Degenerating relationship with my mother

Thanks TishBuv

Had one long-term relationship. We split about ten years ago. Even as a parent, he disliked how my mother behaved. Have to be careful here not to offend. He always referred to her as that person who tried twice to take over the world and failed. Think you know who I mean. What we call a nickname. Suppose he became more like a father figure (nothing sleazy) as there was same age difference as between my mother and father. There's been no-one serious since, as the saying goes "the world is full of married men". I do get on better with men than women. I like sport, have a traditionally male hobby so on that level at least there can be a meeting of minds.

Yes, she has. It's never been subtle. Wanting a certain degree of freedom aged 16, I lost friends because I wasn't allowed to do things they were allowed to do. For example, having to be home by 9.30pm, when movie didn't finish until say 1015pm. As I got older, she imagined all sorts of things going on, especially related to men. Just the same way her mother had behaved. Also once told me, when I was in 20s, that I'd let her down because I hadn't produced a grandchild. Wasn't even with someone then! Even work colleagues who never met her came to same conclusion. One wise man commented "don't give in, she'll take more and more". I was around 50 then. Another suggested I would never have complete freedom until contact was severed. He'd done it with his parents; dominating mother and passive father.

This forum has certainly aided my understanding of human behaviour. Nothing surprises/shocks me anymore. The initial hurt comes from realising someone so close to you can behave this way.

So, today's phone call followed same course as last week.

I was awaiting result of home Covid test, so called her. After talking briefly about that and what it entailed, she then turned conversation round to how hurt she felt that I was not contacting her. Usual fifteen or so minutes of diatribe about how cruel I am being and that she didn't expect her daughter to behave that way. Then proceeded to tell me how kind everyone was being. She hopes to get supermarket slot next week, so contrary to what she's said, there's no help from my brother. Then made a big show of how my aunt is going to pick her up tomorrow. Her grandson's girlfriend is a hairdresser so will do her hair. To quote "that's the act of kindness that I like". Another guilt trip!

Then she said she didn't know the cause of the problem. When I got a word in, reminded her of the emotional blackmail regarding sister-in-law's actions. Was then accused of bringing up the subject yet again. Seems to take great delight in not recognising the cause and accusing me of going over old ground. Ended with tears again and her ringing off without a goodbye. Needless to say, not visiting this afternoon.

Test was negative. May try and get doctor's appointment, if only on telephone. Perhaps I need a therapist. Like the contributors here, a neutral may offer a solution I've missed.

Well, things have quietened down.

Yesterday was family BBQ (my aunt turned 80 on Friday). My cousin hosted; it was a lovely afternoon. I took mother; no point in brother doing round trip of over 10 miles to pick her up.

When we arrived, sister-in-law, glass in hand, was bossing everyone around. As usual my brother was on grill duty. No reaction to me when we walked in. I didn't expect it. At one point sister-on-law was standing behind me, only realised when offered to help mother to her seat. She soon got bored with showing everyone how good/kind she was. Wearing sunglasses, I was able to watch the "dynamics". She spent most of remaining time talking to my cousin, watching me or topping up her glass. One thing I noticed was how quiet she was compared to usual.

Mother hasn't mentioned anything yet but did criticise my older niece's partner for not saying thank you for his birthday present. She also acknowledged that niece doesn't either. I don't think the help network is working as well as she wanted. My aunt isn't doing shopping, so assume it's my brother and sister-in-law. Mother has mentioned she's run out of things.

I know she wants to give me some petrol money for yesterday's journey, but I don't want to take it. Don't want her to think I'm changing my stance. Tuesday will be interesting, it's her birthday.

Well it didn't last long!

Mother's birthday was nice, we went to local garden centre which has a great cafe. My aunt joined us. Problem arose when aunt announced she had to leave around 4pm to get to my brother's to watch England match. I left mother's house about an hour later. Brother had already visited previous day "to leave actual day open for us". Real reason was he wanted to watch the match.

Mother has told my aunt how hurt she is that she chose to watch soccer match elsewhere rather than continue to celebrate her birthday. Phone call today was usual diatribe about my attitude. The final straw was "I'm not seeking revenge as I would have done when I was younger". What a totally unacceptable thing to say to your daughter. Had quick chat with my aunt, who doesn't understand the attitude.

We may now have to address the dementia question, although I still believe this behaviour isn't anything new.

An update.

Yesterday was my birthday. Until two days ago, I hadn't heard from my mother for around six weeks. My aunt invited us over to see her new house. When I picked up mother she wasn't ready, didn't wish me happy birthday until about ten minutes later, hadn't written my card (because "she'd been doing other things"). Dressed scruffily, complaining she'd got nothing to wear. True, because she's got rid of lots of clothes that she could still be wearing. Also, not bothering with nails, make-up etc.

Of course, it wasn't long before she started singing the praises of my brother and sister-in-law who'd "been fantastic" in cleaning her house after walk-in shower installed. I didn't bite, instead admired the work.

Had a nice pub lunch, my cousin joined us. Attempts by my mother to take over the event were deftly avoided. My aunt even advised me to try and take no notice (out of mother's earshot of course!). On the journey home, we talked about my aunt's house. Obvious from mother's attitude that she liked it but wasn't going to admit.

We didn't arrange to meet up again. She has hospital appointment on Monday. Was going to offer then thought her refusal would be a long, drawn out affair. Assume my brother is taking her.

It isn't over. She won't be able to understand why I'm not subjecting myself to her vitriol. It's called self-preservation, retaining self-esteem and not allowing myself to be manipulated.

Happy birthday poshgirl! It sounds like you really handled things well with your mum today

Nothing has changed!

Called her earlier. We talked about different things that had happened in the past week. Offered to take her clothes shopping tomorrow, but she declined as it was too short notice. Fair enough!

Then she started on the usual subject. I knew what was coming because it was again everything my brother is doing for her. She wants to know reason why I hardly contact her, calling me cruel. We've gone over this so many times but still she won't grasp the reason why I've distanced myself. As I said to my aunt earlier, this won't be consigned to history, Sad to say I was right.

I've been talked over when trying to explain that her behaviour is unacceptable. She called me a liar when I said that she wanted me to apologise for sister-in-law's actions. Still cannot give me an adequate explanation to her standard comment "you're not showing me any compassion in this instance". Then the avoidance of substantiating that statement, instead saying I should know what she means. I may have been taught many things at school/college but clairvoyancy wasn't on the curriculum!

Back to square one. My aunt's view is to try, which I have done. My mother will not face up to the reality that she has a closed mind where I am concerned and thinks that by constantly repeating herself, she will eventually grind me down

I think these unrealistic mums spend a LOT of time hoping that what worked in the past - the stick, withholding - will continue to work on us as adults. Maybe this is the tactic their mothers used on them. I think my grandmother did. But i cant fix my mothers long ago guilt this way.

Good point, unaluna. Sometimes those patterns get so entrenched, that they have a hard time taking a step back and trying another approach. I know my mother repeated the patterns she had with my grandmother with me.

I am sorry you are dealing with this poshgirl. I have to maintain a very low contact relationship with my mother because it is otherwise too stressful and anxiety-provoking, so I know how it is. Hugs!

Hoping for better night's sleep tonight. It's approaching 11pm here so will give it a go. Went to sleep crying last night, woke up in early hours still crying. Felt c**p when I got up so went for some retail therapy.

I would like to know what's been said to my brother, although he's gone off on a week's holiday (not far away, still in UK).

Thank you all for your support and hope you'll understand that what I crave now is a 6ft guy to take me (a mere 5ft) in his arms and give me the best man hug ever.

This is rough, tough or both. It's left me wondering whether this would have still happened if Covid hadn't. Perhaps it's my inquisitive mind looking for another cause to excuse her behaviour.

My hope to not have to post an update was optimistic, sadly. Some of you may be aware that I've commented on another thread, about what we're doing for the holidays.

Saw mother on Saturday and would have discussed Christmas had it not been for a minor emergency. (Whilst moving the freezer into her kitchen/diner, my brother plugged it into a socket with a timer switch. Therefore, defrosting/ refreezing so she's had to throw away food and endured a dicky tummy because it's been like this for 2 weeks). She accepted my offer to get some ready meals which I dropped in today.

Took chance to ask about Christmas. She's decided to go to my brother's house, although can't stay because they have stairs. What ensued was more of the same vitriol. All the hurt I've caused her. When I said "what about me?", she said I didn't matter. Made it worse by telling her that my aunt had told me about her suggestion to contact me. Now she's accused us of gossiping. When I got ready to leave, she said "if you walk out on me, you walk out of my life". So, she's learned nothing. I didn't expect her to but meeting half way would have been nice.

Do I feel upset about not having a family Christmas? No! As I said in the other post, the only caveat for accepting brother's invitation would be it was for my 16-year-old niece only. Now accepting I have a family of hypocrites who've only made themselves look silly.

Poshgirl - right there with you. I got that hug from my chiropractor a couple of weeks ago. That was nice of you to help your mom. Even tho you get nothing back.

Growing up, I always felt like i wasnt a part of my family. It doesnt get better as the years go on. Its like, they are now realizing the damage their pettiness caused. Cinderella's stepsisters can not live happily ever after.

One thing I forgot to add and don't want to portray that I'm gloating because I'm not.

Whilst they are congratulating themselves on this decision, they've succeeded in making themselves look silly. Certainly not me!

Unaluna, your comment rings true. As I told my mother yesterday, this hasn't all happened because of what my sister-in-law did, it started years ago. Of course, she's conveniently forgotten all the times she's belittled/criticised me and now tries to pass it off as old age.

Still "searching" for the hug....

A further update.

Spoke to my aunt last night and appears she wasn't told the whole story by my mother. I filled in the gaps.

My aunt is at a loss to understand my mother's actions/attitude, also acknowledging all I've done to help her over the years. She also agrees that my mother is difficult and seems adamant about antagonising as many people as possible.

More discussions on topic when I visit aunt on Monday....

Visit to aunt was very productive yesterday.

She now has a better understanding of how my mother is behaving. Whilst sad that mother and daughter can't have a reasonable relationship, she empathised when I put things into an historical context. In other words, this behaviour is nothing new. She listened, commented where appropriate, the most telling one being "I now realise it's not all you".

When touching on the problem with my sister-in-law, my aunt asked if I would have hit her back (if she'd connected with my face). My answer was no, I'd never behave like that. She agreed that sister-in-law has a problem which she won't acknowledge. The inability to "hold her drink".

The conversation was lengthy but at last I feel there's someone in the family who understands. My aunt even said she admired me for having my own home, car, etc. However, those are only material things. She agreed with the quotes I used from this site, especially about acknowledging my mother won't/can't change.

As someone who has always had a complicated relationship with my mother, your last comment is so true. Coming to an acceptance that she won't change has helped me to lower my expectations and has reduced my stress level in the limited situations that I have to deal with her.

Christmas Day on my own was liberating. Actually invited to lunch by mother on Boxing Day. My aunt was there. Neither asked me if I'd had a good day. Aunt was probably being tactful. Mother talked about Christmas Day at my brother's house. Know we don't have any strict covid rules in place in England this year (unlike last) but at one time there were people from five households there

Haven't felt this degree of liberation in ages. Next decision is new year. At moment, don't want to go anywhere or feel obligated to. I know that sooner or later, mother will revert to the unacceptable behaviour. Sounds selfish but I'm liking pleasing myself

Well, didn't think I'd revisit this topic but....

Today's visit to mother ended in the usual confrontation. I regret something I said behind the closed bathroom door. Although she has hearing problems, she heard every word. Now she's going to add a codicil to her will because I doubted my parentage. So much for her hearing problem!

Early in conversation, I mentioned my cousin (thread: not a time for bickering). Said I could relate to how she felt in doing what she did. Then I added that it would be nice if someone in the family asked me how I actually was. That was the trigger (different meaning to usual on here) for mother to start her rant about how badly I treated her. She's again said someone in the family is gossiping. Added that she knows I'm involved. Really?!When challenged, she wouldn't divulge what I've supposed to have said so I announced I would ask my aunt. "Don't you get causing any trouble" was the response.

Told her a couple more things which then generated the usual tirade because it emphasised that I didn't trust her. Ended in name calling (by her). Arrogant, hateful, smug; all the usual ones. And she had audacity to ask why I didn't visit her more often.

My parting statement, as she was becoming hysterical, was to stop and think about the cycle of these outbursts. She has no social life (doesn't phone anyone), usually happens after my aunt has visited, neighbour has phoned and now cleaner not doing what she should. Rather than challenge them, she decided to have a go at me instead. Have told her again it's unacceptable. Doesn't like to be challenged....

Have to go to a funeral next week. Hope it will give her time to reflect on her unacceptable behaviour, but I doub it

A further update...

Lengthy phone conversation with my aunt last night. She'd spoken to my mother and heard about the latest issues. Except there were vital parts missing. My aunt went very quiet when I filled in the gaps. She's also at a loss as to why my mother is behaving like this and said she could hear the anger in my voice.

When I repeated my comment about not being her daughter, my aunt sympathised and agreed that the treatment I was getting from my mother would make anyone wonder. She also agreed that some things looked like they were stage-managed, although she questioned my mother's ability to do that.

We moved onto other issues. My aunt has invited my mother to her new house including overnight stay. Also mentioned suggestion to stay at my mother's which was apparently met with instant rejection. All because there's a few things lying around in the spare room which my brother promised to remove. Still plenty of room to access bed, wardrobe, etc.

We explored possible effect of self-neglect or vitamin deficiency being cause of mother's attitude but there's no easy way to broach the subject. My aunt is also disappointed that her own sister is badmouthing her for no reason. We all have different personalities and how we express things. Aunt's closing words were "you've got to have a life of your own" and "whatever you do won't be good enough".

Will see what happens at family get-together on Saturday (aunt's birthday). Of course, I won't react if I hear any adverse comments. I don't do that.

And so it goes on....

Phoned mother last night to see if she still wants lift to funeral today. "No, I've made other arrangements". Silence. Extricated that my brother's taking her. Also to aunt's birthday party on Saturday. That's fine, if he wants to do extra miles to keep her happy. Doesn't matter, as he has company car anyway.

Conversation degenerated into usual blame fest, but this time I had to call out another lie. Then had lecture about how I was expected to behave today, at funeral. Made comment that I would never, ever be disrespectful to someone's memory or family. Shows how little she knows her own daughter. This is a mother who claims I show her no respect yet still treats me like a child. Regardless of how she behaves to me as an adult, I'm still supposed to take all the c**p that she dishes out. Oh, it's her birthday next week and she wanted me to know that she's yet to make up her mind what to do. So, I'll be to blame if she decides to cancel arrangements already in place. Playing the martyr as usual!

Have tried reasoning with her, counter-attacking, even staying silent. None of it works. There's got to be more to life at 60+ than this!

Is it possible to dial down the phone calls and visits to a lower level? It seems like they only cause you grief and stress and neither of you actually enjoy them.

In my case, I bowed out of the last contact with my mother (I live far away from family), which were family Zoom calls, because all she did scowl when I talked and direct rude comments to me. I got to the point where I dreaded them so much and I would start to feel stressed several days before. It has been freeing, although my sister, mom's mini-me, is not happy about it.

Thanks Rechu

I have done both. Visit once a week, likewise phone calls. My aunt, some time ago, said I was visiting too much. Others have said the same.

Well, today she was upset at the funeral but my brother buzzed round her. Frequently he used humour to keep her on an even keel. Although I hadn't seen him for months, he was very pleasant to me and even bought me a drink at the wake. She did talk to me about the people there but most of the time, I left her with my brother and it seemed to work. She could also see me talking/socialising with other people.

Saturday will be interesting, whether the same frame of mind continues. I did hear her trying to discuss her birthday with my brother, but a wake was not the right place/time.

I'm not under any illusion that anything has changed, it was just the circumstances today that made it better.

It is usually tough to decide what boundaries to put in place with family, I get it. I'm glad your brother was able to help keep her out of your way somewhat at the funeral. Discussing her birthday at a funeral sounds like something my mother would do!

After a funeral is often a time for reflection and today has been just that.

It was good to witness three children who grew up with the same level of love from both parents. Children who are now 64, 62 and 54! In my brother's case, because he hadn't attended their father's funeral, he had not seen them for around 35 years

It hasn't been my sole occupation all day but I've realised that her behaviour is causing me problems. For two weeks, since the start of this latest tirade, I've been suffering digestive problems (being polite here!). When I've moaned about the odd ache/pain (including Covid vaccine nerve damage) instead of sympathising, she's seen that as the ideal opportunity to start a tirade designed to demoralise me even more.

Enough said