Sending a Christmas card to estranged sister

My sister and I haven't spoken in nearly two years, except for a couple apologetic emails that I sent her right after our falling out. We were best friends but also kind of toxic, grew up in a very dysfunctional, enmeshed family. I'm convinced my sis has NPD and my mom has HPD or BPD with narcissistic features. I've posted about my awful relationship with my mom before. Anyway, my sister and I had a very bad routine at the holidays of getting extremely drunk, often times crying and bonding, staying up all night talking about what a messed up family we had. 2 years ago, we got black-out drunk (she drank almost an entire fifth of tequilla herself, I was drinking vodka) and had an altercation. I don't remember a lot of what happened, as we were both in black-outs when it happened. The next morning, I woke up with a sense that I needed to apologize to her. I told her I owed her an apology and she didn't even know what I was talking about.

As the day went on she said it started coming back to her. I apologized profusely but she did not want to interact with me anymore - at all. As best I recall I told her my unfiltered thoughts about her emotionally abusing her long term boyfriend and how she was the problem not him. (Like I said, I think she has NPD, she was extremely verbally abusive and emotionally abusive to him.) Obviously this was not a nice or smart subject to bring up, I have always taken full responsibility for what happened. Since that Christmas two years ago, she has not seen or talked to me. She asked me not to email her, she blocked me on all social media. She told my mother I "assaulted" her and no one is sure what she means by that. I have always been up front with all of our family and friends that I was in the wrong, and I have been apologetic the whole time. Even though I know that our relationship was very toxic, and that I am better off not being close to her like we were and likely she is better off as well, I am sad that my sister is not in my life. I wish we could have some sort of relationship, even if it is just to send Christmas and birthday cards. Not act like the other person doesn't exist.

The other day, I woke up in the morning with a strong feeling that I should send her a Christmas card. I talked to my boyfriend about it and he said that as long as I am doing it for me, and not expecting some reaction or response from her that I will be upset by not getting, that he thinks it is ok to do. I think it will probably be ignored and at worst get an angry email. I can't imagine her reacting positively to it, yet I cant shake the feeling that I want to do it. Is this a bad idea, given that I know she won't be receptive to it?

No, I don't think it is a bad idea. It sounds like it's not going to change anything. Maybe including a handwritten note would help. You seem to really dislike your sister. It sounds like she has figured that out. If she believes that you hold a low opinion of her, then she has no reason to want to be "in your life." It is always easier to see the faults in others, rather than in ourselves.

Taking full responsibility for the altercation doesn't really make anything different. If you said what you believed to be true, as you say you did, then there is no way to put a good face on it.

The only hope I can see for reconnecting with her would be if you could take an honest look at yourself and see that how your sister treated her boyfriend was between him and her, not really any of your business. Also, going around diagnosing people is kind of arrogant. Showing some humility about who you are might go further to really change things. There may be a streak of narcissism in you that you are completely blind to. IDK. Most of us do have a least some unattractive features to our personalities that everyone can see, except us. Has your sister ever spoken critically of you to point out your flaws. If she hasn't done much of that, then maybe your note could say you thank her for not shining the spotlight on your flaws. I'll bet that would have some positive impact.

Oh I'm not blind to my narcissistic traits, I score just as high on narcissism as my boyfriend who has been dxed with NPD. Not to say that there's not things I am blind to, like anyone else.

None of my family has ever attempted to get help for their problems so I just guess at what might be going on with them, beyond depression. I'm the only person in my family that doesn't blame everyone else for all my problems. Unfortunately my family has never had boundaries and was very enmeshed growing up and we all revert back to that when we are together. My mom is one of those who thinks pointing out your perceived flaws is appropriate so we tend to all do it to each other when together again as a family - not that it's an excuse of course. Just something else to figure out in therapy.

What did I say that makes it sound like I dislike my sister or have a low opinion of her? I really wish all my family would go to therapy so they could be happier, sister included. Thanks for your response.

I have the same situation with my brother. I agree with your bf. You should do it for yourself. Why? There's a saying (lots and lots of variations) that when you hold onto resentments, its like drinking a poison and expecting the other person to get sick. Sending the card is an act of forgiveness. Not absolving them of their actions, not saying that what they did was OK. It's freeing yourself of some of the pain. How will she react? Right now, it doesn't matter. Certainly, it is an act of kindness on your part. Your job is done when you drop it in the mailbox. It will be like putting a message in a bottle and tossing it into the sea. While the mailman will deliver it, you will have no idea whether she will receive the message. Hopefully she will. But for now, you will have released some of that pain. Hope that helps. Happy Holidays! ( Hope you use the Charlie Brown Christmas stamp. I bet that alone will make her smile.)

You know, even though I said I would be doing it for me and not to get a response I think on some level I was still wanting a reaction or a response. Your comparing it to a message in a bottle is really helpful! I have been hanging on in an unhealthy way. Maybe I do resent her for not forgiving me, I never thought of it as resentment but that could very well be. I didn't use a Charlie Brown Christmas stamp but I wish I had! It is sitting on my coffee table at home all ready to go, I just haven't dropped it in the mail yet. I think I will now! Happy Holidays to you too!

Well I dont think you should send a card, but if it will make you feel better do it and accept the disapointment if she does not respond.

I also do not think you are particularly narcissisic.
I'm the only person in my family that doesn't blame everyone else for all my problems.'
Narcissists always always blame everyone else, its never their fault!
Also, you clearly care for your sister even though she has shunned you for years. You seem to be aware of your issues, you have empathy.

I dont believe you resent your sister at all. I believe you hurt and you miss her.

Send the card otherwise you will be left wondering 'what if'

Thank you! I do care for her even though our relationship wasn't healthy. I think you can love someone while still knowing that you're both bad for each other.

What you said while drunk was probably true, and she didnt like the truth.

And yup, you can love someone you do not actually 'like'.
I hope it works out like you want it to, at least you'll find out where you stand.

Are you kidding? I sure wouldn't want to meet her, based on how you describe her.

If your boyfriend's diagnosis is from a therapist and not from an actual psychiatrist, then don't take it too seriously. These diagnoses are being handed out way to freely. An eminent psychiatrist told me that he needs 5 years of knowing a patient to feel confident he understands what diagnosis is applicable. Prior to that, he says he is making an educated guess. Non-doctors are making uneducated guesses.

You are quite invested in labeling people. Try to thing about them without the labels. If your family of origin are not nice people to be around, you might be best off to avoid them.

Sorry you pretty much lost your sister it is tough

First of all I would cut alcohol out of your life. It seems that excessive drinking to the point of blacking out causes much harm to you and your family. ( even if drinking is just on holidays).

Second of all was your apology sincere? I am kind of with Rose on this about you criticizing/disliking your sister so heavily ( not when drunk but now). Why diagnosis? Was she diagnosed?

Do you have other siblings? I only have one brother and he isn't perfect at all, but it would break my heart to lose him

Honestly what I would do is forgo cards but travel to her and beg for forgiveness ( sincerely) and make all kind of amends and wouldn't touch alcohol again. That's what I would do if I messed up. Or other option is of your sister is truly that horrid the way you described her then cut the ties. My t says that it's ok to cut toxic relatives out

This thread kind of triggered me a bit as I imagine losing my brother. It would be horrid

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No offense intended but that is not at all my experience. I work in mental health and the psychiatrists spend five to ten minutes MAYBE with the patients. It would take them five years because they spend very little time with them. They don't have nearly enough information to make diagnoses beyond history. The medical director where I work, a psychiatrist, relies on the therapists to inform him of behavior and 100% of our Axis II dxes come from either history or the therapist informing the doctor of behavior in group.

All/any diagnoses of mental illness are educated guesses - by doctors too. The key word being educated. You need to go to medical school to be considered educated? I think all the PhDs, physicists, and lawyers in the world would disagree with that. I took entire classes on the DSM and differential diagnosis. You have to know what's wrong with someone to be able to treat them. I've never seen a psychiatrist but I feel confident that the PsyD that diagnosed me is beyond competent. There are crappy therapists just like there are crappy psychiatrists but dismissing entire fields as not being educated or able to diagnose is naive and in the case of the psychiatrist saying so likely based on ego more than fact.

Labels, like diagnoses, allow us to understand what we are working with. My preference for them is a personal preference, no more wrong or right than any other. Unfortunately we encounter not nice people everywhere, but we can't always avoid them.

Thank you! I no longer drink, it definitely was a very unhealthy way of coping I relied on much too heavily. I quit drinking regularly after that incident with my sister. Drinking did not seem worth it after that, and still doesn't. My partner is a recovering alcoholic so that gives me even more incentive to drink rarely, if ever.

My apology was sincere. I don't know if she thinks it was, but it was on my part. It's hard to say if my sister is as horrid as I say because I didn't really give all that much information on her... I guess that she is, because the stories I could tell - like how she expected her live-in boyfriend to go to starbucks every morning (for years) and get her drip coffee even though he worked and she did not, because she does not like coffee from a home coffee maker; or how he hung up all her clothes that she had thrown on the floor and in clothes baskets, because she said it made her too anxious to deal with it, and then rather than appreciate it had yelled at him to the point I had to leave her home, because he had done it "wrong" although had been given no direction - are way worse than anything I said in the original post. I don't think she's a bad person, I think she is in desperate need of help that she's never gotten.

She briefly saw a therapist but I don't know what she was diagnosed with. The therapist was either very manipulated, confused, or incompetent, or my sister misunderstood what the therapist said, because she came out of it believing even more than before that there is nothing wrong with her and everyone else had the problems. I think that I say I think she has a PD or NPD because it's a way of conveying the way she behaves in a relatable way without having to be lengthy or go into depth about the sort of things she does.

I did briefly, maybe 6 months after the falling out, consider driving the 14 hours to where she lived at the time and trying to make ammends. I decided that even such an extreme gesture would not make a difference. Maybe I should just keep her "cut out" but I do love her, regardless of how it came off in my posts.

I am a bit surprised you are that concerned that her BF buys her coffees or hangs her clothes. It's between two of them. Why is it a concern at all?. I could see if there was abuse of a child but if a grown BF wants to do certain things or puts up with things it's there private business. The main ( or only) grievances you have with her is his she treats her BF. Is this really worth losing a relationship with your sister.

She might need help but there is nothing you can do. We can only help ourselves. I really don't think your apology was sincere as you keep saying how everything is so wrong with her! The whole sibling relationship failed because you criticized their relationship with BF and you still do it ( even on here) even though it's been so long you've seen or talked to her.

I wonder what your t says on this. I'd definitely discuss it in therapy

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was the stuff I was referring to when we had our falling out. The big blow-out about the clothes was mostly upsetting because I was there to witness it and felt very uncomfortable being in the middle of it. She has maintained (they split a couple years ago) that he was abusive to her, which I did not ever witness. Relationships can definitely be mutually abusive. I said earlier in the thread, I've learned a lot more about boundaries the last couple years. My family has always been really enmeshed, it was difficult to learn how to not revert to throwing my opinion around about stuff like my sis' relationship because we all would do that to each other. I would like to think I've learned to be less intrusive and maintain better boundaries in close relationships.

You asked in your post if she was as awful as I was saying, I was answering your question in giving those examples.

I don't see how I can't be sorry for saying things to her in a hurtful way unless I am also sorry for that opinion? My apology WAS sincere, in that I should not have said those things to her. Those things were, in my opinion, true. That doesn't mean they needed to be said by me, then or ever. I will always think she was abusive to that boyfriend, I won't apologize for thinking that, nor have I ever. My apology to her was for not keeping that opinion to myself, and saying it in such a way that it was extremely hurtful to her.

That's really good you are getting better with boundaries. You are insightful. Hopefully something will change between you and you sister.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks!

A psychiatrist relies on therapists, somewhat similar to how physicians in other specialties rely on lab technicians. Yes, all diagnoses are guesses.

Of course you don't have to go to medical school to be educated. But that is pretty much what it takes to be competent to make medical diagnoses. Does that mean that nobody but a physician ever made a correct assessment of what was wrong with someone? Of course not.

There's an old saying about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

It's not true that you have to know what's wrong with someone to be able to treat them. Sometimes, it is through treating someone that a doctor is able to discover the diagnosis. Lots of times, initial diagnoses prove wrong. You don't really treat a diagnosis; you treat symptoms. A lot of symptoms are apparent to any observer.

One of the reasons psychiatrists don't spend a load of time with patients is because their main job is to prescribe drugs to treat symptoms. That is pretty much an empirical process. They throw stuff up against a wall to see what sticks.

Therapists attempt to motivate changes in behavior. That's another way of trying to relieve symptoms. Therapists, nurses, techs and even friends and family are typically in a better position to observe behavior than are psychiatrists. Of course, the pdoc needs their input.

There is a reason why the SSA does not approve an application for psych disability based on the opinions of therapists.

Once in a while a nurse figures out what's wrong with a patient before a doctor does. That doesn't mean that nurses are qualified to diagnose. It's not what they are trained to be responsible for. Therapists are trained to interact with clients in a therapeutic way to interrupt dysfunctional thinking and promote healthily adaptive behavior. They don't really need a diagnosis to do that.

I am not dismissing master's level clinical therapists as being uneducated. But they are not educated as diagnosticians, any more than nurses are. That is not their wheelhouse. Their professional development is to fit them to interact therapeutically with their clients. Lots of doctors aren't even particularly good at interacting with patients. Each profession has its role to play.

For reasons I can guess at, but not be entirely sure of, we've got nurse practitioners and therapists out there who are in over their heads handing out diagnoses. Oh yeah, they've taken entire classes on differential diagnoses. That's way short of what it takes to train a diagnostician.

If you suddenly get severe abdominal pain that you've never had before, do not go to an urgent care center to be seen by a nurse practitioner. Go to an Emergency room and get seen by a physician. If you want help in coming up with a plan to manage your life better, see a therapist. If you absolutely have to have a diagnosis, see a psychiatrist. Most psychiatrists will want to hold off on the diagnosis, until after they have treated you for a while. In an in-patient setting, insurance tends to want, at least, a prelimary diagnosis fairly quickly. Physicians tend to come up with the diagnosis that will justify the admission. Pdocs and E.D. physicians do this quite readily. The purpose of the diagnosis is to enable everyone to get paid. It really doesn't have all that much to do with determining treatment.

BTW, pdocs often don't really know what's wrong with their patients.

Labels don't help you understand "what you are working with." Working with people might eventually help you understand what label is applicable.

yes send the card but don't be dissappointed if it comes back as return to sender!!if she will open it she may have a warm spot in her heart for you still. i;m sure se does, its a sister thing, my sister and i just started reconnecting after years of no contact until i got internet. now things are alot better.good luck

I don't know anything about the training of psych nurses so I can't really speak to what they are trained it. I am assuming you have some knowledge of that. Most insurance companies take diagnoses from masters level clinicians, seeing as that's required for billing. It varies wildly, so ultimately I don't think it really matters.

Like I said, my opinion is that for myself labels help me know what I'm working with. It's fine if you feel differently, I'm not trying to tell you what works for you. I wouldn't treat someone with a schiozaffective dx in exactly the same way I would someone with an OCD dx but that's me. I find diagnoses helpful, but I'm not using one size fits all for any one person or dx.

Thanks for your feedback.

That's awesome! I'm glad you and your sister have been able to reconnect.

When you describe people by saying they probably have this, that, or the other psych diagnosis, you convey way more about yourself, than you do about them.

It isn't much of an apology to send the message that, "I'm really sorry that I told you the truth about what an awful person you are."

This would be better: "I'm sorry that I made comments on your relationship with your boyfriend, which I'm not now, nor ever was, in a position to make judgements about. No one knows what goes on behind closed doors in an intimate relationship. What people see can be the tip of the iceberg, and I was completely out of line to be talking about what did, or didn't, cause the relationship to fail. I did get uncomfortable when two of you were having a spat, while I was there. I should have just gone for a walk and let you two have your privacy."

Let me be more clear than my last reply - whether or not you intend it I find your replies more and more condescending and antagonistic. I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in on my dilemma but I don't plan on continuing to go back and forth with you.

I'm sorry for my tone. I take full responsibility for being in the wrong in expressing what I should have kept to myself.

Most people particularly with PDs like NPD or even BPD will never be 'diagnosed'
They usually think their fine it's everyone else who's the problem.

If the op thinks the caps fits it probably does.

I don't need a 'expert' to tell me my mother was NPD. I lived with her!
She ticks the boxes.
But then therapy is not widespread in UK wereas in USA it seems commonplace.

I would definitely not travel to your sister or get on my knees and beg.
Offer an olive branch if you want but no begging. I've found begging will just get you treated like dirt.
She sounds like a difficult person.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

Thank you, I really appreciate that!