My relationship with my ex isn't typical...

I have a follow up question. I hope you guys are still reading this.

Is it fair of me to say that, like all of you, the people in her circle that are talking with her about being unhealthy etc... are only getting her influenced words, instead of the reality of the situation? Do you think that me sitting in a therapy session with her therapist might change the viewpoint of the therapist?

Also, I have a 25 minute audio clip from our conversation the other night that was pretty revealing, but I don't think posting it here would be very couth.

The relationship is between you and her. The alleged viewpoint of her therapist doesn’t matter. I could give you a compelling argument pro or con to the situation, so what?

Now, if you are beginning to think your gf may be making great points, and your situation truly is not healthy, and want to rethink the holiday and dinner thing, that’s another story.

Also, this dilemma is backing you into a corner as Thanksgiving is coming up. Is it going to be her or them? Can you convince her to come along? Is she forcing you to choose?

How about giving her an engagement ring before the holiday to make her feel secure???

That’s humor just to clarify. Honestly, if you are feeling you need to tape a conversation, it’s never a good sign.

I didn't NEED to. I wanted to. I knew she was saying things that indicated the insecurities which she denies heavily.

Great points? No. Am I willing to observe potential compromises? yes.

One other piece that was major for me. She has a tendency to talk AT me, not to me. She will say things like "the relationship you have with your EW is inappropriate" instead of "the relationship you have with EW makes me uncomfortable, could we talk about it?" Yeah, I know, arguing semantics, but no one likes to be talked AT. And that is certainly not proper communication.

What’s so inappropriate about it? Who is it hurting?

My question exactly.

Married couples separate/divorce for all manner of reasons, but it isn't often due to hate. Your girlfriend seems to be qualifying your relationship with your ex wife based on her own experiences with her ex husband.

You have a history with you ex wife that cannot be erased, you are still raising children together, and both seem to be making a good job of this. Your current partner needs to take a step back and appreciate that it isn't a competition, you are with her not your ex.

The Thanksgiving dinner is a no brainer....we congregate with family and friends to give thanks. Whether your girlfriend agrees or not, your ex wife is both a friend & family. Thanksgiving also isn't a competition.

I would be surprised if the therapist flatly told gf “That’s unhealthy.” Good therapists don’t typically give firm answers, they help clients figure out their own answers. Here, at a minimum, the therapist must realize that there are two sides to the story.

If you were to see her therapist, which I doubt will happen, the therapist would not take a position absolutely contrary to hers. If that happened it would be the end of gf’s trust in the T.

Have you discussed your potential compromises with gf? What does she say?

This deserves a high five and is EXACTLY my thoughts. Thank you.

Not yet. I think that conversation is best had in front of a mediator. Most likely a therapist. I want to find a third party that isn't my therapist nor her therapist.

It seems to me that yourself and your former spouse are putting the needs of the children first... high five for the both of you... children suffer as well and you're both mitigating the trauma. As others have said... your girlfriend is playing a power game, and she obviously has insecurities which she refuses to communicate. I agree that her circle of friends is more than likely getting a colourized version of the situation, as is her therapist.
Re: therapist... if the therapist refuses to interview you, either in party or alone, perhaps the therapist is seeking to keep the girlfriend from straightening her hash out. my two shekels at any rate

Kick her to the curb. What is so special about her that you couldnt find someplace else, that you have to put up with this b.s.? Because after this, its just going to be some other nonsense. She will NOT let you be there for your youngest for the next ten years, this is just the first step. Let her find someone who is free like her.

Hmm, this is a much different viewpoint.

Why would a therapist do this?

I have a lot of sympathy for this perspective.

GF is being completely stubborn, uncooperative, unreasonable, and unhelpful. She wants to trash something that you and your ex have painstakingly and beautifully built for the sake of your children.

You have lucky, lucky children right now.

From what you have told us, gf isn't even trying to see things from the perspective of you and your children. She just knows that you are wrong and she is right. Period. She feels free to tell you off.

Every holiday that comes along, every other weekend if you have that type of arrangement, whenever your ex or you pick up the kids, every phone call with your ex, every concert, teacher conference, sporting event, etc. there is going to be tension and/or arguments because of gf's inability and unwillingness to trust, because of her unwillingness to join the family rather than trash it.

And of course she is going to be upset every time you dare to cook dinner for your kids.

Is that how you want to live?

I was never cute enough to be this bossy, so sometimes i have no patience with people who are!

Seriously, i dont think the point is to get her to mediate her position. I want to know how she sees the future - what would her ideal situation be? You have little to no contact with your kids? Its all about her?

Unaluna, lol!

Your gf is not playing it smart. If she just went along with your way of going about this, she’d see that your ex is not a threat, she’d bond with your kids and even your ex, she’d find her place in the family, plus things will change and vary on their own over time not making her the bad guy, she’d come off looking great have you, your kids, the whole shebang.

I agree it won’t stop with just this. She’s made this too great an issue. I don’t even think you should bring her to your Thanksgiving dinner now because there will be too much tension and may be a scene. I’d give her the speech about how this has made you too stressed out and you just want to get the dinner behind you and not argue about it with her anymore. Then she’ll probably break up with you. I’m sorry.

So, update.

Yesterday, I made myself available to attend her therapy with her counselor.

It went REALLY well, and we made some great progress. Her therapist confirmed my insecurity feelings, but also talked with her about addressing the issues one at a time. (and her therapist also confirmed that she agreed she had only seen ONE side of the coin, and was glad to hear my side)

In the past I had put my ex wife first. GF and I have been on and off, and there was a respect level missing. That is my work in progress. So that fear and insecurity that she has is founded.

We worked through it, and for the first time, we left therapy without being mad at each other. She's actually considering attending thanksgiving with me. We have another appt next Wednesday.

Please continue the discussion here tho, and I will continue the updates.

Five years is a long time of on and off.

What are your feelings for her?

What sort of relationship/future do you have in mind with her?

Oh I 100% love her and want to spend the rest of my life with her.

5 years were full of drama from our extended families. The first two with my ex wife weren't easy, and the GF family and ex husband are a crap show..... So I got involved in the drama of it all, and kept leaving. So I take a large bear of the responsibility for that off and on.

In some cases (of which I have direct knowledge) a couple of particular therapists have encouraged inappropriate responses to particular situations, and have not addresses underlying mh issues. In short, keeping a patient off balance to continue to have a revenue stream. One person I know, directly challenged their therapist in regards to a mode of treatment, asking the why of a particular direction treatment and their use of leading questioning tactics.
Said therapist became very combative, declaring that they were the one with the diploma.
The long and the short of it, therapists are only human, fallible, and have as varied motivations as any other person, be it a genuine want to help others to heal, or to just simply have a revenue stream to facilitate car payments.

——-eve, you are very young and one of my favorites on the forum. These situations are immensely complex, like a 3 or maybe a 10 ring circus.
Do you actually think you would want to be face to face w your sweethearts ex on emotionally loaded occasions like holidays. Good intentions are great but how would that really feel? Maybe like the ex is making an awful lot of decisions that effect your life. The line has to be drawn somewhere , maybe not here but somewhere. I hope you never experience a situation like this. Very complicated.

Aw thanks. I’m really not young. I’m 48. But yes, I agree that it would be very uncomfortable. But it doesn’t have to be. Thing is, she needs to think from the kids’ perspective and what’s best for them. When you get involved with someone who’s divorced with children, one must know and accept that the kids always come first. And one must accept and deal with the ex wife. That’s always the situation. So the person has to be secure enough in themselves and make some compromises if they truly love the person.

It sounds like they made positive progress in therapy, however, and as though things may be turning around.

My concern was she was initially being too rigid with her ideology of how relations with ex’s should be. If she wants this relationship to work, she’s going to have to bend and put her own wishes on the back seat for the family’s sake. She needs to be a grown up about it. Dealing with an ex wife on a few occasions isn’t that horrible if you’re secure in your love for each other. I think it’s extremely immature and petty to demand complete separation. It’s like come on, grow up and be an adult. So respectfully, I disagree with you there.

golden_eve:

Your first paragraph is pretty much what I was thinking. I tend to think that the two people are simply not compatible. Personally, I would not want to deal with a partner's ex and kids, so I never got involved with someone who had kids when I was dating. I recognized that it would reduce the dating pool, but it was a dealbreaker for me.


She either needs to accept that your ex and kids will be part of your life and that you and your ex are making the children a priority (as it should be), or look for someone else that doesn't have kids. And, the OP will probably be better off with someone that is prepared to accept the situation and work to relate with the children and the ex.

I have a friend that married a guy with three kids by several different women and another on the way. They are divorcing in large part because she couldn't deal with the kids and exes.

Yeah, for some it is a dealbreaker, and possibly for many people.

And I agree with you, though the OP says he wants to be with this woman for the rest of his life, so there's that important piece too. Since that's the case, I hope they can work it out.

Another short update.

Everything seems to be moving along swimmingly. I stopped the conversations about the EW, and just yesterday she made the comment about finding somethings to bring to thanksgiving, like she is seriously considering doing it. In five years, it's the first time I've seen her really open to compromise. I didn't make a big deal about it, just kind of let it go. We have had our issues, but we are slowly working through them.

I truly appreciate everyone here sharing their opinions and helping me through this. We have one more round of therapy before Thanksgiving (this wednesday). So we shall see how that one goes.