[Nemo2]

Hello,

I'm 24 and I recently had an argument with my parents. This may seem mundane -- and the cause of the argument certainly was so, as you will see -- but I think it really highlights something I have been noticing more and more for the last five years or so, and I really question my responsibility for it. I hope my relation of the facts will not be too confusing.

To give you some context, I am my parents' only child, and there is not a single day I do not feel grateful towards them for all they provided me with, especially love and good education. I have to admit, however, that I am quite cold and introvert (it seems that I was a 'high potential' child), so that I do not particularly express that thankfulness. I have no problem being grateful and cheerful towards other people, though, because it would impolite not to (and God knows that was a long lesson for me to learn when I was a child, and a frustrating one for my parents to teach, all due to my shyness) -- but I have thought my parents know me so well that they know how much I care for them without me needing to say it again and again (besides, hugs say it all, I think). On the other hand, I freely criticize them when I think it is justified. On balance, my attitude could seem harsh to an external viewer, but I expect my parents to know the truth and be used to it.

So I have always been a good boy, albeit a shy one. As a child, I would say my parents always supported me without being too intrusive. My mom even insisted that I became more autonomous. I practically left home five years ago for college; I even spent two years studying abroad. My parents remained very supportive (both mentally and materially) during the whole process. I usually called them every day for 10-15 minutes, at their request, but also because I care a lot and worry about them. Now I'm back in the country, found a job and my own home (about 4 hours far from our family home), and I still call them everyday -- although I wish I could do it less frequently.

Yet, things have changed. I feel that my mother has become simultaneously more and more (over)protective and less and less open-minded. I now have to refrain to mention when I go out, otherwise she will insist that I message her when I'm back home. Same goes for common health issues: I have to listen to her (mostly irrelevant) advice religiously whenever I mention having caught a cold, even if I tell her I have seen a doctor (which she is not, by the way). Of course, she always has the best opinion on how I should do things and shares it even if I do not ask for it. She feels irritated when I comment on it negatively -- other people irritate her too. When she comes to my place, she cannot help bringing items I never asked for or even need. My parents even paid for my furniture -- to be fair, I was happy with them doing so, even though I would have liked purchasing it myself. Now there seems to be a tacit counterpart to that generosity which I discovered only too late: I should feel indebted and, to a certain extent, be as accomodating as if I were only 15. For instance, when my mom comes to my place, she behaves as if she were home, making endless suggestions, reorganizing things to suit her vision, etc. More importantly, she sees it as a 'pied-à-terre' where she can stay whenever she wants to visit the city. Granted, she came and stayed here only three times in the last six months, with my permission.

My father on the other hand perfectly understands my need for more autonomy and is well aware of my mother's tendency to be overprotective. Yet, he regularly offers to buy things for me. This is all very generous, but I really feel like a spoilt child (which I am), and I hate it. Sometimes I accept because I know it pleases my parents, although I think I should not. That being said, he underwent severe depression recently and attempted to commit suicide a few months ago (I had to call the police on him) for no tangible reason -- according to his therapist, he is now out of trouble. Moreover, he has always had a lot of health issues, and his family has a strong history of both physical and mental conditions. This is the reason why I prefer staying far from home, while staying in touch with my parents daily. I cannot help worrying for them.

Going on to the recent argument now, I have not seen my parents since Easter, and we agreed that they would come and see me this weekend (which starts on Thursday and is a national holiday here). That way, they would also be able to bring me some items I left at home. I am quite busy at work these times, and thus also quite tired. Therefore, when they announced that they would come on Wednesday evening, I refused and told them rather to come on Thursday morning, which would make no difference for them. My dad had no objection, but my mom instantly refused and started arguing that I was very rude and ungrateful, so that they would not come at all -- I reckoned she just had a bad day at work. So when I called them back the next day, I asked whether they were still OK coming on Thursday. My father told me they would come on Wednesday evening, so I had to explain again that this was not an option, but that they were welcome the next morning. I had to insist for him to utter something that vaguely resembled an agreement. As a side note, they have the keys to my appartment ; just imagine what would happen if I had a date that evening... My mom was harder to convince and bluntly asked whether they were disturbing me -- I sounded so, she said -- and offered just to drop my belongings and go somewhere else. When the call ended, I thought I finally had convinced them. Shortly thereafter, my dad called back with his angry voice and told me I had crossed the line, that they were fed up with me and not visiting me anymore; I had no time to reply before he hung up. I am not sure how to interpret this, as my father has a strong habit of switching mood unpredictably and becoming very angry towards me for no reason (psychiatrists said he is not bipolar, though). However I would have expected my mother to call back to calm down the situation, which she did not.

Clearly, I feel my parents have changed in what I believe is the wrong direction. At the same time, I wonder if it is not my fault for not being thankful enough and thus frustrating them. Do you have any idea about all this? I would really like to put a bit more distance between me and them and normalize our relationship, but I don't know if I should.

Thank you.

Hi Nemo2,

I believe you when you write that you are grateful for your parents and what they've given you. It's not 100% clear to me, however, how directly you have expressed that. If not very directly, make it extremely direct and firm, and yet also as warmly as possible. Warm doesn't have to be wishy-washy.

I do get the strong feeling it's time to establish some boundaries between yourself and them. Your firm decision for them to wait until a next morning to stay with you is a good first step. Why must they come the night before? Could you offer to pay for a night at a hotel for them? You pay. At this stage of your life, you can say "No" without major explanations. The sooner you hold firm on these things the better.

I can't help but assume your parents really need some therapy. You mentioned several issues they could/should discuss with a therapist. Both exhibit concerning behaviors based on what you wrote. I certainly can't guess what all of them are. Maybe you can't either.

As an only child, I imagine their desired cord to you is thick. It's time to thin it. They need to accept and deal with that and send some cords out to others, too. "I love you and appreciate you, but I'm an adult and need a bit more space." Such a tough thing to say and hear, but necessary quite often.

Originally Posted by Nemo2

Hello,

I'm 24 and I recently had an argument with my parents. This may seem mundane -- and the cause of the argument certainly was so, as you will see -- but I think it really highlights something I have been noticing more and more for the last five years or so, and I really question my responsibility for it. I hope my relation of the facts will not be too confusing.

To give you some context, I am my parents' only child, and there is not a single day I do not feel grateful towards them for all they provided me with, especially love and good education. I have to admit, however, that I am quite cold and introvert (it seems that I was a 'high potential' child), so that I do not particularly express that thankfulness. I have no problem being grateful and cheerful towards other people, though, because it would impolite not to (and God knows that was a long lesson for me to learn when I was a child, and a frustrating one for my parents to teach, all due to my shyness) -- but I have thought my parents know me so well that they know how much I care for them without me needing to say it again and again (besides, hugs say it all, I think). On the other hand, I freely criticize them when I think it is justified. On balance, my attitude could seem harsh to an external viewer, but I expect my parents to know the truth and be used to it.

So I have always been a good boy, albeit a shy one. As a child, I would say my parents always supported me without being too intrusive. My mom even insisted that I became more autonomous. I practically left home five years ago for college; I even spent two years studying abroad. My parents remained very supportive (both mentally and materially) during the whole process. I usually called them every day for 10-15 minutes, at their request, but also because I care a lot and worry about them. Now I'm back in the country, found a job and my own home (about 4 hours far from our family home), and I still call them everyday -- although I wish I could do it less frequently.

Yet, things have changed. I feel that my mother has become simultaneously more and more (over)protective and less and less open-minded. I now have to refrain to mention when I go out, otherwise she will insist that I message her when I'm back home. Same goes for common health issues: I have to listen to her (mostly irrelevant) advice religiously whenever I mention having caught a cold, even if I tell her I have seen a doctor (which she is not, by the way). Of course, she always has the best opinion on how I should do things and shares it even if I do not ask for it. She feels irritated when I comment on it negatively -- other people irritate her too. When she comes to my place, she cannot help bringing items I never asked for or even need. My parents even paid for my furniture -- to be fair, I was happy with them doing so, even though I would have liked purchasing it myself. Now there seems to be a tacit counterpart to that generosity which I discovered only too late: I should feel indebted and, to a certain extent, be as accomodating as if I were only 15. For instance, when my mom comes to my place, she behaves as if she were home, making endless suggestions, reorganizing things to suit her vision, etc. More importantly, she sees it as a 'pied-à-terre' where she can stay whenever she wants to visit the city. Granted, she came and stayed here only three times in the last six months, with my permission.

My father on the other hand perfectly understands my need for more autonomy and is well aware of my mother's tendency to be overprotective. Yet, he regularly offers to buy things for me. This is all very generous, but I really feel like a spoilt child (which I am), and I hate it. Sometimes I accept because I know it pleases my parents, although I think I should not. That being said, he underwent severe depression recently and attempted to commit suicide a few months ago (I had to call the police on him) for no tangible reason -- according to his therapist, he is now out of trouble. Moreover, he has always had a lot of health issues, and his family has a strong history of both physical and mental conditions. This is the reason why I prefer staying far from home, while staying in touch with my parents daily. I cannot help worrying for them.

Going on to the recent argument now, I have not seen my parents since Easter, and we agreed that they would come and see me this weekend (which starts on Thursday and is a national holiday here). That way, they would also be able to bring me some items I left at home. I am quite busy at work these times, and thus also quite tired. Therefore, when they announced that they would come on Wednesday evening, I refused and told them rather to come on Thursday morning, which would make no difference for them. My dad had no objection, but my mom instantly refused and started arguing that I was very rude and ungrateful, so that they would not come at all -- I reckoned she just had a bad day at work. So when I called them back the next day, I asked whether they were still OK coming on Thursday. My father told me they would come on Wednesday evening, so I had to explain again that this was not an option, but that they were welcome the next morning. I had to insist for him to utter something that vaguely resembled an agreement. As a side note, they have the keys to my appartment ; just imagine what would happen if I had a date that evening... My mom was harder to convince and bluntly asked whether they were disturbing me -- I sounded so, she said -- and offered just to drop my belongings and go somewhere else. When the call ended, I thought I finally had convinced them. Shortly thereafter, my dad called back with his angry voice and told me I had crossed the line, that they were fed up with me and not visiting me anymore; I had no time to reply before he hung up. I am not sure how to interpret this, as my father has a strong habit of switching mood unpredictably and becoming very angry towards me for no reason (psychiatrists said he is not bipolar, though). However I would have expected my mother to call back to calm down the situation, which she did not.

Clearly, I feel my parents have changed in what I believe is the wrong direction. At the same time, I wonder if it is not my fault for not being thankful enough and thus frustrating them. Do you have any idea about all this? I would really like to put a bit more distance between me and them and normalize our relationship, but I don't know if I should.

Thank you.

Hello Nemo2. So sorry you are struggling with these issues. Your stress and confusion are understandable. Thank you for sharing your age, that is very helpful. Your parents are indeed overstepping. You could say 'overprotective.'
I would say controlling and emotionally abusive. They both have a strong desire for control over you. This is unhealthy and no, it is not your fault. You are not causing it. They are parenting you this way due to their own emotional problems and this was likely how their parents raised them. So when you think that you need to be more grateful and go along with it, look at how your parents have turned out emotionally. Presumably, they went along with their parents' control and manipulation. And now they are unhealthy adults. You don't want that for yourself. And that is very wise. At age 24, it is natural and healthy for you to be building your independence.

One of the key issues here is money. It is impossible to establish independence from one's parents while simultaneously being financially dependent on them. I think you said they pay for your residence, among other things. Do I have that right? I don't think it's possible for you to set boundaries with your parents (essential for a healthy adult life) while also relying on them financially. Have you thought about a plan for financial independence? Does that seem possible to you? Even if not overnight but in the next few months or year....whereby you would pay everything in your life for yourself. 24 is a healthy age to be doing that.

When you asked them to come the next day instead, their response was a bid to manipulate and control you. It was such a simple request. They refused to honor it because they believe that they are in charge and you have no right to make your own decisions. That is not okay. You will need to essentially train them out of that delusion but you see what I mean about how it's hard to lay down the law for someone while living in a residence they pay for?

This was an important thought
I would really like to put a bit more distance between me and them and normalize our relationship, but I don't know if I should.

I think your initial instinct is sound here. You do need distance and clear boundaries from your parents. They are not going to suddenly evolve into different parents, you will need to draw the line (and hold your ground) for them over and over again. If they don't respect the lines you draw, then you pull back from contact until they do. But first, you need to financially separate yourself from them. Then you will have a better foundation for establishing emotional distance from them.

Another important piece is your continual worry about their mental health and needing to call the police for your father. I am so sorry that you have been going through that. It must be heart-wrenching for you. I want to point out that you are not actually responsible for the mental health of your parents. They are responsible for their own mental health. They are not dependent children (though they behave that way sometimes) and this is not your responsibility. I recommend discussing these issues with a therapist....not with your parents...just on your own. I think you would really benefit from professional support to draw some lines here and work toward your own independence. Healthy parents know that their role is to raise their children to adulthood and then leave them be to live their own lives. Your parents are not very healthy as I think you've already said yourself.

A few general tips for healthy boundaries...hope these help!

- don't accept gifts or money from them (as soon as you are able to be done with that). These are less about generosity and more about efforts to control you and make you feel indebted to them.
- take back the keys to your apartment, if they refuse to return them just change the locks...guests should only be able to come when invited, that includes parents
- you are an adult and free to come and go as you please, it is not appropriate for your mother to require messages from you...just stop complying...if she asks why, just say you are not going to do that
- if your father needs the police, he can call them himself or your mother can call for him....try to take a step back from their health issues as I think this is likely very harmful for your own health. Remember that you are not their doctor or psychologist, it is not your role to monitor their health. Plenty of professionals are available to help them as needed. if they do not want help, that is also their choice.
- when you draw a line (eg. I am not able to see you until Thursday) and they do not respect it, hold your ground. If they try to coerce you, simply say "This trip is not going to work. We can try again in the future when the timing works for me and for you."
- avoid getting into lengthy discussions with them about anything, just state your points and move on....if they don't stop, politely hang up the phone or leave the room.

I encourage you to bring your focus back to yourself. Your needs and wishes and goals and future. You are no longer their little boy no matter how badly they may desire that. Peace, hope, and a bright future to you You deserve it Nemo.

you say you are independent but are you?

you complain about the calls but YOU call them every day. skip a day every now and then. the world will not end. i promise you that. want more independence..start acting like it. you are old enough to go a few days without talking to your parents.

do they have a house key? change the locks. it is your apartment.

mom uses your apartment like it is her own.....well yea...you are her son ..you ask her to bring stuff to you. they stay with you. they bought the furniture. it is "their second home" you have done nothing to convince them it isn't..complaining here about it is a good vent but won't solve the issue.

you want them to sleep elsewhere..save your $$ and get them a hotel room..call it a treat for them. maybe they will get the message...probably not but it might help.

parents are angry now..you gave them options , which is good. and they didn't like that. it's ok. so now they are feeling the anger. again the world won't end. if they skip this visit..it's actually a good thing. you set boundaries and they got mad. it's like a kid who got told no. they will settle...don't cave...what ever you do. if you cave, you will never win another spat ever again.

wars are one by winning battles....one ti ny step at a time.

be the "independent" man you want to be...straighten the backbone and take a stand. mom will not die from a broken heart over this. dad is just reacting because mom is carrying on. but you have to start being the one who buys your own stuff, etc.

YOU have to be the one to take a firm stand here. it's time for you to grow up and stand strong. your parents have paid for everything. mom is being mom. the mom she has always been. if you don't tell her you are going out then you won't have to text her. does she really need to know?

[Nemo2]

In my original post I focused on what I find wrong, but otherwise I don't have to complain about my parents. It's just that this recent argument definitely convinced me that there is a basic problem that I should solve before it is too late.

Originally Posted by SilverTrees

I think you said they pay for your residence, among other things. Do I have that right? I don't think it's possible for you to set boundaries with your parents (essential for a healthy adult life) while also relying on them financially. Have you thought about a plan for financial independence? Does that seem possible to you? Even if not overnight but in the next few months or year....whereby you would pay everything in your life for yourself. 24 is a healthy age to be doing that.

Maybe I wasn't quite clear, but I am financially independent in that I pay for everything I need and/or want, including the rent. When I accept my parents' gifts, it is mostly not to disappoint them, or because I have no choice. Last time I went home, I had arranged to buy some used items off one of our family's friends. My dad litterally handed him the money before I could even reach my wallet.

Originally Posted by BirdDancer

I believe you when you write that you are grateful for your parents and what they've given you. It's not 100% clear to me, however, how directly you have expressed that. If not very directly, make it extremely direct and firm, and yet also as warmly as possible. Warm doesn't have to be wishy-washy.

I probably should insist more on that point indeed. That being said, they have known for a long time how much I love them and my stance on that has not changed.

Originally Posted by resurgam

you complain about the calls but YOU call them every day. skip a day every now and then. the world will not end. i promise you that. want more independence..start acting like it. you are old enough to go a few days without talking to your parents.

You're right. I tried that several times, but then they would always call at some point. Given my father's situation I didn't want to take any chance by not answering. But maybe things have changed recently. I'll give it another try.

Originally Posted by resurgam

mom uses your apartment like it is her own.....well yea...you are her son ..you ask her to bring stuff to you. they stay with you. they bought the furniture. it is "their second home" you have done nothing to convince them it isn't..complaining here about it is a good vent but won't solve the issue.

When I moved to this place I was technically still a student, so I would have needed my parents' support anyway (if only to get to rent the apartment). When my mom started behaving like she does, I clearly stated that she was not home. I must have sounded explicit enough because my father shares my views on my mother's attitude.

Originally Posted by resurgam

you want them to sleep elsewhere..save your $$ and get them a hotel room..call it a treat for them. maybe they will get the message...probably not but it might help.

I could but I'm fine with them staying here when it's also convenient for me. I could definitely offer them a hotel room but I'm pretty sure they would be even angrier.

Originally Posted by resurgam

they will settle...don't cave...what ever you do. if you cave, you will never win another spat ever again.

I hope so. What worries me is that they never behaved like stereotypical 'helicopter' parents when I was younger -- nor were their parents, on the contrary. They also got used to me helping them do things that they had always done fine without my help even though they are far from being old.

Originally Posted by resurgam

if you don't tell her you are going out then you won't have to text her. does she really need to know?

It's just small talk -- I don't specifically want my mom to know my whereabouts in real time, but I think I should be able to chat with my parents without lying to prevent them from worrying for no reason. As I mentioned, I try to avoid these topics.

Originally Posted by SilverTrees

I am so sorry that you have been going through that. It must be heart-wrenching for you. I want to point out that you are not actually responsible for the mental health of your parents. They are responsible for their own mental health.

For the record, I called the police because it was an emergency and my mother was completely overwhelmed. My father may be responsible for himself, but I cannot just leave him deal with it, can I?

Sorry if my post offended you Nemo. I was trying to help but I understand that each individual thinks and feels differently about such issues. I will leave you be and wish you and your parents peace and hope.

it will be hard, but don't answer the phone. they are grown ups..if it is an emergency on their side they can figure stuff out on their end. let them leave a message. they may think they will die if you don't call back right away but you know they won't. when you do call (in a few days) say, oh a bunch of us decided to visit ______. we chipped in for a room, or stayed at _______'s house, was having fun, just was so busy didn't have time to call. fudge it. tell them you are staying out late at night (but then don't be on facebook etc if they can see your posts)…

go out..create a life..even if it's something small but start doing stuff to break the cycle of you being hom e for their call. if you do that then it won't seem like such a thing. will they be unhappy? yea but they live to see another day. they are still going to call but you have to "train" them to space their calls out.

as for them staying over...it's hard to differentiate between what is convenient between what's good for you & them. how many times did you invite them over? 1, 5, 10? mom liked that. now you are getting older & maybe she is feeling like she is losing her sense of control and sense of worth. you were her life when you were young. now you are older and don't need them so much.

maybe say to them, look mom i have something i would like to do with you on june 21 can you help me? but i am really busy with work & stuff until then. i can't have you over until then. set limits. let her know she is welcome but within guidelines.

try that

[eskielover]

I was an only child too. I fought to be independent (probably my personality) from as early as I can remember. I honestly don't remember how or when I got the idea my parents wanted to be overprotective & keep me their little kid all my life.....but that is what I fought whether it was a real fight or not.

I actually lived at home till I got married because my parents didn't have money fir a college I could live away at & I didn't get any scholarships that would pay for it either. I went to a local college then university. Left home when I got married in 1975. There were always battles with them because I had my own sense of boundaries & they were ALWAYS crossing them but they did provide food & shelter while I was going to school.

I am not sure you will ever be free from your mothers behaviors even with boundaries in place. My mom always reacted to things in a very dysfunctional way. Even after my dad died & my (now ex-husband) had financial problems & the water heater in our house quit working. Not something you can live without. Lol....I called her & she agreed to pay for it......then said let me think about what kind you need. Didn't hear back for several days & in that time we went to the home improvement store & bought the minimum one we needed & scheduled to have it installed. Then she finally calls back & says "I've been thinking.....& this is the best one....." I graciously told her that we couldn't live without hot water that long & resolved the problem ourselves. She hung up on me. I just chalked it up to "mom being mom". I didn't call back. She ended up calling me in about a week. Never once mentioned the situation & talked as if nothing ever happened.

Some mom's especially react with emotions & sometimes passive aggressive behaviors to manipulate their kid to do what they want & some dad's end up going along with it, not necessarily because it is how they think but because they are the one still living with mom & her reactions.

Sometimes we just have to let them have their "hissy fit" while we just let it pass since they probably will never really change by that point in their life.

I swore as a kid I would never be like my parents. I tried hard to never be like that as a parent.....but I can observe a few others my age (66) who still react to their adult kids the way my mom acted to me.

My parents died years ago. I did love them in spite of their quirky behaviors.....but I can also say there was a level of stress that vanished after losing them even though I missed them also.

I don't think it is just an only child thing with parents because a friend of mine has many adult kids & seems to have similar behaviors.

Sometimes just letting it pass can be the best solution...let them resolve it & get back in touch with you when they are ready.