[rdgrad15]

Does anyone struggle with telling someone when something they're doing bothers you? Is it out of fear of conflict or something else? For example, if a friend bails on you because they found other plans they may have liked better or someone treats you a certain way compared to others that makes you feel like you're being treated unfairly? It can be anything someone does that bothers you, those are just a couple examples. I know I have trouble telling people when something is bothering me. Part of it is due to fear of conflict, but mainly it is due to me not wanting them to do something for me out of obligation. Like if a friend were to consistently bail out on me over plans they preferred better and it was to the point where I felt like a backup friend or just a friend out of boredom, I may not say anything.

The reason is because either that friend may get mad and may even call me clingy or they may hang out with me because they feel obligated to. I've had stuff like that happen in the past where a friend would bail on me consistently to the point of being disrespectful. In some extreme cases, I may have said something a little bit but in most cases I would keep quiet because the times I did say something, the person would get mad and even call me clingy even though it was proven that they were just using me as a back up friend all along.

Another reason is because as much as I wanted to let the person know what they were doing was wrong, I didn't want them to hang out with me out of obligation while wishing they were with someone else. They clearly wanted to be with someone else so I don't want to stop them from going. I just simply wanted them to know that I would like them to not treat me unfairly. Anytime I have asked someone to stop treating me in someway that was not fair or was rude, I did it nicely and would let them know I don't care if they hung out with other people, I just don't like having plans constantly be cancelled just because a better offer came along. Doing that so many times can make someone feel used.

The problem with this is that they would still get extremely mad and defensive. That's why usually I don't say anything. In most cases, I just keep it to myself and in some cases, even begin to pull away. Has anyone ever pulled away from someone rather than telling them what they're doing was bothering you? Do you think telling someone their behavior bothers you could accidentally make you look clingy? There is a difference between being clingy and just asking for someone to treat you better but I can see how doing so could give off the impression that you're clingy or dependent. Also, like I mentioned, it could make them feel obligated to hang out with you rather than hang out with people they really want to be with. They could easily wish they were elsewhere if they feel obligated to hang out with you and I don't want that to happen either. Just wondered what your thoughts were on this and how you handle this kind of stuff.

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

Do you struggle with telling someone when something they're doing bothers you?

No.

Is it out of fear of conflict or something else?

I'd day it's mostly fear of conflict, or maybe it'd be more accurate to say that it's mostly the potential negative consequences of creating conflict. Are you afraid it'll escalate into something worse? Or of losing the relationship? Or, as you mentioned later, of being seen as needy?

The reason is because either that friend may get mad and may even call me clingy or they may hang out with me because they feel obligated to. I've had stuff like that happen in the past where a friend would bail on me consistently to the point of being disrespectful. In some extreme cases, I may have said something a little bit but in most cases I would keep quiet because the times I did say something, the person would get mad and even call me clingy even though it was proven that they were just using me as a back up friend all along.

"Friend." You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Seriously, though. These people aren't your friends, and don't feel afraid to call them out on their ****** behavior. And if they're hanging out with you only because you've made them feel obligated to, you can call them out on that too. Just calmly sit them down at the bar, and say, "Look, Billy, you're a great guy and all, but I think we're on different wavelengths, you and I. Our interests simply don't align. You have your polka dances, and I have my hardcore gambling ring. I think we need to start seeing other peer groups."

I had a friend who was really into smoking pot, and I wasn't. Well, she kept wanting to hang out, so I suggested we play this new video game at my place because I was the only one with decent enough internet to play online. She didn't seem all that thrilled when I initially asked her, which should've been a sign, but later she agreed. Anyway, her and another friend came over, and we're playing games. While I was in the bathroom, I overheard them whispering, and he told her something along the lines of, "See? I told you it wouldn't be boring."

And it was weird to me, because I'm the sort of person who has no problem saying "no" if I don't want to do something. I'll even flat out tell you that whatever hobby you're trying to get me to do is boring. You do you, I'll do me. Any questions? So it was strange to me that she was so demure about the whole thing, that she never even gave me any verbal indication that she would find this boring. Sure, I probably should've picked up on her initial hesitations, but I'm sometimes dense when it comes to these sort of things.

I just don't like having plans constantly be cancelled just because a better offer came along. Doing that so many times can make someone feel used.

That's completely understandable. I'd be annoyed simply due to the fact that they wasted my time.

The problem with this is that they would still get extremely mad and defensive.

Why are they getting mad? They're the ones in the wrong.

Have you ever pulled away from someone rather than telling them what they're doing was bothering you? Do you think telling someone their behavior bothers you could accidentally make you look clingy?

Yes, and it depends on how you say it.

A question, though, what exactly is the "hang out" activity? Going to bars? D&D? Sky diving? Organized crime?

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by theoretical

No.

Is it out of fear of conflict or something else?

I'd day it's mostly fear of conflict, or maybe it'd be more accurate to say that it's mostly the potential negative consequences of creating conflict. Are you afraid it'll escalate into something worse? Or of losing the relationship? Or, as you mentioned later, of being seen as needy?

The reason is because either that friend may get mad and may even call me clingy or they may hang out with me because they feel obligated to. I've had stuff like that happen in the past where a friend would bail on me consistently to the point of being disrespectful. In some extreme cases, I may have said something a little bit but in most cases I would keep quiet because the times I did say something, the person would get mad and even call me clingy even though it was proven that they were just using me as a back up friend all along.

"Friend." You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Seriously, though. These people aren't your friends, and don't feel afraid to call them out on their ****** behavior. And if they're hanging out with you only because you've made them feel obligated to, you can call them out on that too. Just calmly sit them down at the bar, and say, "Look, Billy, you're a great guy and all, but I think we're on different wavelengths, you and I. Our interests simply don't align. You have your polka dances, and I have my hardcore gambling ring. I think we need to start seeing other peer groups."

I had a friend who was really into smoking pot, and I wasn't. Well, she kept wanting to hang out, so I suggested we play this new video game at my place because I was the only one with decent enough internet to play online. She didn't seem all that thrilled when I initially asked her, which should've been a sign, but later she agreed. Anyway, her and another friend came over, and we're playing games. While I was in the bathroom, I overheard them whispering, and he told her something along the lines of, "See? I told you it wouldn't be boring."

And it was weird to me, because I'm the sort of person who has no problem saying "no" if I don't want to do something. I'll even flat out tell you that whatever hobby you're trying to get me to do is boring. You do you, I'll do me. Any questions? So it was strange to me that she was so demure about the whole thing, that she never even gave me any verbal indication that she would find this boring. Sure, I probably should've picked up on her initial hesitations, but I'm sometimes dense when it comes to these sort of things.

I just don't like having plans constantly be cancelled just because a better offer came along. Doing that so many times can make someone feel used.

That's completely understandable. I'd be annoyed simply due to the fact that they wasted my time.

The problem with this is that they would still get extremely mad and defensive.

Why are they getting mad? They're the ones in the wrong.

Have you ever pulled away from someone rather than telling them what they're doing was bothering you? Do you think telling someone their behavior bothers you could accidentally make you look clingy?

Yes, and it depends on how you say it.

A question, though, what exactly is the "hang out" activity? Going to bars? D&D? Sky diving? Organized crime?

Yeah I agree with a lot you said. In terms of hanging out and the kinds of activities, I mean any kind, even just chilling at someone's home for a bit or seeing a movie. And yeah, I fear that if I say something, it will escalate and may even lose the friendship. I had people stop talking to me after I politely told them to stop treating me a certain way. Yes, they weren't real friends. But some people who are friends could do still do this at times. Everyone is prone to messing up and doing something that may hurt someone else's feelings or upset someone in some way. And yes, in terms of being annoyed that they wasted your time, I get annoyed too. In fact, that's usually the other reason I get annoyed. Not because they decided to hang out with another friend, but the fact that they decided to do so at the last minute and bail out or repeatedly bail out over and over again which causes me to waste my time and even money. Some people usually either don't care, or even in some extreme cases, don't know or understand how rude it can come off.

In terms of them getting mad, the reason they get mad is because usually people who get called out on don't like the fact that they were caught and will get very mad and defensive and may even believe how they behave is perfectly normal. I actually know a couple people like that. Yes there are people who consistently bail out on others intentionally because they just like to use people out of boredom so they're not lonely. But for some other people, like a couple of people I know, actually truly don't see what's wrong with what they are doing and think it's actually okay to ditch people at the last minute anytime they want and they will get mad because they feel attacked and may not understand how they are being rude. Instead, they'll assume you're being a drama queen or drama king and may even think you're clingy and desperate.

if you don't tell someone they are doing something that irritates you then they will keep doing it.

how will they know otherwise?

how do you expect them to stop the behavior that is bothering YOU if you don't let them know it bothers YOU?

seems like the onus is really on YOU. can't fault them for actions until YOU let them know something is wrong. so basically it is a "poop or get off the pot" kind of scenario...yea their actions may upset you but if they don't know what they are doing upsets you, well then they get a free ride.

let them know your feelings. if they get mad, well so be it. people get upset about being told to change their behavior. do it nicely. they don't have to change and may not. in that case you have to decide..are they worth it as friends who annoy you or do you walk away.

make a decision about it & act...either way. or you are doomed to just be unhappy & complain.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by resurgam

if you don't tell someone they are doing something that irritates you then they will keep doing it.

how will they know otherwise?

how do you expect them to stop the behavior that is bothering YOU if you don't let them know it bothers YOU?

seems like the onus is really on YOU. can't fault them for actions until YOU let them know something is wrong. so basically it is a "poop or get off the pot" kind of scenario...yea their actions may upset you but if they don't know what they are doing upsets you, well then they get a free ride.

let them know your feelings. if they get mad, well so be it. people get upset about being told to change their behavior. do it nicely. they don't have to change and may not. in that case you have to decide..are they worth it as friends who annoy you or do you walk away.

make a decision about it & act...either way. or you are doomed to just be unhappy & complain.

I understand where you're coming from. Yes I agree you should say something, but there are people out there that make it hard to say something to due to them easily flying off the handle and making accusations towards you and making it like you're the problem when all you did was politely ask them to stop doing whatever it is they are doing, even if it's something small. For example, years ago in college, I had asked someone who I thought was a friend to stop bailing out at the last minute. Wanted her to let me know sooner in advance rather than constantly at the last minute.

Basically I was just a friend out of boredom for her. Her reaction? She threw her phone against her dorm room wall and started screaming and saying that maybe she isn't a good friend then and saying I'm very paranoid. All I did was politely ask her and it resulted in an overreaction. She had other similar temper tantrums like that as well, not just that one time and not just with me, but with other people too. That's why sometimes I am reluctant to say something due to possible negative consequences. I've had other experiences like that with other people, but that was one of the more extreme cases. Basically I think to myself, if I speak up, will they go so mad that they may say things that aren't true or act like a child? That kind of stuff. Usually that means they aren't a good friend though. But I understand, there are times when you really do need to speak up.

Originally Posted by resurgam

how will they know otherwise?

I disagree in this case. It should be pretty common sense to know not to waste other people's time, and that doing so would likely upset them. I would still consider it poor etiquette even if the other person was a doormat who would never complain about me ditching them. Their response (or lack of) would give me the impression that their time isn't of value, and you don't want to give people that impression.

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

--but there are people out there that make it hard to say something to due to them easily flying off the handle and making accusations towards you and making it like you're the problem when all you did was politely ask them to stop doing whatever it is they are doing, even if it's something small. For example, years ago in college, I had asked someone who I thought was a friend to stop bailing out at the last minute. Wanted her to let me know sooner in advance rather than constantly at the last minute.

Basically I was just a friend out of boredom for her. Her reaction? She threw her phone against her dorm room wall and started screaming and saying that maybe she isn't a good friend then and saying I'm very paranoid. All I did was politely ask her and it resulted in an overreaction.

You shouldn't be afraid of these people. If they react in such a way to a polite disagreement, especially when they're in the wrong, then they have issues. It's better that you know this, rather than continue pretending to be their friend while they walk all over you.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by theoretical

I disagree in this case. It should be pretty common sense to know not to waste other people's time, and that doing so would likely upset them. I would still consider it poor etiquette even if the other person was a doormat who would never complain about me ditching them. Their response (or lack of) would give me the impression that their time isn't of value, and you don't want to give people that impression.


You shouldn't be afraid of these people. If they react in such a way to a polite disagreement, especially when they're in the wrong, then they have issues. It's better that you know this, rather than continue pretending to be their friend while they walk all over you.

I totally agree with you. People know when they are purposely wasting your time and there is no excuse for it. And yes, as for the couple of people I mentioned, I don’t hang out with them anymore. They were definitely not true friends. Yeah someone who reacts by throwing their phone and screaming after a polite request definitely has problems and it even made me more suspicious that she was trying to hide something. Extreme overreactions like the one I posted usually means the person is hiding something and is up to no good.

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

The problem with this is that they would still get extremely mad and defensive. That's why usually I don't say anything. In most cases, I just keep it to myself and in some cases, even begin to pull away. Has anyone ever pulled away from someone rather than telling them what they're doing was bothering you?

Good question and use of logic. It does not sound like it would be constructive to confront them based on their reactions. The reason you confront someone is in hopes of a change. But if they are becoming angry and defensive and even accusatory (saying that you are being clingy) and unwilling to understand your POV, it does not look like change would be happening any time soon. Therefore, I think it's best to conserve your energy for better friends.

basically I still go with boundaries & the if you don't tell someone then they will never know. don't spend you life wondering if they will figure it out or if you think it's something that everyone should know. tell them, & be done with it. end of story.

[sarahsweets]

It depends on whether I think that if they changed the behavior things would be good again and how egregious the behavior it is. With friends if I ever felt like a back-up friend and someone kept bailing on me I might not say anything and move on. If they circle back and ask me whats up I may tell them but I see no need to tell someone something they should know already isnt ok. People know when they are doing the wrong thing and being a crap friend. I shouldnt have to point it out to them. I had one friend tell me that it hurt her feelings when we would be texting back and forth for awhile and then I drop off for a week. I realized that it was my depression and that I wasn't being fair. So I make it a point of letting her know if I am having an episode even if its " I am feeling bad, its not you, talk to you soon". This way she knew it wasn't her and that I wasn't busy living it up with other people. But if its a matter of getting ditched by friends, they are not friends. I wouldn't worry about if I seemed clingy. To me, clingy is latching on to someone in an unhealthy manner- I do not see common courtesy as unhealthy.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by resurgam

basically I still go with boundaries & the if you don't tell someone then they will never know. don't spend you life wondering if they will figure it out or if you think it's something that everyone should know. tell them, & be done with it. end of story.

Most people know what they are doing is wrong. Purposely bailing on someone is one of those things where the person doing the bailing is being a horrible friend.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by sarahsweets

It depends on whether I think that if they changed the behavior things would be good again and how egregious the behavior it is. With friends if I ever felt like a back-up friend and someone kept bailing on me I might not say anything and move on. If they circle back and ask me whats up I may tell them but I see no need to tell someone something they should know already isnt ok. People know when they are doing the wrong thing and being a crap friend. I shouldnt have to point it out to them. I had one friend tell me that it hurt her feelings when we would be texting back and forth for awhile and then I drop off for a week. I realized that it was my depression and that I wasn't being fair. So I make it a point of letting her know if I am having an episode even if its " I am feeling bad, its not you, talk to you soon". This way she knew it wasn't her and that I wasn't busy living it up with other people. But if its a matter of getting ditched by friends, they are not friends. I wouldn't worry about if I seemed clingy. To me, clingy is latching on to someone in an unhealthy manner- I do not see common courtesy as unhealthy.

Yeah I totally agree. And that’s good that you were able to rectify the problem with your friend so your friend knows you’re not purposely ditching her or using her as a back up friend. Wish more people were like you where they were more accepting of change. And yes, clingy is latching on in a unhealthy manner and may even be not allowing your friend to have other friends and if they do then you get very mad at them.

Yeah I agree that a polite request for common courtesy is not clingy. I believe if someone says your clingy just because you asked them politely to stop doing something may indicate they don’t really care about you. That’s the conclusion i came to when someone called me clingy just because I politely asked her to stop treating me a certain way.

I disagree, not everyone knows what they are doing is wrong...it might be something that irritates YOU...not them. and after a while it just makes you crazy. so the ball is in your court. either put up with it or tell them stop.

people don't have spy scopes into other folks heads. they can't be aware at all times of what irks others. sure some stuff is obvious but others are not. regardless, if something another person does bothers you and you don't say anything about it, well any suffering that occurs you own.
they may have no idea they are even doing something annoying..and at that point the ball goes to their court.

[tecomsin]

I have a history of not being able to speak up when my feelings are being hurt by friends or other people. I still have a lot of difficulty doing things in real time, but when I have time to reflect i can usually compose something for the next time we speak.

I was recently dumped in the middle of an outing when the person got a phone call and decided to meet their other friend instead of stay with me. We had just finished lunch and had plans to go to the park on one of the nice days. It wasn't until I got home that i was able to text her that my feelings were hurt by what she did. But you can't unring that bell. I learned that I was her backup friend and haven't spoken to her since. Stopped texting too. I think that 6 year friendship is over.

Originally Posted by tecomsin

I was recently dumped in the middle of an outing when the person got a phone call and decided to meet their other friend instead of stay with me. We had just finished lunch and had plans to go to the park on one of the nice days.

You did the right thing by going no contact with her after you figured out that she is using you as a backup friend.

If I ever confront friends, it is because I want to work things out to continue the friendship. But I don't want to continue with someone who use me as a backup friend.

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

Most people know what they are doing is wrong. Purposely bailing on someone is one of those things where the person doing the bailing is being a horrible friend.

Even if they are doing it subconsciously (like not actually thinking about how to ditch you), it is nevertheless the result of them not respecting or valuing enough to treat you with basic courtesy.

[tecomsin]

Originally Posted by ennie

You did the right thing by going no contact with her after you figured out that she is using you as a backup friend.

If I ever confront friends, it is because I want to work things out to continue the friendship. But I don't want to continue with someone who use me as a backup friend.

That sounds like a healthy approach. This person was my 'best' friend. We went out once a week for years and would text most days. I am sad about letting it go but also have no desire to see her again. I don't feel respected as a human being.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by rdgrad15

Yeah I totally agree. And that’s good that you were able to rectify the problem with your friend so your friend knows you’re not purposely ditching her or using her as a back up friend. Wish more people were like you where they were more accepting of change. And yes, clingy is latching on in a unhealthy manner and may even be not allowing your friend to have other friends and if they do then you get very mad at them.

Yeah I agree that a polite request for common courtesy is not clingy. I believe if someone says your clingy just because you asked them politely to stop doing something may indicate they don’t really care about you. That’s the conclusion i came to when someone called me clingy just because I politely asked her to stop treating me a certain way.

Yeah there are things that people may not realize they do that are annoying. But some stuff I mentioned before and what other posters have mentioned such as purposely bailing on others or using others know exactly what they are doing. Those are the people who honestly really shouldn’t have to be told to stop.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by tecomsin

I have a history of not being able to speak up when my feelings are being hurt by friends or other people. I still have a lot of difficulty doing things in real time, but when I have time to reflect i can usually compose something for the next time we speak.

I was recently dumped in the middle of an outing when the person got a phone call and decided to meet their other friend instead of stay with me. We had just finished lunch and had plans to go to the park on one of the nice days. It wasn't until I got home that i was able to text her that my feelings were hurt by what she did. But you can't unring that bell. I learned that I was her backup friend and haven't spoken to her since. Stopped texting too. I think that 6 year friendship is over.

Wow, I’m sorry that happened. Sounds like she was just using you as a back up friend like you mentioned. Yeah the friendship is probably over. It may suck now but in the long run, you will feel better. I’ve had toxic friendships end and honestly after they ended, it was literally like a weight was lifted off my shoulders. In fact, I found myself to be happier soon afterwards. Yes I will admit I would feel disappointed for a bit that it had to end that way and wished the person was better, but I felt happier in the long run.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by ennie

You did the right thing by going no contact with her after you figured out that she is using you as a backup friend.

If I ever confront friends, it is because I want to work things out to continue the friendship. But I don't want to continue with someone who use me as a backup friend.

I agree with this.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by ennie

Even if they are doing it subconsciously (like not actually thinking about how to ditch you), it is nevertheless the result of them not respecting or valuing enough to treat you with basic courtesy.

Exactly. Totally agree. It usually means they don’t care about you enough or as much as other people.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by tecomsin

That sounds like a healthy approach. This person was my 'best' friend. We went out once a week for years and would text most days. I am sad about letting it go but also have no desire to see her again. I don't feel respected as a human being.

It is sad to see someone go because it leaves you wishing they had been a better friend and wished things had not turned sour but at the same time you will feel happier in the long run.

[tecomsin]

Maybe it was a mistake but I gave this person a chance to make amends over text. It was in some sense even more disappointing than the original insult where they ditched me to go see their other friend instead, in the middle of an outing together. They didn't seem to realize what I was looking for even though I spelled it out plainly. I got a perfunctory apology and then she immediately changed the subject to why she had to discuss with the friend she dumped me to see. She was justifying what she had done. At least i know that i only belong to some 'sub-human' category in her mind.

[mugwort2]

I play it by ear My usual pattern is to tolerate the bothersome behavior because I feel guilty complaining. Then when I can't stand it anymore I usually yell at them very angrily . Yes I realize its a terrible way to handle the situation. I'd like to work with my therapist on a much fairer solution for whoever I'm dealing with and me.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by tecomsin

Maybe it was a mistake but I gave this person a chance to make amends over text. It was in some sense even more disappointing than the original insult where they ditched me to go see their other friend instead, in the middle of an outing together. They didn't seem to realize what I was looking for even though I spelled it out plainly. I got a perfunctory apology and then she immediately changed the subject to why she had to discuss with the friend she dumped me to see. She was justifying what she had done. At least i know that i only belong to some 'sub-human' category in her mind.

I’m sorry you had to go through that. Glad you figured out her true colors and stopped being friends with her.