[StuckinRut]

Hi,

I've posted on this topic several times before, so apologies in advance for bringing up the same theme yet again. But my problematic relationship with my parents is something that I find hard to get past. Also the community here normally gives excellent and sensitive advice which I value greatly.

To summarise very briefly my parents are and always have been controlling and toxic. These days I live quite a long way apart from them geographically. I also try to limit the number of times that I speak with them over the phone, since (depending on their mood) they still attempt to control me by various subtle means. Also their general outlook and values are so different to mine. That wouldn't be a problem if they allowed me my right to have different views, but they don't, instead they try to force their opinions and values on me. I don't do that with them and I find it hard to take that they should disrespect me by doing this. This week, work has been unusually taxing and stressful for me. I have quite a lot of responsibility and pressure in my job. Normally I enjoy the role, but this week it's been a bit too much as I've been put under great pressure by my boss. But that's not something that I could talk to me parents about and get the benefit of any carefully thought out advise. Although they are 25 years older than me they are far less mature in their outlook. Also they have preconceived views on most matters and wouldn't really hear (or for that matter actually care) about what I had to say. Additionally they would bring their own agenda into the conversation. That agenda normally focuses on what would be best for them. Finally talking to them my personal affairs draws them closer and I don't want that. So these days I don't divulge any personal details to them. Years of negative experience have taught me that's a bad idea. Anyway I really didn't feel like talking with them today. Also I feel that it's better for them and for me if I can ween them off the idea that I will always call at predefined intervals. They shouldn't be so dependent on me, they should make a life for themselves. At the moment whenever I "fail" to call by my normal time, they text. The text arrives within 1 hour of the time they expected me to call. Their excuse for this is normally something along the lines of "wondering if something bad has befallen me". But I'm a man in my mid 30's and I live about 200 miles from them, so what could they do if I wasn't o.k.? The logic of the argument is flawed on anther level also since if I had been ran down by a car, for example, I wouldn't be in any position to respond to an sms anyway. No, the truth is if something actually happened to me, I'd have to fend for myself. In reality their messages are a prompt for me to phone; a "gentle" reminder, least I should forget them, as if, lol. Today they were much more pushy. Their reply to me implied that they now expect to receive a call next week. How an I break free of their control? I feel like they are still chaining me down even now I am a grown man with my own independent life and my own responsibilities? I'm ashamed to say this, but I'm still afraid of displeasing/disobeying them. Sorry about the very negative/agitated tone of this email, but with problems at work I'm not dealing with things as calmly and rationally as I should be doing. Can anyone advise me on how to deal with this particular problem? Additionally could anyone advise on how to get past problems caused by toxic parenting? I have sought a referral to a counsellor on a couple of occasions now. But generally I think that their waiting lists are exceptionally long or that they don't have the budget and so don't action it. In any case I don't have a lot of time to attend counselling at the moment. Are their any steps I could take on my own to finally put this problem behind me? It seems to follow me about like a shadow in everything I do. It would be so nice to hear from other people who are experiencing similar problems. Thanks a lot!

[hvert]

I've found it really helpful to write about it, either when I am posting for help or reading other people's stories about their parents. The out of the fog forum is very good for toxic parent situations.

Don't respond the way they want you to. Wait a few days before getting back to them. Let them keep sending crazy text messages. Don't call them. If they want to know why you didn't call, just say you were busy, with no details-- or ignore the question entirely.

They have learned that if they poke you, you will respond. They may have to poke a few times, but eventually they can get what they want out of you. The sooner you stop giving it to them, the sooner they will stop poking.

When you do talk to them, are the conversations just them talking at you? What would happen if you changed the dynamic? I found that my mother was always starting arguments with me, asking me for help or my opinion and then disagreeing with whatever I said. I stopped taking the bait. It confused her. It became more like a game for me.

Maybe the next time your parents call, you could start a political argument (if that would be out of character for you). Or just something very different, to put them off their guard. The point is to let them know that they can no longer control you with their mind games. Ask them what nursing home they want to go to. Just something random and different and perhaps slightly offensive that they wouldn't expect.

In terms of getting past the problems caused by toxic parenting, I feel in the dark half the time. I struggle to understand what normal looks like. It took me a very long time to realize that what I grew up with was not normal. In the past couple of years I've realized that some of my friendships are unhealthy-- and that my toxic friends often share some striking characteristics with my parents.

[ChipperMonkey]

You need to set boundaries and stick to them. You need to be strong so that the guilt doesn't weigh you down and you cave to their demands. But really, the key to all of this is setting boundaries and sticking to them. If they call and you don't want to talk, then don't answer. You are an adult and can choose what you want to do in life. Don't let your parents run the show.

[StuckinRut]

Thanks very much for your really helpful replies. I really appreciate it.

hvert: Yes, I do think that writing is some kind of therapy in itself and reading other peoples posts on the topic is so valuable as a way of getting perspective. I think a lot of people, myself included, find it hard to accept that what they grew up with is not normal.

I think that's excellent advice, it's true they have found a way to get what they want (attention and control) and any response from me, even getting angry and telling them where the boundaries lie actually feeds them. In that respect they are similar to a bully.

I think it depends on the topic and the parent in question. My mum tends to very explicitly dominate and control the direction of a conversation. My dad is a more subtle, but the result is much the same. My dad tends to express his opinions without any prompting. I'm sure he knows that I often don't share those opinions. I think it's a bid to convert me. I loved your suggestion to ask them what nursing home that want to end up in, lol. They would be horrified! Actually they would be speechless, so I could try that next time my dad is holding fourth on some matter. In reality I know what their view is concerning nursing homes. They expect me to look after them. After all what better way to control me and my time.

Gosh, yes, I totally agree with you. I've often found that I've subconsciously bonded with people that share a many of the same personality traits as my parents. This has caused me lots of problems in romantic relationships. Not so much so in friendships. I also find myself being overly controlling with people from time-to-time. It's definitely something I need to watch out for. If I'm not careful I could easily turn into them. I think that goes back to my perception of what is normal, i.e. it's distorted.

ChipperMonkey: Thanks, that's a good point. I will think about where my boundaries should lie and write that down, then I can refer to it when they next pressure me. It's important, as you say, not to let them run things.

[hvert]

Worrying that I am turning into my parents also bothers me - it's where the not knowing what is normal really gets to me. I often think that I am being selfish or controlling. Based on feedback from friends, most often this is NOT the case and it is my perceptions that are skewed-- but I never know.

What worries me the most is the feeling that I have to comply with other people's demands. I have no idea where this comes from. If a friend asks me if I want to do X, I feel like I have to say yes even if I don't want to. Why? Normal people just say no! They don't agonize over it the way I do. My father is a narcissist and my mother is a martyr (another form of narcissism, really).

My romantic relationships were really overtly related to the way I grew up. It's only recently that I've realized my friendships follow the same pattern. My male friends often resemble my father and my female friends resemble my mother-- not all of them, thank god.

You are ahead of the game now. You know what your parents want and you know how they go about getting it. It's much easier to deal with them knowing that, I find. I don't speak to my father at the moment, and I try to avoid my mother as much as possible. When I do have to deal with her, I refuse to play her game. I play my own, which is to wreck her game and counter every move with something she doesn't expect.

She used to call/email me all the time and nag if I didn't respond immediately. I no longer respond immediately. Sometimes I reply, sometimes I don't. You know what her response is to that? She's doing the same thing back. End result? I hear from her less. I chalk that up as a win for me! In my situation, I do have siblings she can turn her attention to, instead of me.

The reality is that your parents can't make you do anything anymore. You can choose for yourself. Sometimes it *is* easier to comply. Sometimes that gets old. I think you would have fun shaking things up and giving them something to think about

[Open Eyes]

Well, what you are experiencing is actually "normal" tbh. A parent spends many years being responsible for their child and it's something they do so much that when a child eventually leaves, it's actually a bit of a shock to the parents. Honestly, many parents get so used to trying to help their child through different aspects of their lives that they may not really realize how the child really just wants to finally just do their own thing.

It sounds like your parents just want to make sure you are ok, that's all. You are not going to understand that unless you have your own child. I have a daughter that is 30 myself and I still like to hear from her and know she is doing ok myself. Although my daughter doesn't live far away, and at times she has struggled and just needed an ear too. But, I do try to consider "not" telling her what to do if I can, and remember that while she is my daughter, she is going to do her life "her way".

I think that you just need to adjust the way you think about your parents wanting to have some kind of control over you and just know all they really want is to know you are ok, which is normal of parents that "care' about their child. You don't have to share things with them where you are going to hear their advice either. You need to remember, that when you do share, they are only, out of years of habit trying to give you helpful parenting advice.

OE