[graystreet]

I have this friend I met on OkCupid on Christmas Day. Anyway, he isn't a boyfriend, though I speak to him over text every day, certainly more than any other friend/person in my life. We have met in person, and we get along very well. He is probably one of the nicest, most uncomplicated people I know. Which is refreshing, and is a great foil to my personality.

The thing is that W is both agoraphobic and pretty inexperienced with women. Though he's been married--and I haven't--I think she was probably only the second woman he'd ever dated. Here is where the problem lies: W and I sort of initially bonded over our mutual "crazy," which I know isn't the best thing to bond over. His crazy you just have to accept: he's not going to go outside of his comfort zone, and if you want to hang out, it's going to be at home. My crazy has more to do with abandonment issues, and once I'm comfortable and trust someone, fades away. But man oh man, is it hell on wheels until then.

W, once it came out in full force, was put off by my crazy, and I don't blame him. Lots of people are. One of things he said is that I "talk angry and then come back the next day and apologize" He told me my lack of trust is off-putting. He said that he knows he can't deal with that in a relationship, but that he is better with it in a friendship. And I am really ashamed of it, but sometimes I feel like I can't control my fear of people leaving. However, though he no longer wants to date, he's still the only guy in probably 7 years who has stuck around through the worst of it and still said, "I'm not going anywhere." He tells me that all the time. This is a problem, because the longer he sticks around, the more emotionally attached I get. It's weird because I don't think we'd be compatible, dating-wise, in the long run. For lots of reasons. (And, though he states he finds me attractive and thinks I'm pretty awesome, he has stated this as well.) It's like I want some weird hybrid of something between dating and friendship. Like, I don't want to sleep with him, but I don't want him to sleep with anyone else. Does that make sense?

TBH I'm not terribly worried about it at the moment, because he says, in 4 years of being on OkC, I'm only the second woman he's met He's not repulsive; actually the opposite. But it's hard when you don't actually GO anywhere. Or message anyone (he says I was a fluke; I was the first person he'd messaged in ages).

I don't think he understands the emotional attachment aspect of talking to a female every day for 3 1/2 months. I think he just thinks that he is behaving like a friend, because he's THAT inexperienced. And I have to say I don't want to stop him. We've discussed how I feel and he says if it's too hard for me then--though he says he'd be unhappy about it--we need to either end or curtail our friendship. We finally decided not to do either (and he said that had to be the last of the discussion about it, or he would have to be done).

He tells me I need to go with the flow, and I feel like I have. Last night, I cut off our text convo because I was feeling some kind of way. I said, "I feel like I want to pick a fight or something--I really don't, but I feel like if I kept talking, I probably would." He said, "I'm sure you could find someone to pick a fight with." I initially took it as I am just all too willing to argue. But I don't think it was meant that way at all; he has NEVER said anything intentionally hurtful. But in light of how he said he couldn't live with certain things in a dating relationship, I guess it stung pretty badly. I felt like I was doing incredibly well lately going with the flow, and it felt like oh...no, I guess I'm always just going to be the argumentative chick that he can't live with. I think the fact that it was said innocently and without malice hurts worse, because he said it not meaning to hurt me...that's just what he thinks.

Am I doing myself and him an injustice by keeping this friendship? I am probably making it sound like there is a huge emotional investment in nothing. There isn't, but it is nice to have someone who texts every day and says nice, encouraging things to you when you're having a crazy day at work. And vice versa, I'm sure (he works from home, obvs). And we have a lot of fun when we hang out. We care a lot about each other. The way I see it, I probably need to be better about going with the flow--I have always been awful at it. And if any friendship can help me learn this, it's probably going to be this one. I just don't want to delude myself or hurt him in the process.

[graystreet]

BTW, sorry this is so long. I just realized it when the mods finally posted it! Yikes!

[Moogieotter]

You both sound sweet and precious.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by Moogieotter

You both sound sweet and precious.

Thanks. I don't know if I am necessarily sweet, but I think I'm kind. I think I'm tenderhearted...maybe too much so.

[Bill3]

the longer he sticks around, the more emotionally attached I get.

The thing that worries me is that you are getting yourself attached to someone who seems to have made it crystal clear that he is not going to get attached to you.

We've discussed how I feel and he says if it's too hard for me then--though he says he'd be unhappy about it--we need to either end or curtail our friendship. We finally decided not to do either (and he said that had to be the last of the discussion about it, or he would have to be done).

He is not even willing to discuss attachment ever again, much less change in any way to reciprocate it.

[DechanDawa]

He is controlling you. Be brave and distance yourself. You deserve better.

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm not really sure if you're doing yourself a favor by keeping this friendship.. you seem still to attached to him. I know it's hard, but if you want to find new relationships, you need to move on, in some way or another. Easies said than done, I know

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

He is controlling you. Be brave and distance yourself. You deserve better.

I don't think he would really know how to do this or have any desire to do so, with anyone. Given an option between putting the mental effort into a relationship required to control someone and being alone, I'm pretty sure he'd rather just be alone. Any control would be because I let the situation control me, not because he exerts it.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by Bill3

The thing that worries me is that you are getting yourself attached to someone who seems to have made it crystal clear that he is not going to get attached to you.

He is not even willing to discuss attachment ever again, much less change in any way to reciprocate it.

What he's not willing to discuss ever again is my should I stay or should I go thing. I keep bringing it up, it goes in circles, he doesn't have anything new to say and he said hey, do you want to take some time to think about it? I said no, I'm good. So he was like, okay. I don't want to go through this same conversation again about if you're going to leave or not. I can't. If we have to do it again, I have to be done. And I think that's fair.

He's emotionally attached in his own right, but I don't think he sees it as such, which is part of the problem. What I don't think he gets is that emotional attachment and emotional intimacy is actually a thing. We're talking about a 36 year old who has literally had two girlfriends in his life.

I can't say I'm throwing myself into wanting to date him (as I said in my post). I find it hard, at 38, to want to date, period. It's hard on me when I know that I'm rubbish in relationships to want to continue to throw myself into them. I don't say that to whine or feel sorry for myself, it just is what it is. I think that both he and I get what we need from each other emotionally...I think everyone needs some emotional intimacy in their lives. I think that I get jealous when it comes to people's attention no matter who they are (he doesn't at all) and those kinds of traits in me may pose the problem. Otherwise...I guess when I think about it, I don't really see a problem.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by graystreet

I don't think he would really know how to do this or have any desire to do so, with anyone. Given an option between putting the mental effort into a relationship required to control someone and being alone, I'm pretty sure he'd rather just be alone. Any control would be because I let the situation control me, not because he exerts it.

"he said that would be the last of the discussion or he would be done"

That's controlling behavior and words, not to mention threatening type words. (Either or else.) Ultimatum stuff. Not the kind of stuff on which a friendship is built.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

"he said that would be the last of the discussion or he would be done"

That's controlling behavior and words, not to mention threatening type words. (Either or else.) Ultimatum stuff. Not the kind of stuff on which a friendship is built.

I see where you're coming from. However, that is the wording I used do describe a situation and conversation which essentially spanned a few weeks. It isn't fair for me to continue to tell someone I am leaving a friendship and then say oops, no, just kidding, I decided I'm back. That person has the right to say I don't want to keep doing the push-pull. To say you can have time to decide, but if you decide that you want to stay, then stay. If we continue to go in circles, for my own sake, I have to be done with it. It's emotional manipulation for me to keep leaving and coming back...wouldn't you want to draw that boundary? I probably would.

If there is one thing I know about this person 100% is that he is not controlling me. Not every man has malicious intent. Some actually are as nice as they come off at face value, even if the way I describe it doesn't make it seem that way. You are, however, entitled to your opinion, and I thank you for taking the time to give it.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by graystreet

I see where you're coming from. However, that is the wording I used do describe a situation and conversation which essentially spanned a few weeks. It isn't fair for me to continue to tell someone I am leaving a friendship and then say oops, no, just kidding, I decided I'm back. That person has the right to say I don't want to keep doing the push-pull. To say you can have time to decide, but if you decide that you want to stay, then stay. If we continue to go in circles, for my own sake, I have to be done with it. It's emotional manipulation for me to keep leaving and coming back...wouldn't you want to draw that boundary? I probably would.

If there is one thing I know about this person 100% is that he is not controlling me. Not every man has malicious intent. Some actually are as nice as they come off at face value, even if the way I describe it doesn't make it seem that way. You are, however, entitled to your opinion, and I thank you for taking the time to give it.

Well, it wasn't really about gender. That is about a man having malicious intent. I was not seeing it that way at all. I wasn't thinking of it as he was a controlling man.

I just thought the behavior sounded controlling.

I don't know. It sounds complicated, actually.

Because of this maybe people on here, myself included, are not understanding what is going on.

I probably should not have commented. Because really I don't fully understand your situation or what you want out of it. As a younger person I would not have spent that much effort on a platonic relationship because I was looking for romance. Now...probably the same, to be truthful. I don't have a lot of patience for complicated friendships. But if there was a chance of a future long-term thing...then yes, maybe I would put in the effort.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

Well, it wasn't really about gender. That is about a man having malicious intent. I was not seeing it that way at all. I wasn't thinking of it as he was a controlling man.

I just thought the behavior sounded controlling.

I don't know. It sounds complicated, actually.

Because of this maybe people on here, myself included, are not understanding what is going on.

I probably should not have commented. Because really I don't fully understand your situation or what you want out of it. As a younger person I would not have spent that much effort on a platonic relationship because I was looking for romance. Now...probably the same, to be truthful. I don't have a lot of patience for complicated friendships. But if there was a chance of a future long-term thing...then yes, maybe I would put in the effort.

I probably didn't explain as well as I should have because the post was already looooong. I hear what you're saying about complicated friendships. I tend to overcomplicate things....really, I think from his perspective it's that he takes dating very seriously, doesn't date unless he feels it will be a pretty permanent thing. I don't think he sees us doing well in the long run, and I get that. I know he cares about me, thinks I'm pretty awesome. So he feels like, hey, you want to hang out, cool. You don't, that is okay, I will respect that. There's no physicality involved, btw.

I am the kind of person who has very few but close friendships, and that's always how I've been. I mean, I've always known a ton of people, had a ton of acquaintances but it takes a bit for me to form close, meaningful bonds with people. So I guess when I do I tend to be okay if sometimes they are little complicated. A little bit, at least. If this person WERE being malicious, I'd be out. The rest of my few friendships are easy-peasy.

[DechanDawa]

Originally Posted by graystreet

I probably didn't explain as well as I should have because the post was already looooong. I hear what you're saying about complicated friendships. I tend to overcomplicate things....really, I think from his perspective it's that he takes dating very seriously, doesn't date unless he feels it will be a pretty permanent thing. I don't think he sees us doing well in the long run, and I get that. I know he cares about me, thinks I'm pretty awesome. So he feels like, hey, you want to hang out, cool. You don't, that is okay, I will respect that. There's no physicality involved, btw.

I am the kind of person who has very few but close friendships, and that's always how I've been. I mean, I've always known a ton of people, had a ton of acquaintances but it takes a bit for me to form close, meaningful bonds with people. So I guess when I do I tend to be okay if sometimes they are little complicated. A little bit, at least. If this person WERE being malicious, I'd be out. The rest of my few friendships are easy-peasy.

I am sorry. It was a long post. I also do long posts and only a handful of people can stay with me.

I was thinking I had a friendship that became very complicated. This guy and I were friends then he wanted to take it to another level. I didn't. We kept on as platonic friends. But then he would pressure me to get romantic. It was...complicated.

At one point he even moved to be closer to where I was living. I wasn't leading him on. It got very push pull....for years!

I really liked this person as a friend. He was unusual. I remember back then thinking some woman would be lucky to have him. But not me.

Eventually he found a woman years later. I was living with my boyfriend at the time. And he and his girlfriend visited us. It was strange because on some level I was actually a bit jealous. Happy for him. But jealous.

Maybe there was a bit of attraction deep down that I did not acknowledge because I knew we weren't right for one another.

The point is we really couldn't remain on a friend level and it wasn't going to a romantic level. So it was kind of a dead end.

It was very complicated. I didn't talk about it because...I probably never could have explained it properly.

Good luck. It is a meaningful connection for you on some level and you are probably growing as a result of it. So all connections are meaningful no matter the outcome. My "friend" used to send me beautiful little notes and postcards and I still have them. And I am a person who rarely saves things like that. Life is a mystery and people are mysterious.

[graystreet]

Originally Posted by DechanDawa

I am sorry. It was a long post. I also do long posts and only a handful of people can stay with me.

I was thinking I had a friendship that became very complicated. This guy and I were friends then he wanted to take it to another level. I didn't. We kept on as platonic friends. But then he would pressure me to get romantic. It was...complicated.

At one point he even moved to be closer to where I was living. I wasn't leading him on. It got very push pull....for years!

I really liked this person as a friend. He was unusual. I remember back then thinking some woman would be lucky to have him. But not me.

Eventually he found a woman years later. I was living with my boyfriend at the time. And he and his girlfriend visited us. It was strange because on some level I was actually a bit jealous. Happy for him. But jealous.

Maybe there was a bit of attraction deep down that I did not acknowledge because I knew we weren't right for one another.

The point is we really couldn't remain on a friend level and it wasn't going to a romantic level. So it was kind of a dead end.

It was very complicated. I didn't talk about it because...I probably never could have explained it properly.

Good luck. It is a meaningful connection for you on some level and you are probably growing as a result of it. So all connections are meaningful no matter the outcome. My "friend" used to send me beautiful little notes and postcards and I still have them. And I am a person who rarely saves things like that. Life is a mystery and people are mysterious.

Yes, I can relate to some of this

How I think it is helping me to grow is just by trusting another person. Who is male. I am not very good at that. He really is pretty much someone you can take at face-value. I am the kind of person who has a lot of trouble with abandonment (that is a huge part of my overall issue and why I'm on PC) and when he would take most of a day to reply, I would be out of this world anxious. But he works from home, every day, spends time with family, but even if it was 1145pm he would always, ALWAYS say "hello" by the end of the day. Always. I know it sounds really dumb, but for me, that was huge in helping me to trust that someone who said they weren't going anywhere actually wasn't going anywhere.

I guess when I initially posted I was looking for some kind of advice, but I think I slept on it and kind of worked it out in my head. Sometimes I just need to do that.