This was a scenario that my therapist brought up several months ago.

Imagine a 16 year old kid. He's a good kid, does well in school. On his 16th birthday, he gets his driver's license. And he asks his parents if he can get a car.

They tell him no, not right now, but we'll see. But they don't want to tell him, that cause they love him so much, they are planning on buying him a brand new car for his graduation, and they don't want to tell him because they want to surprise him with it.

(now I'm finishing the scenario)
But the kid doesn't know this. And he feels very angry and HURT that his parents said no.
He notices his friends' parents are buying them cars. He doesn't want anything fancy, like a sports car or anything.

But he feels so hurt and angry about it. Cause he was really looking forward to getting a car. That he says to himself, fine, I'll just take the bus and walk everywhere. I don't care any more. He starts even coming to hate anything to do with cars. And he even cuts up his driver's license and says screw it, I'll learn to become acclimated to using public transit for the rest of my life, cause not having a car really hurts that much. I want nothing to do with cars at all, and I'll stop caring about it.

So graduation day comes. He did well in school even. And he comes home and his parents surprise him with a brand new, nice car, all paid for, and hand him the keys and tell him they're proud of him.

But he never told them that he felt so HURT by what his parents told him 2 years before, that he cut up his driver's license and decided in his anger (cause he was so hurt, and he's stubborn) that he will never drive a car ever again.

His parents handing him the keys brought back all that hurt and anger, and he gives the keys back to his parents and tells them to just take it back, he doesn't want it any more. In fact, it hurt so much not having it before, that he stopped wanting it altogether so it wouldn't hurt any more.

So he refuses the car, and in his hurt (and stubbornness, but he can't seem to get passed the hurt), he decides to just take public transit the rest of his life.

That's how I feel about marriage, and that's the scenario my therapist brought up before. I just finished it was all.

[unaluna]

Yeah, too little too late. My parents thought that this was the right way to raise kids - completely demolish their hopes. Then "surprise" the kid by giving him some watered down version with strings attached.

Im sorry this happened in your marriage. If there are children now involved, they didnt ask for the situation. But if there are no children, sounds like the other person has big big issues, and i dont know if i could trust them.

[Nammu]

Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

@ unaluna; You're misunderstanding. The 16 yo kid was in my 20's and 30's when I really wanted to get married and looked and looked for her.

The feelings after graduation are how I feel now about it. (ignoring my failed marrisge from 9 years ago. I mean meeting and marrying the RIGHT person).

[LiteraryLark]

I think that 16 year old kid is young and dumb and extremely selfish.

[unaluna]

Youre right, i dont understand.

Originally Posted by Nammu

Sounds like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

I'll have to look that up, cause I never understood that expression. (I've always had trouble with abstract reasoning)

Originally Posted by LiteraryLark

I think that 16 year old kid is young and dumb and extremely selfish.

I definitely have struggled with that. But my point was, feeling so hurt by that before, I had to stop caring about it. To the point that I don't really want it any more. That I find it ironic that it would happen only after I finally stopped caring about it.

To the point that I would quite likely turn HER away now.

[Artchic528]

Just because you just passed your driving test and officially received a license to drive doesn't mean you automatically get a car from your parents. That's acting really entitled and spoiled.

Plus, I don't get how acting like you're entitled to something, then being overly embittered and stubborn when you don't get what you think you deserve right away, equates to a marriage that didn't work out...can you please explain a little better?

^ ^ It was an example that my therapist gave me, when talking to her about my feelings about marriage. It's symbolic.

The point was, waiting for something that could happen not right now, but perhaps down the road.

How I felt about it 10-20 years ago vs. now.

[LiteraryLark]

It's also extremely unrealistic. This whole scenario makes no sense. A 16 year old can't expect a shiny new car just because everyone else is getting one. You have to work hard for it, or communicate to your parents what you need to do to get a new car. And unlike a shiny new car, a marriage won't be there waiting for you when you feel like you deserve it. But, going with the car theme, here's what you need to do. You need to do your research, you need to take a look at all the offers, check under the hood and see what needs work and what is good to go, take it for a test drive--maybe there's blindspots that don't work for you or it doesnt' have the features you're looking for...test drive a few, maybe more, until you decide, "this one's for me", then once you have it, you got to put TLC into it, keep it oiled and gassed. Yeah....I'm really not digging this car scenario, because you can't compare a relationship with a car. It just doesn't work.

The idea behind it, was wanting it so much, but not able to get that now, but waiting for it to happen down the road.

But I get you. I was only thinking about it today, and it allowed me to explore some feelings.

Forget this thread. Maybe it was a poor example.

[LiteraryLark]

Don't forget the thread, just talk about the root of the problem such as wanting marriage so badly and having to wait, and I'm sure that will give us more to work with than to comment on the scenario.

[Nammu]

Originally Posted by _nullandvoid_

I'll have to look that up, cause I never understood that expression. (I've always had trouble with abstract reasoning)

It means a needless self destructive over reaction to a problem

Thanks google. (and Nammu)

"Cutting off the nose to spite the face" is an expression to describe a needlessly self-destructive over-reaction to a problem: "Don't cut off your nose to spite your face" is a warning against acting out of pique, or against pursuing revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.

I get the jist of it.

@Literary Lark; I dealt with a lot of anger and hurt over that in the past.
When I was 22, I was invited to a good friend's wedding and I didn't go. At the time I felt like "it was just another couple getting married", and it hurt, cause I wasn't.

Despite all of my fears and insecurities, I still have felt anger at times at the thought of waiting. That I have wasted so much time. I'm 41 now. I'm not getting any younger.

The thought of meeting someone at 50 or older. It hurts, and angers me still. I feel like it's pointless.

I even felt angry toward my 'future wife' for not coming into my life sooner. Like, "where were you when I wanted you so much before and really hurt without you?". Not that it was or would be her fault. Cause it's not.

But I thought, how ironic that that is exactly what would happen. Finally meet 'the one' and two days later die of a heart attack or something.

I wanted to meet someone when I was young and grow old with her. Not like what I heard on the radio once of a man who was so happy cause he finally met the woman of his dreams and was getting married - at 56 - and said he thought it would never happen to him.

I feel the same way. But angry in my hurt. That if I ever met her, that I'd probably just turn her away cause by this point I'm dead to it. It hurt too much before and I couldn't stand it any more.

And feeling like, I kind of deserve that any way. Deserve not to have her. So in that scenario, out of anger and that hurt, I'd just give the keys back.

I'm still dealing with this.

Originally Posted by _nullandvoid_

The idea behind it, was wanting it so much, but not able to get that now, but waiting for it to happen down the road.

But I get you. I was only thinking about it today, and it allowed me to explore some feelings.

Forget this thread. Maybe it was a poor example.

It sounds like you're clinging to how you feel about your past failed marriage, to justify why you will reject emotional and physical intimacy with someone new, because you may feel afraid that they won't accept you for who you are.

"Don't cut off your nose to spite your face," means; don't reject dating others just because of what happened to you in the past. They are not your ex-wife. And, you transitioned genders, so you are in brand new territory now that may seem overwhelming at times.

It's good to explore past feelings if you are trying to process them so that you can let them go. Don't dwell on the past. That's not healthy.

You can't change your past. No one can change it for you.

[LiteraryLark]

My question is, have you been searching all this time? Have you dated at all? Been in relationships since then?

[divine1966]

So you want to get married now but your therapist says you should wait? Or you refused to wait before and married whoever just to be married? Yeah people often do things to get instant gratification refusing to wait

[seesaw]

Null, I completely understood your metaphor and how it related to how you feel about marriage. I went through the same thing. I felt like it was something I could never have or would never be worthy of, so I convinced myself I didn't want. Same with having kids and a family. I was convinced I would never be able to have those things, so I convinced myself that I didn't want them.

I think that's the emotional journey you're talking about being on. Regardless of how well the kid and the car metaphor worked out.

The only thing I can say to overcome this false belief that you don't want it or need it is to simply admit that you, in fact, do want it.

I only just recently admitted it to myself when I realized that the thing I daydream about the most is meeting a kind man that I fall in love with and who loves me back and we get married and have kids. All my life I would never admit to having that kind of fantasy. And what kind of fantasy is that anyways? It's so basic. But for me it seemed like this huge luxury that I could never afford or be worthy of. To me it was more reasonable to expect that I would be CEO of a company and make a 6 figure salary than ever be worthy of someone's love. Or that someone would care about me that much that they would want to make a baby with me.

So I get exactly what you've been through.

Seesaw

[LiteraryLark]

Why wouldn't you want to get married now? My high school teacher had her first kid when she had grey hair!

Plus, marriage isn't something you can control the timing for, no matter what you do. It either happens or it doesn't.

I feel sick with depression and this discussion, but I will continue.

@cielpur; I was transgendered, and as a result I have breasts and no testes, cause I had them removed as preparation for sex reassignment surgery.

As a result, my sex drive is dead. I still miss it on occasion, but it's so infrequent and more of a passing thought than anything.

But, sex is something I feel very uncomfortable with. Take away the desire and all that's left are my insecurities about it. I'll be real, I am very small (and feel inadequate) and I am so uncomfortable with any kind of intimacy. Emotional or physical. I would need a woman that can accept that I feel so repulsed by sex and emotional intimacy.

I don't know why I feel this way now. I feel like I'm stuck on my feelings from the past, even if they aren't necessarily relevant now.

TBH, I feel stuck between feeling some times like it would be nice to have someone, to feeling more okay with staying alone.

I was a terrible boyfriend when I dated (it's been 20 years). I was extremely selfish and self-centered and incapable of loving anyone. I was controlling and manipulative and always put myself first.

And yet I still dreamed of finding the one. The perfect love that would never leave. It was just a fantasy, cause real relationships have problems and are a lot of work.

And I'm not really sure I have the emotional endurance for that.

I don't feel good enough. Just like I wasn't good enough for my ex gf's parents.

I haven't dated in 20 years, with the exception of finding my wife on a dating site - and only marrying her cause I felt like I had no other options and didn't want to be alone for the rest of my life. Even though we were only together a couple of months cause it was a huge mistake.

I haven't dated since. I went out with a coworker a couple times last year, with the understanding that it was only as friends, it still allowed me to explore my own insecurities and feelings.

I was so nervous and shaking the whole time, I could barely tolerate it enough to eat my dinner and couldn't make eye contact with her. I kept reassuring myself the entire time that we were just friends, but after 30 min I had to leave cause I couldn't stand it any more.

And I felt SO relieved after I left, and I really felt like I don't want to have to go through that again. It was SO unpleasant for me. And I realized then that I don't want to date or ever have to go through that again. NO THANK YOU.

So I feel like, I'd rather just live with the loneliness. I get along best on my own anyway.

I just still feel hurt some times over how things have turned out, though. And some times it would still be nice to meet her. I just see too many cons with it. So I don't know.

It's totally normally to reminisce about the past when you're feeling lonely and vulnerable. Who doesn't do that? I've done that.

If you know that you aren't comfortable with being emotionally intimate with another person since your transition, that's totally fine. You don't have to "live with loneliness" as your only choice.

Instead of dating and marriage, do you have other interests that can serve as a good outlet for you? Drawing? Photography? Sports??? If you have other interests, try to pursue those to the fullest, because it will allow you to feel whole again, and will put people in your path for you to befriend if you feel a connection to them.

I know as a transgendered person, you lived an entirely different life, because you were an entirely different person. Well, you're not that same person anymore, are you? You don't have to be.

There are so many transgendered people with YouTube channels, who may serve as inspiration for you. Have you heard of this person? I stumbled on her YouTube channel and think she's very insightful. But if she doesn't jibe with you, maybe search for others who you can relate to and maybe even communicate with for advice or support. Do you have support for your transition? Do your family or friends support you?

I'm not transitioning any more.

I have very limited hobbies and interests, but I agree and have said here before, that hobbies do help.

Thank you for your replies. I'm not really sure why I started this thread, except to get thoughts out. This is on my mind a lot.

But to answer your one point, I find just having friends (and places like this) more fulfilling than having a 'relationship'.

[mugwort2]

Mixed feelings. I think I can see why the 16 y.o was hurt, disappointed. OTOH his parents gave him a new car for his graduation. Figure his mom&dad is pretty well off. I mean a new vs used car. I too think its cutting off his nose to spite his face in refusing the car. I might be able to see if its a car model he didn't like.
As for me I don't drive so I felt disturbed by your scenario. OTOH I'll never get any parking or moving violations.