[bishop419]

For those of you who read my introduction thread, some of this will be a bit redundant. But I'm not sure what to do about my wife.

We got married about three months ago and before that, we'd been together for five years and lived together for the past two of those five. She's been struggling with depression pretty much her entire life and while there were definite ups and downs when we were dating, those ups and downs became significantly more extreme when we moved in together (or I didn't realize how extreme they were before).

She goes through cycles. When we first moved in together, she got a job in a kind of rehab program. It's simple tasks and doesn't pay a lot of money, but they're allowed to take breaks if they get too stressed out and at first it was good for her.

But in a few months she got worse. She started coming home early or not go at all. She'd stay in bed all day. She'd eat less and less. Then after I'd been out of town for two days, I came home and she was at her parents' place (they're our landlords and live in the same building as us). She said she decided she was going to stay with them for the time being, that she needed her mom's support and I said fine.

She got worse to the point that she had to go to the hospital for depression. She was in there for about two months and when she came out, she was better. She also dropped the bomb that she was going to stay with her parents permanently and that she was leaving me.

Two months later, she wanted to move back in with me and get back together and we did. But she was in bad shape. She had barely been eating while she was staying with her parents. They try but they're afraid to push her. So if she says she doesn't want to eat or if she only eats a little, they won't push the issue.

She got worse. Although she started eating more, she started hallucinating. She went back to her parents and then that led to another stay in the hospital, this one for about three or four months.

When she got out, she was good again. She started going back to work, and things progressed well for a few months. But then again, things went downhill. She'd stop going to work, stay in bed all day, barely eat.

In the new year, she started doing very well. She was talking in some groups online, she'd go out with friends for coffee or lunch, she wanted to watch movies a lot more, and that's when we decided to get married with the plan that we would work on moving to America in the next few years. I'd go over first and get set up with work and a place and she'd come over after once her immigration paperwork went through.

She even decided to take a computer class. And at first, everything was going well. But slowly, things started to go downhill. She started coming home early or skipping class. She'd stay in bed and stare at the wall or the ceiling. She stopped doing things she used to do regularly like yoga.

It came to a head recently. A little under two weeks ago, she got really bad right before her daughter was coming to visit (her daughter's nineteen and lives in Australia with her boyfriend). The two of them were coming for a week and when they come for a visit, my wife stays with them at her parents' place.

A few days before they were supposed to arrive, my wife refuses to eat, refuses to go to work, refuses to get out of bed. She even emails her daughter and tells her not to come.

I talked to my mother-in-law and she took my wife down to their place a few days early. They talked to her daughter and told her she should come, that it was fine. And when they were here, everything was great. I wasn't staying with them, but I was spending every day with them after work and my wife was back to her old self.

But now that's over. Not twenty-four hours after my step-daughter left, my wife was back to staying in bed and refusing to get out. She skipped work the day after her daughter left. The day after that (yesterday) she went to work, but came home early and went straight into bed. I did manage to get her out for a little bit to smoke some hookah and that got her in front of the TV and made her want to watch a movie. After we were done with the hookah, I had to get back to work so I went to my home office (about half my work is done from home so I'm around a lot). Maybe twenty minutes into my work, the TV stopped and I heard her go back to the bedroom.

When I made dinner, she had a few bites and said she was full. This isn't the first time this happened and while I tried to hide it, it was clear that I was visibly upset. I cleared the table and while doing the dishes, she went back to bed.

I went to try and talk to her. All she was doing was lying in bed and staring at the wall. I tried to talk to her, but she wouldn't even respond to most of my questions. I had to finally ask, "Are you awake?" and she said, "Yes." "Do you want to talk?" "No."

The only things she would say was that she wants to die and she begged me not to make her eat.

Today she refused to go to class again. I told her we have to talk with her doctor about this. She's been seeing a psychiatrist for a while but it's mostly been a medication-only treatment. But she said she only wants to see her doctor alone, she doesn't want me to go with. I told her we have to talk about changing her treatment plan, that medication alone won't work and she needs therapy as well. She said she quit therapy because she didn't like her doctor (a contradiction from a previous time when she told me that this doctor is one that she really likes). I said we'll find her a new doctor. She said she didn't want therapy.

I kept trying to suggest things and she would shoot them down. I ask her to tell me what she's feeling and all she says is, "I'm comfortable lying in bed. I want you to go away. Leave me alone."

I don't know what to do. She won't get help and my Japanese isn't very good so I don't know how I can really get her any more help. Mental health care in Japan is pretty much a total joke here to begin with—doctors just stuff patients with pills from pharmaceutical companies who give them kickbacks and mental illness isn't regarded with any sort of seriousness by Japanese society. We're very far from urban areas where we might have access to bilingual doctors I could speak with.

How do I deal with this? When I try and tell her that she has to eat, that she has to try to do things to keep her distracted, she feels like I'm attacking her. If I do anything other than just let her lie in bed and not eat, she says I'm upsetting her. But if I do nothing, then the problem will only get worse.

I don't want my marriage to end after only three months but I don't know what I can do. If she won't lift a finger to help herself, how can I possibly do it all on my own?

[Bill3]

Is your Japanese good enough to inform her psychiatrist in summary what you told us about her most recent days?

How did she get admitted to the hospitals you mentioned?

[bishop419]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Is your Japanese good enough to inform her psychiatrist in summary what you told us about her most recent days?

How did she get admitted to the hospitals you mentioned?

Both times, I believe the admission was voluntary. I'm not sure if it was at the request of her doctor or parents, she never told me.

I do know enough Japanese to communicate these issues to her doctor. But the problem is seeing her doctor. As I said, my wife refuses to have me go with and I have no way of contacting the doctor myself. She has the doctor's contact information, won't give it to me if I ask for it, and won't tell me where she keeps it. I don't even know the doctor's name and even if I did, I wouldn't know how it's written in kanji. So there's no way for me to look up the information in the phonebook.

[Bill3]

That is a tough and heartrending situation. I'm sorry.

Maybe her parents know the doctor's name?

Can you ask the police to do what in my experience is called a wellness check? Perhaps you could go to a local emergency room and explain the situation to them?

[bishop419]

I don't think a wellness check is something we have out here. I've never heard of that before and wouldn't know how to communicate that in Japanese. I also wouldn't be able to get her to the emergency room, she won't leave the house at all. She says she'll eat today and go to class tomorrow. If she doesn't, then I'm going to talk to her parents.

[guilloche]

Oh wow... I just wanted to say that I'm sorry, that sounds like a really terrible position to be in.

Do you think that her parents might have the contact info for her doctors? Could you try them? How is your relationship with them... could you all get together and have an intervention of sorts?

Are you American, is that why you're looking at coming to America in a few years (and don't write Japanese well)? I'm having trouble imagining that moving to America would improve your wife's condition... she'd be far from her family (that it seems like she depends on) and home. It seems like she could get worse? (And good mental health care isn't a given... I'm still struggling to find a good therapist for myself... it's not easy, and not cheap!)

I think that the thing that worries me the most is that she won't share info with you. You're married. She's unable to care for herself. Even though I'm a big believer in privacy and having your own space, that kind of goes out the window when you show that you can't take care of yourself... and really, that's one of the benefits of having a spouse. They can help you when you can't help yourself. So, the fact that she's completely unwilling to give you her doctor's information, or even talk to you about what's going on... kind of makes me worried for you.

I'm sorry. I can't imagine being tied to somebody like that... and I'm struggling with my own depression. It's not her fault that she's depressed, and it's not something that she can just snap out of -- but it IS her fault and responsibility that she seems to be refusing to get help, and to let her doctors know what's going on. It seems like you're in a really unfair position, since she won't do the things she needs to get better, but also won't let you do the things that you need to do to help her. It's a no win situation.

How does she feel about the time that she spent in the hospital? Have you tried talking to her about going back voluntarily? Does she recognize how bad it's gotten?

[bishop419]

Do you think that her parents might have the contact info for her doctors? Could you try them? How is your relationship with them... could you all get together and have an intervention of sorts?

We have a pretty good relationship despite the language difficulties. They've been really great to us. Like I said in the last post, I'm going to talk to them tomorrow if she stays the same, see if they can help me set up a meeting with the doctor.

Are you American, is that why you're looking at coming to America in a few years (and don't write Japanese well)? I'm having trouble imagining that moving to America would improve your wife's condition... she'd be far from her family (that it seems like she depends on) and home. It seems like she could get worse? (And good mental health care isn't a given... I'm still struggling to find a good therapist for myself... it's not easy, and not cheap!)

Yes, I'm American. Better mental health care is just one of the reasons I want to take her to America. There are other reasons as well. At the moment, I'm working a number of part-time jobs, many of them I do not enjoy doing at all. My income from online work is slowly starting to grow. I'm a self-published author and that money paid through Amazon is reported to the IRS as taxable income. And being an American citizen, I get taxed regardless of where in the world I live. This is starting to create an increasingly confusing taxation system since I also have to pay taxes in Japan and am now starting to run the risk of being double-taxed. Moving to the States would give me more opportunities to expand my business as well as find new avenues for work.

As the taxation becomes more and more complicated, there's also the question of how we deal with that. My mother-in-law basically does all our tax returns for us but she won't be around forever and once she dies, my wife has no idea how to do it and my Japanese isn't good enough to navigate these extremely difficult documents.

There's also just the stress of daily life. My wife is fluent in Japanese and English but my Japanese is basically just conversational. It really restricts my ability to advance in employment and as I'm pretty much working around the clock right now, I have very little time to improve my Japanese ability.

Another concern is retirement. Japanese pension plans are a total joke and it's only going to get worse with the aging population. The Japanese Supreme Court also recently ruled that an elderly foreign permanent resident who had paid taxes all her life wasn't eligible for welfare services. As the population ages and more strain is put on the pension system, I'm afraid of a very likely possibility where that precedent will be applied to pension payouts as well.

At least in the States, I speak the language, I know how the systems work (and if not, I can easily learn), I have better opportunities to make more money, and I can take care of things. Here, I'm dependent on my wife who is not really in a position to be depended on.

How does she feel about the time that she spent in the hospital? Have you tried talking to her about going back voluntarily? Does she recognize how bad it's gotten?

It wasn't something she wants to repeat. She recognizes how bad it's gotten, she just doesn't care. She refuses to lift a finger to do anything. Whenever I ask her about doing anything to help herself, she just says she's tired of trying, nothing will ever change, and she just wants to die.

[Bill3]

I also wouldn't be able to get her to the emergency room, she won't leave the house at all.

I did not quite make myself clear, I'm sorry. I think that at some point she could become an emergency due to her complete failure to thrive or care for herself or even eat. Perhaps there might be a time in which you or her parents can invite emergency medical personnel to your house to assess her situation? I suppose though that your regular doctor perhaps could tell you how that might work in Japan?

[bishop419]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I did not quite make myself clear, I'm sorry. I think that at some point she could become an emergency due to her complete failure to thrive or care for herself or even eat. Perhaps there might be a time in which you or her parents can invite emergency medical personnel to your house to assess her situation? I suppose though that your regular doctor perhaps could tell you how that might work in Japan?

That's the issue, I don't have any contact with her doctor and I have no doctor of my own.

[Bill3]

Perhaps her parents could communicate with doctors of their own for guidance?

[~Christina]

Can you have a friend or pay someone that can translate for you so that her Doctor is given all the information needed and then something can be done about her current treatment that is obviously isn't working .

Regardless of medications and Therapy a person must WANT to get better and work daily to maintain a more balanced life. Meds can only do so much

This constant leaving to go to her Mothers is just not healthy for your marriage,, yes we all often seek comfort in our parents.. But there are limits I feel.

Im sorry that your having such trouble. i hope you can find a solution.

[bishop419]

Originally Posted by Bill3

Perhaps her parents could communicate with doctors of their own for guidance?

She said she would eat today and go back to class tomorrow. So far she's been living up to the eating portion of that. But if that changes, I'm going to talk to her parents first thing in the morning about ways to get in touch with her doctor.

[bishop419]

Originally Posted by ~Christina

Can you have a friend or pay someone that can translate for you so that her Doctor is given all the information needed and then something can be done about her current treatment that is obviously isn't working .

Regardless of medications and Therapy a person must WANT to get better and work daily to maintain a more balanced life. Meds can only do so much

This constant leaving to go to her Mothers is just not healthy for your marriage,, yes we all often seek comfort in our parents.. But there are limits I feel.

Im sorry that your having such trouble. i hope you can find a solution.

Finding a way to get in touch with the doctor is the issue. She doesn't want me to talk to her doctor. I think there's a shame element to her resistance for me to speak with her doctor.

I agree with you about her parents. I know they're trying to help but I also don't think it's healthy. Which also makes me reluctant to enlist their help, because their solution is always, "she'll come stay with us." If things are still the same tomorrow, I'm going to talk to them and stress that we need to get her counseling and that constantly going to stay with them isn't helping her.

[Yoda]

It took me several years of trying different antidepressants to find that helped my depression. (I am bipolar but initially I was continually depressed more than manic).

A good doctor would evaluate the effectiveness of an antidepressant (some take several weeks to help) and if the med is not helping her mood then adjust the dosage or try another med. I am on several different meds.

When my depression was severe I would often sleep eighteen hours per day to avoid the world. At that time I did not think it would change.

Does she consistently take her meds as prescribed?

I don't know if Japan offers this but I was in Intensive Outpatient for a bit. Most of it was group therapy and meeting individually with a therapist once or twice a month. Most programs run four to five hours a day. Some people go five days a week but later cut back to one or two days a week as they improve. But again the question is will she get out of bed to attend the sessions.

Does she have a case manager beside her doctor?

[bishop419]

When my depression was severe I would often sleep eighteen hours per day to avoid the world. At that time I did not think it would change.

She's definitely gone through phases like that.

Does she consistently take her meds as prescribed?

Yeah, she does. She's actually pretty good about that. She has to take them three times a day and she has them organized in a pillbox by dosage.

I don't know if Japan offers this but I was in Intensive Outpatient for a bit. Most of it was group therapy and meeting individually with a therapist once or twice a month. Most programs run four to five hours a day. Some people go five days a week but later cut back to one or two days a week as they improve. But again the question is will she get out of bed to attend the sessions.

I know there was some of that when she was hospitalized but not sure if there's an outpatient version of it. I'll keep it in mind and see if something like that exists or if it can be arranged.

And yeah, the question is will she actually go to them? She's pretty good about keeping appointments with her doctor but we'll have to see.

Does she have a case manager beside her doctor?

Just the one doctor, although she has also kind of acted as a case manager. She helped my wife get into the work program I mentioned before and she also helped her sign up for the computer class she's currently taking.

[Yoda]

Does she have a hobby or other interests that she enjoys (or did enjoy)?

Sometimes when I regress and sleep ten or twelve hours per day my adult son who lives with me will tell me just get on the internet and play video games or whatever I enjoy. He thinks that even video games or youtube videos is better for me than excessive sleep. Some days I have some energy and can clean house a bit and other days I accomplish nothing.

Does she like to draw or paint art? I am not good at it but I find the process therapeutic.

[bishop419]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Does she have a hobby or other interests that she enjoys (or did enjoy)?

Sometimes when I regress and sleep ten or twelve hours per day my adult son who lives with me will tell me just get on the internet and play video games or whatever I enjoy. He thinks that even video games or youtube videos is better for me than excessive sleep. Some days I have some energy and can clean house a bit and other days I accomplish nothing.

Does she like to draw or paint art? I am not good at it but I find the process therapeutic.

She's given up most of her hobbies. For a time she was doing some sewing work but she stopped. I tried to convince her to pick it up again but she wouldn't. Occasionally she'll play games on her phone or watch videos on YouTube, surf Reddit, or watch Netflix. She also liked to read books a lot. But lately she isn't even doing that. I keep leaving the iPad by her bed and encouraging her to use it, telling her to read some of the books she has by the bed, but there are times when she just wants to stare at the wall.

[Hairball]

May I ask what she was like when u met her and what made u fall in love with her?

And at what point in the relationship did this start happening?

[bishop419]

Originally Posted by Hairball

May I ask what she was like when u met her and what made u fall in love with her?

And at what point in the relationship did this start happening?

She was a lot more lively and friendly when I met her. Very kind and considerate of others. The kindness hasn't gone away.

Early in our relationship, I knew she suffered from depression. There were many times when she didn't want to go out and be around other people. But it's only in the past two years that things have gotten this bad.

[divine1966]

She appears living with her parents more than with you and for me it will be enough grounds for divorce. I understand depression and her suffering but personally I would not handle a spouse laying in bed all day or living with his parents. Too much for me. Just my opinion.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, I will answer your direct question of what do you do.

Either be stronger, or leave. Decide what you want/are able to do.

As someone who also has wanted to die, I can tell you that she probably is not taking those meds. She may not be seeing a doctor either.

Depression is exhausting. She probably has no desire to help herself at all. Don't trust her to.

It's up to the individual (you) to decide how much of yourself you can give. If not for my husband, I would not be here. Even today, now that I am kinda okay/kinda horrible as opposed to just plain...nothing, I would have no ill will toward him (speaking strictly from a relationship viewpoint) if he called it quits. I would understand.

I am sorry you are going through this.

[bishop419]

Originally Posted by divine1966

She appears living with her parents more than with you and for me it will be enough grounds for divorce.

I'm not sure where you got that from. When she moved in with her parents, she was there for a total of three months before she wanted to move back in with me. The times her mother has asked her to come back have been for a night or two or a week tops. Since we moved in together, she's stayed with me for more time than she's stayed with them and she wants to stay in my place. The times she's gone to stay with her parents have been at their request, not hers.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by bishop419

I'm not sure where you got that from. When she moved in with her parents, she was there for a total of three months before she wanted to move back in with me. The times her mother has asked her to come back have been for a night or two or a week tops. Since we moved in together, she's stayed with me for more time than she's stayed with them and she wants to stay in my place. The times she's gone to stay with her parents have been at their request, not hers.

Ok my mistake sorry. She does not stay there more than with you. But she stays there more than typical spouse would. I never said she stays there because she wants to or because they request. I am just saying that personally for me if my spouse would stay with his parents two nights a week or a night it would not work for me. Especially if it isn't because they are elderly and need care. Typically spouses live together full time not going to stay with parents. I am just saying it wouldn't work for me. If it works for you it's all good. I am just saying my personal opinion.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bishop419]

Originally Posted by divine1966

Ok my mistake sorry. She does not stay there more than with you. But she stays there more than typical spouse would. I never said she stays there because she wants to or because they request. I am just saying that personally for me if my spouse would stay with his parents two nights a week or a night it would not work for me. Especially if it isn't because they are elderly and need care. Typically spouses live together full time not going to stay with parents. I am just saying it wouldn't work for me. If it works for you it's all good. I am just saying my personal opinion.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Stop making things up. I never said she stays there a few nights a week or one night a week. A few months two years ago she stayed with her parents and then she came back to live with me. Since then, other than staying with them when her daughter's in town and also staying with them, she's only gone there on very rare occasions.

[divine1966]

Ok. No problem. I think I just got confused with events and time frames. It was a lot to follow. Good luck in your marriage

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk