something upon her. I suggested that we go through her stuff WITH her to help, one item at a time, no matter how long it took, but my future MIL took the keys back to her storage units after having a lot of anxiety even thinking about it. It's painful to see how emotional she gets, and even though I don't completely get it, I still respect her right to live how she wants (and keep her stuff).

Good luck to you! I know it has to be hard, but good for you for taking the steps to help yourself! I don't know if you have children, but I know it can be hard on families. I hope hearing it from this perspective will inspire you to keep up the good work

[jubileee]

We definitely have tried to encourage this route but we simply do not have the time in our young lives to dedicate to the amount of stuff she has. She has a collection of thousands of VHS recordings from television we wanted to turn digital...after days of digitizing we barely made a dent!

Unfortunately my future MIL likes to talk about things, but when it comes to actually pursuing them on her own...all is lost. She wants someone to sit with her and hold her hand (I really do think it's about the attention sometimes). If we aren't around she will not take the time to do the things she talks about and proposes. She's proposed garage sales, craigslist, digitizing...but she never looks into them on her own, always expects us to basically do it for her :/

Although I'd love to help her, and hold her hand, it is unrealistic (and unfair). We have our own lives to deal with too! Work, school, moving to a new place...it's very unfair that her past is our future, so to speak....

I hear her stories of traveling all over the world and her old businesses...I'd love to do the same in my own life! She doesn't understand that her son is putting her first--buying her a house was not cheap! We're still renting a one bedroom for ourselves and it's hard to imagine dedicating more resources to her situation when we haven't started our own lives yet.

I definitely want to go to couples therapy so that my fiancé and I can get on the same page...I just feel guilty that these are HIS issues and I don't want to force it.

[Koko2]

What's the monthly expense on her storage unit and are things arranged neatly in boxes or just strewn all over? Does she still buy things and store them in the room(s) of her house?

[ChipperMonkey]

Your husband is an enabler. YES, I realize that your future MIL has a mental illness, but at the same time, what right does she have to impose on everyone else? No, she's not responsible for having the problem, but she IS responsible for her own healing and its not right for her to put her baggage on everyone else. Sometimes people literally need to hit rock bottom before they get help. If she can't pay rent on the house your husband bought for her then maybe its time to sell the house. I know a lot of people will say that's cruel, but enabling doesn't do anything to help anyone heal. This woman needs tough love. I know you don't want to go the ultimatum route, but just look at what your future will be. Enabling this woman is just going to get her in deeper. You can present "tools" for healing to her, but if she refuses them then its completely on her.

[nicoleflynn]

Hoarding is usually tied to some kind of trauma (death or loss); is that true for her?

[hvert]

I think his choice of not making his mother's hoarding his problem isn't actually a bad one, if he isn't financially or emotionally enabling it. It's more or less impossible to help someone who doesn't think they have a problem or want to change.

If you live across the country, can her life really interfere that much with yours? Do you think your boyfriend will start picking up the financial slack once his father stops supporting his mother?

I think I would be reluctant to make this my problem unless the way your fiance handles it interferes with your life.

[unaluna]

If i were you, i would separate my finances sooner rather than later. Right now you shouldnt have a problem. But are you on the hook for that house? Or does your fiance have access to your funds to enable his mother?

[hamster-bamster]

I took a few VHS tapes to a place that made DVD's for me, for a fee. They also recycled the VHS tapes. Considering how much time you invested in digitizing on your own, paying someone might be cheaper. The guy to whom I took my VHS tapes gave me a good quantity discount. Since she has a lot, you may be able to get a bargain deal if you take ALL of them to be converted to DVD's. But she has to go with you and she has to understand and agree to leaving the VHS tapes to be recycled. I have not read the sources you have read but based on your reading, it appears that involving her and not doing it for her or on her behalf is of paramount importance.
DVD's take up much less space than VHS tapes.

This is a very stylish DVD bin (the darker one, in cocoa).

I use those because plastic DVD containers look too institutional for me (albeit very convenient). But these ones I have on a book shelf as a piece of decor. Note that this bin has the DVDs out in the open, so they need occasional dusting. There are closed containers that do not present this problem. They do not have to be plastic.