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  #26  
Old Jul 01, 2019, 01:11 PM
Anonymous43089
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Originally Posted by tecomsin View Post
About what forgiveness is and what it is not, Skeezyks posted a number of articles on psychcentral in a different tread. My father died last night. I am glad I was able to re-establish contact with him and tell him that I loved him and say goodbye. He was accepting of his death and wanted it to be quick. He went out with 'no grudges' against anyone but didn't ask for forgiveness.

I am slowly digesting this psychcentral blog post on forgiveness: Forgiveness: Why You Should Consider It and How to Forgive
From the blog: "Forgiveness is about you, not them."

Absolutely. It's about you letting go of anger and resentment for your own well-being. When you hold onto anger, that person, the object of your anger, still has control over you and your peace of mind. Anger can be useful in that it motivates us to act against an oppressor. But holding onto anger after the fact hurts us more than it does them.

I'm glad you were able to talk with him before he died.
Thanks for this!
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  #27  
Old Jul 01, 2019, 03:44 PM
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divine1966 divine1966 is offline
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
Yeah, there are people who use predatory type behavior to control others. Cosby's certainly one. But when it comes to the different types of abusers, I'd argue that the cold, calculating predators like Cosby are in the minority, yet that's the type we hear about most often, and the type that's most commonly portrayed in movies. Hell, even the few primary psychopaths I've met were hardly the suave, cunning manipulators as portrayed by Billy Campbell in Enough or the pornstache guy in that one Julia Roberts movie. Even informational text on recognizing abusers kind of makes it seem like these abusers are a lot more powerful than they actually are, like all of their behavior and manipulations are planned and deliberate "tactics." In my experience with actual abusers, that just doesn't ring true. Some of their behaviors are probably deliberate tactics, such as attempts to isolate the victim. But for the most part, I think a lot of abusers have the emotional maturity of a 10-year-old, and most of their behavior stems from that.

Again, I think the terminology is misleading because of the connotations around the term, not that people never use predatory tactics. It's very one-dimensional, and it conjures up images of remorseless monsters. I doubt most abusers would identify with that sort of image. Consequently, they fail to recognize their own behavior as abusive. They don't feel like remorseless predators, therefore they don't feel like what they're doing is truly abusive.

On the flipside, I've been on the receiving end of what would technically be labelled as abuse (I was slapped and whipped with a stick by an ex-boyfriend), yet I don't feel like a victim, and therefore I wouldn't label him as an abuser. It just doesn't resonate with me. Would it still be deemed abuse if I didn't feel like I had been abused?
Absolutely even if you don’t recognize something as abuse certain behaviors are most certainly abusuve.

People don’t see something as abusive for many reasons: believe they deserve it, “that’s how all men behave”, he didn’t mean it, he did not beat me up, he only did it because I provoked him, that’s his right because he is a man etc Abuse is abuse. Just because people think that bad treatment is normal it doesn’t make it less abusive.

Unless you requested to be slapped and beaten up (perhaps if you are in S/M relationship), yes you were abused.
  #28  
Old Jul 01, 2019, 04:26 PM
Johnhopkins1234 Johnhopkins1234 is offline
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@nicoleflynn. What if you can’t walk away what if when your home your parents verbally abuse you call yo names belittle you use sayings too shut you up raise a fist too you too scare you threaten too call the police over homework and convince you they will what if they used too hit you over little things and would follow you around and hit you if you were playing in the house or said hi at the wrong time what if your in a residential that helps a lot /. With socializing which I’m a lot better at now but you still feel the horrible emotions and anger from your past which they don’t know how too work with me on what if your scared too ask people for help or thorns they won’t help you what if you always think people are talking about you but there not what if it’s so bad that you have too do certain rituals too get rid of the feelings which come back what if you can’t even go home because your parents control you and your stuck at a residential with everyone on break no one too talk too basically except on your phone and it’s not the same and the only way I can maybe go home is if I stay at home on weekends or on breaks and not hang out with anyone...
  #29  
Old Jul 01, 2019, 05:00 PM
Anonymous43089
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Absolutely even if you don’t recognize something as abuse certain behaviors are most certainly abusuve.
Technically, sure, but you'd have a helluva time getting me to accept that, and I won't.

But I didn't bring up that story to argue the technicalities of abuse. Instead, I wanted to point out a problem with the narrative of the abuser/victim dichotomy. It's too exaggerated, too black and white, and too rigid. The common perception we have of an abuser simply doesn't reflect what we actually experience, and therefore people sometimes fail to recognize an abusive situation, especially when it's non-physical. I was hit, and I still don't see it as abuse.

There was a recent discussion involving someone who described an incident that was very obviously abuse, and the reaction to her post was one of horror and dismay. The other posters insisted that the behavior was abuse and that the OP was in grave danger. The OP, much to everyone else's horror, argued against that fact. And I can kind of understand why she would do that. These are very emotionally loaded terms -- which is our doing -- and I can see why it would be difficult for someone to accept that reality.
  #30  
Old Jul 01, 2019, 08:59 PM
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divine1966 divine1966 is offline
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
Technically, sure, but you'd have a helluva time getting me to accept that, and I won't.

But I didn't bring up that story to argue the technicalities of abuse. Instead, I wanted to point out a problem with the narrative of the abuser/victim dichotomy. It's too exaggerated, too black and white, and too rigid. The common perception we have of an abuser simply doesn't reflect what we actually experience, and therefore people sometimes fail to recognize an abusive situation, especially when it's non-physical. I was hit, and I still don't see it as abuse.

There was a recent discussion involving someone who described an incident that was very obviously abuse, and the reaction to her post was one of horror and dismay. The other posters insisted that the behavior was abuse and that the OP was in grave danger. The OP, much to everyone else's horror, argued against that fact. And I can kind of understand why she would do that. These are very emotionally loaded terms -- which is our doing -- and I can see why it would be difficult for someone to accept that reality.
I have no interest in getting you to accept that you are being abused. It’s your right to accept or not accept it. Just saying it doesn’t make it less of an abuse if abuse victim doesn’t recognize it as such.

Yes it’s not always easy to accept reality. Sometimes (not in your situation as I’ve no idea what was going on) accepting that it’s abuse means one probably gotta do something. Like maybe get out. Not everyone wants to do that. Sometimes staying is easier. So it’s easier to deny it or downplay it.
  #31  
Old Jul 01, 2019, 10:08 PM
tecomsin tecomsin is offline
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It's a common coping mechanism to deal with problems to deny that they exist. Denial is much broader than the context of abuse but its harms get magnified in that context as the longer the abuse goes on the more damage and trauma can occur. Then the problems get multiplied.

It can be very painful to admit that one is being abused, just in and of itself, irrespective of the consequences in life.
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  #32  
Old Jul 02, 2019, 06:36 AM
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divine1966 divine1966 is offline
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Originally Posted by tecomsin View Post
It's a common coping mechanism to deal with problems to deny that they exist. Denial is much broader than the context of abuse but its harms get magnified in that context as the longer the abuse goes on the more damage and trauma can occur. Then the problems get multiplied.

It can be very painful to admit that one is being abused, just in and of itself, irrespective of the consequences in life.
Excellent post
Thanks for this!
tecomsin
  #33  
Old Jul 02, 2019, 07:20 AM
TishaBuv TishaBuv is offline
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Originally Posted by Johnhopkins1234 View Post
@nicoleflynn. What if you can’t walk away what if when your home your parents verbally abuse you call yo names belittle you use sayings too shut you up raise a fist too you too scare you threaten too call the police over homework and convince you they will what if they used too hit you over little things and would follow you around and hit you if you were playing in the house or said hi at the wrong time what if your in a residential that helps a lot /. With socializing which I’m a lot better at now but you still feel the horrible emotions and anger from your past which they don’t know how too work with me on what if your scared too ask people for help or thorns they won’t help you what if you always think people are talking about you but there not what if it’s so bad that you have too do certain rituals too get rid of the feelings which come back what if you can’t even go home because your parents control you and your stuck at a residential with everyone on break no one too talk too basically except on your phone and it’s not the same and the only way I can maybe go home is if I stay at home on weekends or on breaks and not hang out with anyone...
@Johnhopkins1234
Keep trying to get help from professionals and your own self. There are counselors at school, there are social services that may provide counseling. Read books and psych articles on the internet about abuse and what is a healthy relationship. Be your own advocate and keep posting here. There are people who truly care for you and want to help!
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Thanks for this!
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  #34  
Old Jul 02, 2019, 02:34 PM
Anonymous43089
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Originally Posted by tecomsin View Post
It's a common coping mechanism to deal with problems to deny that they exist. Denial is much broader than the context of abuse but its harms get magnified in that context as the longer the abuse goes on the more damage and trauma can occur. Then the problems get multiplied.

It can be very painful to admit that one is being abused, just in and of itself, irrespective of the consequences in life.
I didn't deny that a problem existed, and I handled it with relative ease. It just didn't fit the narrative of abuser/victim, and thus it's hard for me to understand it that way.

That isn't to say denial isn't a factor for a lot of people. Yes, I'm sure many victims of abuse would rather deny the gravity of the situation, especially when escape seems nearly impossible or when there are other lives at stake.
Thanks for this!
tecomsin
  #35  
Old Jul 02, 2019, 02:39 PM
Anonymous43089
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Originally Posted by Johnhopkins1234 View Post
@nicoleflynn. What if you can’t walk away what if when your home your parents verbally abuse you call yo names belittle you use sayings too shut you up raise a fist too you too scare you threaten too call the police over homework and convince you they will what if they used too hit you over little things and would follow you around and hit you if you were playing in the house or said hi at the wrong time what if your in a residential that helps a lot /. With socializing which I’m a lot better at now but you still feel the horrible emotions and anger from your past which they don’t know how too work with me on what if your scared too ask people for help or thorns they won’t help you what if you always think people are talking about you but there not what if it’s so bad that you have too do certain rituals too get rid of the feelings which come back what if you can’t even go home because your parents control you and your stuck at a residential with everyone on break no one too talk too basically except on your phone and it’s not the same and the only way I can maybe go home is if I stay at home on weekends or on breaks and not hang out with anyone...
Are you still living with your parents? Have you spoken to a school counselor or a teacher about their behavior?
  #36  
Old Jul 02, 2019, 05:44 PM
tecomsin tecomsin is offline
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Originally Posted by theoretical View Post
I didn't deny that a problem existed, and I handled it with relative ease. It just didn't fit the narrative of abuser/victim, and thus it's hard for me to understand it that way.

That isn't to say denial isn't a factor for a lot of people. Yes, I'm sure many victims of abuse would rather deny the gravity of the situation, especially when escape seems nearly impossible or when there are other lives at stake.
I wasn't referring to your situation, but to what I see as a big factor in why many adults stay in abusive relationships... denial that is.

It can be a big factor also for children who don't want to believe their parents are abusing them. It is a very threatening realization to have as a child and I didnt see my parents behavior as child abuse until much later.

It has taken me a long time to accept I was a victim of child abuse and because of my boundary problems I made very poor choices more than once on who I would get involved with and didn't see the red flags of abuse until it already started. Victims get demoralized and may lose the ability to escape if they believe the only person who will love them is their abuser.
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