Okay, so I have known the male friend in question a couple of years, we used to work together - and I have been with my husband over 20 years.

To give some background on me, I am quite an introverted person, although sociable and I have never had a whole load of friends. I actually ended up quite isolated at one point (as a young parent) because I hadn't maintained friendships, although up to a point I was okay because I had my husband and son and pretty much lived for them as well as my close family.

When son grew up my world was pretty small and I began to work at making and building friendships, it wasn't always easy to find people to click with though. I will add it wasn't helped by the fact my husband will only socialise with his own friends who he has had for years (who I like) and he does not like people coming back to the house so we can't have people over. My luck did change and I did meet some great friends, mostly through volunteering and also sport. I can't over emphasise how much this small group of close friendships matter to me.

At first husband was okay that one of these friends happened to be a man but over time that changed, I believe he may always have felt uneasy but was trying to override it. He has met this friend, and although it's fair to say they are not the same type of people and would never have chosen each other as friends they got on okay at the time. I wanted my husband to see that there was nothing to fear about this friendship, and I also wanted my friend to meet my family who are a big part of my life - friend (hereby known as f) has commented several times that it is clear to him how much I love my husband.

About a year ago my husband asked me not to go to f's place alone, I agreed, it was easy enough to meet up in cafes etc. Several months later he came in drunk one night and told me could never see f again because it was not decent for a married woman to have a male friend and I was setting a bad example to my son. I was actually coping with a period of depression at this point and being told I could not see a friend hit me hard. I did not see f for over a month, then husband said it was okay I could see him, f was actually very supportive with my MH issues as he has family experience of it, it heped me hugely to have someone outside my family to talk stuff over with.

Things were okay a while then again over a month ago husband (not drunk this time) told me I was not to see f alone. I complied and only made arrangements to see him with our friends in common (two women who are also good friends), unfortunately both other friends have busy lives and if they dropped out then it meant no chaperone so no meeting allowed. F continued to meet up with the others alone, their husbands were okay about it and did not see a threat.

This week I was due to meet up with f and another friend but she had to drop out, I asked my husband and he said it was okay I could still go, so it's like he's changed his mind again for the time being anyway.

The thing is I'm now like a bag of nerves, I'm on alert when I'm with f conscious of what I say, how I sit, what I'm wearing, questioning myself constantly. I always sit a distance from him, never touch him (he did pat me on the shoulder when we said goodbye and even that innocent gesture had me nervous). I worry that my husband will change his mind again and another angry outburst will come at me. Maybe it would be easier to fizzle out this friendship, but actually f is a really good friend, he's never been inappropriate, he's an introvert like me, he gets my MH issues and he's an all round nice guy. I keep my eye out for a suitable match for him, because he'd be a real catch for the right woman.



I'm not sure how to progress with this. My husband seems to switch between being okay with my friendship with f an not with little warning.

Thoughts?

[LucyG]

I can understand your situation as I'm the type of women who can talk to men much, much more easily than to women so I've had a lot of male friends over the years.

The thing about men and women being friends is that unless one of them is gay, the man ALWAYS wants to sleep with the woman. It's just who they are, and your husband knows this is at the core of all men so he doesn't trust your friend. Plus, he's competition to your husband so your husband is jealous of him.

Did you ever watch The Office? If so, do you remember when Pam told Roy that she and Jim had kissed? Roy then tried to attack Jim, and later it came out the Roy figured Jim was gay or something, not that he was in love with Pam. I suspect your husband thinks your friend is in love with your, or could be so he's concerned about losing you.

[TishaBuv]

If the situation were reversed, and your h had an attractive female friend he was close with, how would you feel?

Originally Posted by LucyG

The thing about men and women being friends is that unless one of them is gay, the man ALWAYS wants to sleep with the woman. It's just who they are, and your husband knows this is at the core of all men so he doesn't trust your friend. Plus, he's competition to your husband so your husband is jealous of him.

Thanks LucyG, I've quoted your paragraph above because I think this exactly what he is fearing. He said he doesn't think we are having an affair but that eventually we will. He thinks like you say that at the core all men want to sleep with women they are friends with.

I can't know what is really in f's head, he shows no outward signs of attraction, he's straight and he's told me about his crushes and I've noticed him checking other women out when we've been places together. At the same time his closest friend is a lesbian so he is very capable of relating to women as friends in non-sexual way.

Regardless of the reality of f's intentions (or not), I do think you are right - he sees f as competition. I have tried reassurance that I know the difference between friendship and the love that we have together. Not sure what else I can do short of losing one of the few trusted friends I have.

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

If the situation were reversed, and your h had an attractive female friend he was close with, how would you feel?

It's interesting you ask that but before we married he had an attractive married female friend who was going through a rough time in her relationship, she used to confide in him about all kinds of personal stuff, they often met alone. I never saw her as a threat. This may be big headed of me but I never doubted his feelings for me, she was nice, I liked her and I trusted them both.

My friend f is not conventional looking, if that's at all relevant, he has a birth defect which affects his appearance. I notice when I'm out with him people double take in a way they don't do usually. I guess I noticed how he looked different when I first met him but I don't think about it now I know him so well. Slight digression but may or may not be relevant - the point I'm making is I don't fancy him.

I wish me and H had the opposite gender friends conversation many years ago, this was not helped by the fact when he met me I was Billy no mates.

[TishaBuv]

You can remind him of his old lady friend to make your point. If he gets flustered about her, maybe something did happen between them.

[TishaBuv]

I know I'm going to get flack, but it's true, everyone of opposite sex isn't really just friends if they are attracted. They may not act on it but they are still feeling it. Same sex too if they are attracted.

I did actually remind him about this woman and he said it was different as we weren't married then, I'm as sure as I can be that they were above board.

I won't give you flack, that's your opinion about opposite sex friends and maybe you're right. I have quite a few friends who are men but best I can describe is brotherly/sisterly feelings - this friend though is different in that we are closer, I didn't tell most of my friends about MH issues for example.

[unaluna]

Your husband is being rather ungenerous. Maybe he should work on his own good points. I dont know how to communicate that in a nice way. It reminds me of trump making fun of the disabled reporter.

Originally Posted by unaluna

Your husband is being rather ungenerous. Maybe he should work on his own good points. I dont know how to communicate that in a nice way. It reminds me of trump making fun of the disabled reporter.

Actually it's strange you should pick up on that, I didn't mention in my post but my husband has on a couple of occasions been very ungenerous about the different physical appearance of my friend - it's fuelled by jealousy but it made me cringe. He has gone back on his words when he cooled down. He's no Trump thank goodness but yes I know what you mean.

Going places with this friend has been a real eye opener, I truly did not realise how many people look at you differently when you don't look 'standard' for want of a better word.

[Bill3]

How often would you see f if your husband did not make an issue of it?

Originally Posted by Bill3

How often would you see f if your husband did not make an issue of it?

I guess every couple of weeks. It's difficult to organise anyway with different work shifts/commitments.

My concern isn't really the frequency, more that my h will change his mind and I will lose a friendship. I spent a long time isolated and I have a fear I'll end up back there.

[Cyllya]

There's this train of thought that goes... Men always want to have sex with any woman, therefore, your friend wants to have sex with you, therefore you aren't actually friends, therefore you shouldn't be around him...

But if it's actually true that you need to stay away from men who want to have sex with you (and that's ALL men, except maybe relatives and gay men), that doesn't just mean you can't have male friends. It means you can't have a job with male coworkers, can't go to the store and interact with a male checkout clerk, etc.

In fact, if it's really true that men are always willing to have sex with women they know, then that presumably applies to your husband as well, which would mean the only reason he doesn't cheat on you a dozen times everyday is that the women he encounters don't give him the opportunity. So hopefully he's not actually using this theory as an argument.

[DechanDawa]

I allowed myself to become socially isolated, and as you know, to come back from it is so difficult. I can relate to you not wanting to become isolated again. As long as you feel you have proper boundaries I feel it is right to keep whatever friendships you want. Opposite sex friendships don't always lead to sexual interest. That seems to be a rather big generality. However, I also think keeping to some guidelines like not seeing your friend alone is probably a good idea. Perhaps you can explain to your h how lonely you were when you were socially isolated and you don't want to go back there. Also, could your h be asking (maybe subconsciously) for a little more attention?

Has this friend of yours become a confidant? That may be the issue. Your partner should be the confidant of your life. Sometimes it is easy to cross that boundary with an aquaintance. All the worse when that individual is of the opposite sex.

[Hairball]

My first thought about this thread was "doesn't he trust you"? My second thought is, he could be jealous that u are confiding in your f and not in him? He might want to be that Best friend.

[Talthybius]

Note: Maybe a moderator can merge this.

I also have troubles 'believing' in friendships between people that are attracted to each others sex.

I mean, if you are friends you are both attracted to each others personality. Is it really possible both of them are repulsed enough by the other person's looks to never considering it being more than just friendship?
Almost always, there is at least one person who wishes it was more.

If you have this opposite sex friend and suddenly you both become single, are you sure neither of you will consider it? And if not, why not? I understand one person is not attracted to the other. But apparently the other is, and the person not attracted keeps him/her around?

I don't mean to say it can never 'work' or that it shouldn't be done. But I find it hard to believe most of these 'just friends'-relationships are just that.

I can't say I have had good experiences with it myself. I tried to be friends with a girl I deeply loved. She kept me around, kept inviting me, she told me she couldn't see any romance between us and never suggested otherwise with her behavior, and I wasn't able to engage in romance either way (too young/naive/insecure/confused). And every so often, when she was single, she would hint at casual sex. Either to test me and my intentions, or because she was really interested in that, I don't know. This went on for years. I even had two 'dates' with her and her now husband. It was the three of us meeting, doing some activity, having dinner, and me staying over for the night.

My best friend thinks she is a bad person for having done to me what she did to me.

The only case I can really make for a male-female friendship is one where you have so much history together already, that it is a shame to give up on it. Two people growing up like siblings. Or a case where one is in love with the other, wanting more, but is strung along, and over time these feelings and pains erode and the situation is accepted as both have their own different romantic interest. Seems tricky. I guess you need to get to a point that it is clear the romantic option is gone because it was tried and it failed and both agree on this. So there's no point in trying again. And if you still respect each other and have some stuff in common, and maybe deep emotions shared, then maybe staying friends is worth it.

As for the woman in my case. After not seeing her for 6 years, I emailed her 6 months ago. I send her a Facebook message two months ago. I got no reply. The last contact we had was from her to me. It is 14 years in the past now, but for many years I have deeply desired to know how she experienced all this.

Also, the female stringing along the completely infatuated male for ego boost, I have heard some females describe it in another way. They call it 'friends you cannot trust', because you suspect they want more. I guess one can debate who is the victim in cases such as this. In that interpretation, in my specific case, I was the one to blame because I decided to try to become friends when deep in my heart I wanted more. She could not trust me. And I struggled so so hard to keep my feelings in check and to keep our friendship pure. I refused to engage her in banter about sex because I knew she wasn't interested in me romantically and I didn't want to ruin our friendship. But I guess in this interpretation, I was the one tricking her.

So to the OP, don't be so sure the other person is fine with being 'just friends' just because it appears that way.
When you get really close, because he becomes your male girlfriend, and you are hurt emotionally, you go to him, you get drunk together, you hug for comfort, he makes a move and you reciprocate because you feel weak/confused/need an ego boost, is he taking advantage of you? Or is it him taking what he wanted all along and you refused to give all that time?
When you wake up, will you regret it and blame him?

Bit of a hypothetical, but I have seen this come up here. And I guess it is a common theme.

I pride myself in being really strong. But I was deeply in love with the girl I described. I don't know what I would have done if one evening, I found her in my arms, crying, drunk, cursing her ex boyfriend, and suddenly kissing me. One reason I never drunk alcohol with her.

This may be why my friendship with the woman I described finally ended. Her husband must have wondered what was up with me and her friendship with me. They must have discussed it. And she must not have had a good answer. I doubt she would have told him "He is deeply in love with me. But he has little friends besides me and I like him. Yes, I find him physically attractive, but nothing ever happened between us, and never will." She must have made up some excuse and he must have called her out her ********. And I stopped being invited. That's how I imagine it happened, but of course I don't know. I might be totally wrong.

That said, the husband being jealous is not good. I mean, the questionable part is the moral aspect of the two 'just friends' people. Who is tricking and hurting who? Not the husband being cheated on, because he isn't. You aren't cheating on your husband by keeping attractive potential partners around. Until of course you do engage with them romantically.

I don't know if bring up his (former?) female friend up is a good idea. He might have been into her more than he was ever in to you.

That the man always wants to sleep with the woman, I'd call ******** on that, were it not that I am very different from most men. I mean, I proved the opposite. I refused to sleep with the woman I was deeply in love with and who rejected me as a romantic partner when apparently she did want to sleep with me, despite knowing I had feelings for her she never showed me she shared (though I can't be sure), or at least wanted me to believe she would (to boost my ego?).

So I'd like to call ******** on that, for the sake of all men who are similar to me, however low their percentage may be. I really find it hard to believe a man would stay friends with a woman just to get a shot to 'score'. They just must be deeply infatuated. Not saying the wouldn't jump at an opportunity for sex, but then it would be a means to an end, not the end itself.
I do get the feeling that in most cases it is not the female being in love with the male, and the male rejecting, but the other way around. But I have no empirical evidence for that and I feel the bias of my own experience. I also feel that a male wouldn't want to be friends with a female they do not find physically attractive enough (to sleep with), regardless of being in love or not. Everything the female does is nicer, smarter, more interesting and appealing if he finds her physically attractive, and her affection will feel warmer/more special. But I don't see how that means that the bottom line is that he just wants to put his **** in her.

There's more to masculine energy than just that. Maybe it means he will jump in front of her when a robber points a gun at her. I am not sure I would risk my life for any male friend, no matter how close I am to them.

This idea that a male stays friends with a female for years, to then have sex with her for one night, and to never talk again after that, that makes no sense to me.

[TishaBuv]

There are so many combinations of possibilities in feelings and relationships.

I'm think back to my experiences. There was I was infatuated/ him not so much, he was/I wasn't, we both were attracted but there were reasons not to act on it. The only combination I never had was neither were attracted and we were just platonic friends, so you may be right about men not being friends with women who they don't find attractive. Or sometimes the man is the bf or husband of one of my gf's, and that is why we are friends who are platonic.

Why didn't you have sex with the girl you had such infatuation for when she wanted it?

Yes, I agree that you are right to assume her husband put a stop to your friendship.

I'm not really sure what you are saying or asking aside from my comments on your post.

[DechanDawa]

I agree with Hairball. The threat might be that h feels you have emotional intimacy with someone other than him. Just a theory...

[DechanDawa]

Supposedly, Angie got angry because Brad was confiding in people at work, his work being making a movie. Yes, I am following Brangelina. Supposedly, she didn't like Brad talking to his work people about their personal life. Even if this was make up by the tabloids you can see where people's minds go about this kind of stuff.

This is especially true about internet relationships as well. It is vitally important that ones'spouse/partner be that confidant in our lives; that it is they we speak to about our feelings, thoughts, and difficulties. Turning to someone else to do so I believe is a form of daliance.

There are a few litmus tests here to consider:

- would you feel perfectly alright were the roles to be reversed?
- are there aquaintanceships your spouse has that you feel threatened by?
- do you talk to your friend about personal subjects?
- do you talk to your friend about your relationship difficulties?
- do you talk to your friend about things you wouldn't with your spouse?
- who do you wish to turn to first to talk to?
- have you ever been dissappointed at having a chat with your friend put off or canceled?

I am NOT assuming this is the case. I am instead trying to point out why your spouse might feel threatened. It may be that you need to take your husband along to a counseling session. Or at least you should mention this during your next one. The best thing you can do is discuss this and take his worries seriously.

Finally, if it is causing a problem then it IS a problem. Your spouse is the priority. Even if you feel nothing wrong has transpired you may just have to pull back on the friendship.

[Moogieotter]

Sorry you are struggling.

I am not sure I have specific advice, but I am a male person with numerous female friends who are strictly platonic. This is a very real and possible thing for many. Mrs moogieotter, my dear and precious wife, is aware of my relationships and does not have any challenges with my friendships.

I am happy to share more. Thanks and I hope our OP finds relief soon.

moogs

[DechanDawa]

When I was married having opposite sex friends usually turned out to be problematic unless it was within the firm boundaries of a work relationship. Since becoming single I have decided to not private message with men who are in a relationship or married, and it gives me peace of mind. I have enough drama in my life, thanks. I say this because invariably the men will start complaining about their partner or spouse, and it is very uncomfortable. Mostly I feel sorry for the women as I would not like a partner or spouse complaining about me behind my back. Keeping firmer boundaries is turning out to be the right thing to do for me.

Okay, wow thanks everyone I wasn't expecting so many replies - really appreciate your perspectives on this one. I can't address all the points (not much time) but will answer justafriend's questions:

Q - would you feel perfectly alright were the roles to be reversed?

A - Yes, he does not spend much time with friends but I don't have a problem with either his exes or any other women he knows. Admittedly he mostly socialises with men and even then not often.

Q - are there aquaintanceships your spouse has that you feel threatened by?

A - No. He has had a couple of guy friends I did not like but it was his choice to socialise with them. I like both his exes.

Q - do you talk to your friend about personal subjects?

A - mh is about as personal as it gets. We don't discuss sex, that is a boundary and neither do I discuss my marriage.

Q - do you talk to your friend about your relationship difficulties?

A - Never. This would be a big no no.

Q - do you talk to your friend about things you wouldn't with your spouse?

A - No.

Q - who do you wish to turn to first to talk to?

A- My h. I turn to him first about almost everything. I trust his opinion. I often share conversations I have had with friends including f.

Q - Have you ever been dissappointed at having a chat with your friend put off or canceled?

A - If any of my friends cancel or I have to I do feel disappointed, no more so for f than any other friend - I used to worry they would dump me (that happened a lot in my teens) but these days I feel secure they will be my friends even if I don't see them a while.

[~Christina]

I have male friends all straight if that really matters which I do not think it does.

My husband has NO issues about this.. He has several female friends.

We have mutual respect and love for each other, and we would not cheat regardless of who had friend xyz.

I am unable to wrap my head about " all men want sex from female friends "