[TheNightWhistle]

My father and I have always had a tense relationship. He always put me down growing up, and would get angry at me often. He never really seemed to understand me or even "like" me. When I was a teenager, I came out of the closet and it only got worse. He's not abusive towards me or anything like that but he never laughs when he's with me, he complains about his job, he criticizes me, and gets very angry at me for something as simple as changing the radio station in the car. I don't know how to connect with him, and I'm worried that we're never going to have a good relationship. Does anybody have similar experiences or advice on how to have a better relationship with him?

[sarahsweets]

Do you think it can get better?

[TheNightWhistle]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

Do you think it can get better?

Probably not. I mean, he shows that he cares in non-verbal ways. He offers me money, offers to drive me places and stuff like that but I just wish we connected more.

[Fuzzybear]

I don’t really have advice but I can relate to having a very cold and detached father.

I was wondering if he may have an undiagnosed mental health disorder (?)

[TheNightWhistle]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

I don’t really have advice but I can relate to having a very cold and detached father.

I was wondering if he may have an undiagnosed mental health disorder (?)

He's obviously depressed. It's not diagnosed but we can see it. He's whipped by my mother, doesn't have any real friends, is extremely shy at family parties, hates his job, and hasn't had sex in god knows how long. I feel like a lot of his anger towards me is just a projection of his hatred for himself. The question is, why only me? He's always treated my sister and mother like gold.

[Rose76]

You seem to have quite a bit of compassion for your father, despite how miserable he acts toward you. That indicates emotional maturity on your part. So I'ld say you are already more than half-way toward having as good a relationship as it may be possible to have with this man. Maybe you could build on that by asking your dad to talk a bit about how he feels about some of the stresses you've described. It sounds like he could use a friend, and it's never occurred to him that you might potentially be the best friend he will ever have. I guess that amounts to some role reversal, but you may have to be "the adult in the room" when your father and you are alone. I'm sorry you have an emotionally needy parent to tend to right when you are at a stage of life when your father should be mentoring you. Sadly, he just doesn't have that to offer.

My father was emotionally needy and often distant, though not as extreme a case as your dad. I think there was more mutuality in my situation. It sounds kind of one-sided in your situation, which is unfortunate for you. But it can make you a stronger person to have to make your way forward without the support a well-adjusted father would provide.

Why you got to be the target of your father's frustrations, instead of your sister, is hard to say. But there are reasons. I don't believe human behavior is ever just random. In years to come you may gain more insight.

I'ld caution you against letting your father overly burden you emotionally. Needy people can do that. You could overly invest in trying to have a good relationship, just to end up drained and perpetually frustrated. I respect that you see reasons for your dad's unhappiness. But his life is the product of his decisions. He probably won't change his thinking and will probably always have a somewhat sad existence. That's on him. It's not your job to "fix" him. I would encourage you to invest in relationships with other people, who can reciprocate in a healthy fashion.

In short, you probably never will have "a good relationship" with your father. I'ld set the bar lower and shoot for one that is reasonably amicable. You can't keep worrying about it. It is what it is. The failure is his not yours. Don't hold yourself overly responsible.

[downandlonely]

It sounds like you care about him and are doing everything you can to make the relationship good. I'm sorry he isn't investing as much into it as you are.

Not sure why he treats you differently. Maybe he's uncomfortable that you're gay? Just a thought. Some older people don't know how to react to news that their child is gay.

[TheNightWhistle]

In short, you probably never will have "a good relationship" with your father. I'ld set the bar lower and shoot for one that is reasonably amicable. You can't keep worrying about it. It is what it is. The failure is his not yours. Don't hold yourself overly responsible.[/QUOTE]

Thank you for your kind and realistic words. I don't think it will ever be a flourishing father-son relationship either. I've thought about it a lot, and I think the reason why he chose me as his target rather than my sister is because he saw how terrible I was at sports growing up, or how I acted effeminate, and he probably saw me as a failure because of that, and subsequently saw himself as a failure to parent me correctly. In his mind a man should act a certain way, and I think that I embarrass him to a certain extent. Keep in mind, I'm not a failure. I already have a professional job and am working towards getting a bachelor's degree at the same time, but the fact that my humor and general personality is different than his is what turns him off of me.

[TheNightWhistle]

Originally Posted by downandlonely

It sounds like you care about him and are doing everything you can to make the relationship good. I'm sorry he isn't investing as much into it as you are.

Not sure why he treats you differently. Maybe he's uncomfortable that you're gay? Just a thought. Some older people don't know how to react to news that their child is gay.

It's been 11 years since I came out lol

[Rose76]

It's good to hear you are laying down what sounds like a solid foundation for a life. As you gain fuller independence, you can have more control of what you will tolerate from him. And you do have a right to expect at least civil behavior from him. (Getting back to you sometimes having to be the adult.) You not fulfilling his vision of how a son of his was "supposed" to turn out does not give him licence to act like a b@$ฯ€rd. Changing the radio station in his car might be a misdemeanor, but it's not a felony. It may very well have inconvenienced him for 20 seconds, but that's not something to get all hostile about. It would not be wrong to say, "Sorry I disturbed your radio setting, and I won't do it again, but let's keep a sense of proportion here. This does not warrant you getting so upset. Let's be fair." As you get older and eventually are emancipated from him, this kind of response might work better. Still, you can start now.

My father came home one night with a few too many drinks taken and was acting obnoxiously belligerent to my mother and to me. It happened to be my birthday, which he clearly had forgotten. When he wouldn't settle down or just go to bed, I finally spoke up. I said, "This happens to be my birthday, and you don't have to cap off my evening so unpleasantly. I don't deserve this." Well, the next day he actually apologized, which flabbergasted me. He seemed to feel genuinely guilty. (Extremely rare for him.) I think what worked was my taking an attitude of: "I expect better from you." I did, and I asserted that with confidence and a touch of indignation. (Not sure where I got that from in the moment.)

I knew my father loved me, as you seem to trust your dad does as well. So I figured he wouldn't really want to come across as a jerk. But he was being an *****, and needed to be reminded that it's not okay. I'ld been calm, but firm.

As you probably realize, when your dad got all ticked over the radio, it probably wasn't about the radio. He felt like venting some spleen, and the radio was just a handy excuse to do so. I don't know your dad, but you might jolt him out of knee-jerk nastiness, by calling him on it, once in a while . . . as in, "So what's really bothering you today, Dad? I don't think you're this discombobulated just over the radio. Anything I can do to help you with anything?" That kind of a response, delivered in a calm, respectful, matter-of-fact way, might just stun him out of his habitual mindset. Make yourself a bit unpredictable in how you react. Surprise him. I think a lot of family dysfunctionality thrives on members behaving habitually, rather than deliberatively. People get used to reciting lines from a dysfunctional script. When you refuse to be scripted and come out with a remark that surprises others, you interrupt the flow of dysfuntionality. You throw people off. Suddenly, the person who's mindlessly going off at you has to take a breath and think.

Your dad is somewhat enslaved by his own automatic thought processes. He doesn't realize how many things in life are optional. "No, things are supposed to be this way and not that way. We have to conform to how things are supposed to be." So he lives in a mental straight-jacket. My father is passed away now. I wish I knew 15 years ago, somethings I understand now. What if ??? - when my father said something denigrating to me - I had just smiled and said, "Yeah, and I love you too." It would have blown his mind. Once he told me I was basically not a good person. I wish I had had the imagination, back then, to have said, "Now, Pop, I just don't believe you really mean that." These kind of frustrated men actually are inclined to say a lot of things they don't really mean. In the moment, they think they do. But you don't have to accept that. You might be the one person in the world who could liberate your father from the mental prison he inhabits by challenging this grim version of reality that he thinks he's "supposed" to believe in, which isn't even reality. Use your imagination to awaken his.

[TheNightWhistle]

Thank you for the lengthy reply, I appreciate you trying to help me. I actually have tried saying that he's getting mad for no reason. Every time I try that, he shuts down and says "fine, I'll just shut up" or something along those lines. I admit, I haven't offered him help or to listen because he doesn't believe in men talking about their feelings with each other. It would be uncomfortable for both of us. I could give it a try though.

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this, TheNightWhistle I completely agree with what all the others have already wisely said better than I ever could. You've been given lots of great advice on this thread! I'd suggest to follow it you can and want! I completely agree with what Rose76 has already wonderfully said in her lenghty posts! It's admirable that you want to build a better relationship with your dad, but remember that he has to put some effort into it! I'm so sorry he's feeling depressed. Does he see a therapist? Maybe that could help. He could learn new ways to cope with his feelings. Either way, you can't "force him" to have a good relationship with him. I believe you need to find out whether or not he's truly interested in building a better relationship with you and working with you towards that goal! I'd suggest to talk to him about this and see how it goes from there. Maybe that could help. Make him understand how much this is important to you! Hopefully he'll listen to you and understand you! If he refuses, don't beat yourself over it. It's not your fault! From what you wrote it seems like you're trying to do your best to build a better relationship with and talk to him! That's wonderful! You're a strong, wonderful person. Like I've said, just try to do your best. That's all you can do after all! Perhaps you may start from talking about your hobbies. Perhaps that may be a good way to start a conversation with him if you haven't alread! Please give it a try! You've got nothing to lose! I hope your father will be able to work on himself as well! I feel like that's really important if h wants things to improve! Like all the other people on this thread have already wisely said, though, that's on him, not on you! I hope things will get better soon for both of you! Please keep us updated and let us know how it goes! I'm sure things will get better if he will put the hard work into ti! Sending many hugs to you, TheNightWhistle! Keep fighting! You're a strong, wonderful person! Please remember that!

[Rose76]

Wow, he really is a sulker. (So was my dad.) Someone rebuffed him a lot when he was a child. That quote of his you just gave is really him talking to someone other than you. Maybe one of his parents was always telling him to stuff it. That's who he's really talking to.

Don't buy into "his" beliefs. Has he ever had a pet? I think he might benefit from adopting a puppy. His attitude sure is dreary.

[Open Eyes]

I came out of the closet and it only got worse. He's not abusive towards me or anything like that but he never laughs when he's with me, he complains about his job, he criticizes me, and gets very angry at me for something as simple as changing the radio station in the car.

It really sounds like your father doesn't even know how to connect with people. His responses you describe here seem to reflect he is struggling with a lot of things he can't control. You are taking this challenge personally too, it's important that you understand his actual inabilities instead of gravitating towards him not caring about YOU in particular. Often when a parent doesn't connect that means that parent never experienced a connection themselves so they genuinely don't KNOW how to connect with others.

My brother, who struggled with experiencing a bad relationship with our father often will say "When my father failed me what I am seeing is not only him but his father standing behind him". This is often the case when it comes to experiencing the kind of disconnect you are describing. My brother made a conscious effort to change this so his own sons did not experience this like he did.

[TheNightWhistle]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Wow, he really is a sulker. (So was my dad.) Someone rebuffed him a lot when he was a child. That quote of his you just gave is really him talking to someone other than you. Maybe one of his parents was always telling him to stuff it. That's who he's really talking to.

Don't buy into "his" beliefs. Has he ever had a pet? I think he might benefit from adopting a puppy. His attitude sure is dreary.

Yeah my grandpa always saw him as the loser kid. My uncle, who's his only brother, became a doctor, while my dad just got a regular job that my grandpa hooked him up with decades ago.

We've had 2 dogs and 2 cats, and he loves them. The only time I ever really see him happy is when he's playing with a dog.

[Rose76]

Poor guy. You have to wonder why a parent does to a son or daughter the very thing that was hurtfully done to them. I don't know the answer. Probably the reason varies from one family to another. My father was much harsher with his son than with his daughters. He used to say, "You don't raise a boy like you do a girl." The result was pretty sad for my brother.

What is most vital, Whistle, is that you not internalize the negativity that he unloads on you. That's why you have to limit what you'll tolerate from him. If you're living in his house, that can be quite a challenge. But it's not too soon to start, regardless of age or living arrangement. Every living being - man or beast - has a right to be accorded a certain dignity . . . even farm animals that we raise for food. It's not wrong to convey that expectation to him, when he is wantonly disrespectful. You sound balanced enough to recognize the difference between being parented and being gratuitously picked on. It's appropriate to call someone out, when they do the latter. Calmly is best.

I think your father is lucky to have a son who tries to understand him. I'm glad he's had the pets.

You do well to realize that there are reasons why he is as he is. I don't think any of us can ever truly know how much of another person's behavior is truly under that person's control. That way of looking at people underlies the old saying that "Only God can really judge." A modern version of that are some applications of a theory called radical, unconditional acceptance. Compassionately accepting your father's personhood, as possibly the best that he is capable of, does not mean standing still while he takes pot shots at you. No one has an obligation to passively accept abuse. You sound mature and fair enough to identify that when it's coming at you. Making mountains out of molehills is abusive. Your dad and you each have the right to be wrong once in a while . . . to make mistakes, and to be forgiven for them. That's different from engaging in a consistent pattern of devaluing another person, which I think characterizes your father's treatment of you.

I tried to understand my father, so I could put his behavior in perspective and not have my self-worth undermined by his moody inconsistency. He seemed to believe that no one could be forgiven for being wrong. His mother conveyed that to her children. I don't remember her. What I heard was that, once you were in her black book, you could never have your name removed from it. She never forgot a slight, or an offense . . . I was told. My father became perfectionistic trying to please her. He held himself to impossible standards that made him insecure. He was hugely defensive and could never accept that he was wrong. (Almost never. When he did, he had a bunch of self-justifying excuses.) He felt he had to choose between believing he was perfect, or believing he was garbage. That seems to be the choice his mother gave him. So he engaged in what psychiatrists call "splitting." He saw people as either angels or devils. If someone offended him, then they were evil and he wanted nothing ever to do with them ever again. My siblings and I grew up under a threat: "Offend me, and I will never forgive you." I did challenge him on that thinking, and I may have made a dent. But he was a hard case up to the bitter end. That's why I don't hold out a lot of hope that you will ever have that great of a relationship with him. But don't give up. Even if you can just make it better than what it has been, that is something.