Degenerating relationship with my mother

Perhaps she feels that the female is supposed to be the fixer codependent. This sadly is common in her generation.

Women were very devalued in your mother’s generation. Many women struggled with their self esteem because of that attitude.

Very difficult conversation with Mother this evening. I apologised for raising my voice to her last week, which she accepted. However, said she was still waiting for apology from me that I would not show her some compassion by apologising to my sister in law.

Doesn't want me to do any shopping for her tomorrow, says she's made other arrangements. Five minutes later, she said she'd have to sort out who would do her shopping. When I raised this, got a lecture about how hurt she was by what I'd said to her. It was no good saying people say things in the heat of the moment, she considered it was just an excuse.

Has a telephone appointment with doctor on Thursday about her depression. Over two years ago, she raised this subject during a doctor's appointment I attended with her. Doctor told her she didn't appear depressed and seemed to have a good support network. This took place well before the incident with my sister in law. However, Mother is trying to say that it's been brought on by that incident.

Had long telephone chat with my aunt who doesn't know what to suggest. I got upset, she said it's understandable. She suspects my brother has been "chosen" to do the shopping. It was very enlightening to hear that my sister in law has no intention of apologising for her actions. It's only what I suspected. So now my mother has managed to upset my aunt and me. Doesn't like neighbour for telling the truth, so now only has my brother and sister in law to help her. She'll be happy that favourite child is now at centre of her life. This all seems pre-planned. Starting this argument three weeks ago, in anticipation of lockdown ending. Sometimes I can be too perceptive but it's useful. It's as if she's engineered the whole thing.

((Poshgirl)) I think it would help you if you understood how your mother is expressing her need for a sense of control. You tend to take what she says personally instead of just reading her. There is a difference between reading and absorbing. You have been absorbing too much. Your mother has insecurities and that’s what she is revealing when she interacts. Also she tends to be stuck in a mother role which is a role she has played a long time. From what you share your mother is showing signs of decline. That is not going to change it tends to be typical of her age. This means you have to practice reading and just letting her talk and she probably will repeat, that’s what happens and becomes rather routine.

Hey if she says she made other plans about handling her shopping needs GREAT and if your brother takes her? Let him have at it. And say in a kind voice “good for you mom for taking charge”. So what if your brother helping her makes her happy. At 85 it’s good to have a sense of control and feel happy. Your mother never really did that well when it came to males in her life.

You are not ever going to change the story so step back and learn how to read what she is in the book that is HER charector and no one is going to change her charecter.

Pay attention to the things you absorb and work on letting it pass instead.

Thanks Open Eyes

Sound advice as usual!

Had tried strategy of just listening but that didn't work either. She accused me of not being interested in her. This has been happening for years.

I've now put record straight with my aunt, who was only hearing one side of the story. She also realised it isn't something new. She noted that for as long as she can remember, my mother's always had this "hang up" about her mother's lack of love.

I do hope my brother steps up, as much as he's allowed to. This lack of action has also been long-running.

Am trying to avoid stress because psoriasis is going from one leg but starting a flare up on other leg and elbows (again). Taking a step back is very much needed.

It’s possible her mother was not nurturing and your mother did feel unloved. Her mother’s generation did tend to be cold and children were to be seen and not heard. Is it just the two of them or did your mother have other siblings? Is your aunt older or younger than your mother?

Your mother may unknowingly be replicating the relationship she had with her mother in the way she relates to you. People do tend to pick up communication styles from their parents along with generational messages.

Complaints often mean “mom never taught me to...” and her mother’s generation often lacked in communication skills.

Thanks Open Eyes, your perception is exactly right.

Her mother was one of 9. From what's been said, it was typical working class family, probably with 4/5 children to one bedroom. Both of my great grandfathers worked in heavy industry. Paid on a Friday, in pub Friday and Saturday, enough money for roast dinner on Sunday then anything of value in pawn shop so they could eat for rest of week. Don't think either men reached 50. Weren't averse to domestic violence either, especially when under the influence of alcohol.

She claims not, but is exactly the same. The nasty streak over many years became more noticeable as I have grown up. When I've challenged things, that's probably cultivated the angst more. My brother just goes along with what she says. Facial expressions can be hidden on the phone!

Her mother's mother told all her daughters "not teaching you to cook, you'll pick it up when you get married". To her credit, my mother was a good cook (traditional rather than modern).

May seem awful to say, but I'm much calmer. Almost like shaking off the shackles....

Well if you can step back instead of absorbing it’s better for you. Your mom grew up in the late 30’s and so different in that generation.

thanks Open Eyes

Just read your comments on "People constantly blaming others". Where you describe your sister, it could be my sister-in-law and mother.

Mother has just phoned me and the subject of our problem came up again. She said I can visit and talk if I want to. I reiterated that nothing had changed; I would not be changing my stance. It appears she has made other arrangements for her shopping and other jobs I did for her.

After her chat with doctor on Thursday, she's now got a positive attitude. Sadly, it won't last. "Others" have advised her to think only about herself. Well, I know who they are. My brother, sister-in-law and aunt so of course, everything is great in the world! I chatted with my aunt last week and she listened but couldn't really offer advice on how to deal with the situation.

I am going to work on not absorbing all the negativity generated. I haven't felt well recently, so have a valid reason too. This pandemic has taught me one thing. Despite thinking it would generate common sense and empathy in my family, nothing has changed. One good thing has happened, someone who I thought I'd lost as a friend, has contacted me again. He's always a source of good advice too.

It’s good that you are working on not absorbing. It takes time to gain on developing that new skill. Let your mother make alternative plans too. See that as a positive.

Well, I visited today to collect money owed to me. Nothing has changed!

As I was about to leave, she started on again about the situation after I'd sat through all the things my brother is now doing for her. When asked if I had anything further to say I said no, my views on the subject are still the same. After repeating this about 4 times, I was again accused of showing no compassion. There was silence when I said sister-in-law's behaviour totally unacceptable and I wouldn't respond to emotional blackmail. There's just no recognition of this. Was told off for not phoning for six days; reminded her she also had a phone.

When asked if I was still going to order her medication, I said yes. I am not that heartless, but gave option for her to make alternative arrangements. Same with "lifeline" alarm. Now not happy that I've put the responsibility back on her.

All those positive changes she was going to make didn't last long.

You can be disappointed poshgirl. Right now though you are practicing not allowing yourself to absorb. Talking about emotional blackmail with someone that is as old as your mother that has practiced it pretty much all of her life is not going to get the recognition you desire. And try to keep in mind that any "change" at this point probably won't last as your mother is just too used to following the same pattern of behavior.

Open Eyes, thanks again!

I've channelled my energy into jobs around house and garden. Last Friday, I indulged in a hobby I hadn't been able to do because of lockdown. Really enjoyed it, except for mild sunburn

I do realise that she will not change. Suppose I'm expecting her to behave to my standards. All she can say when challenged is "I'm your mother, show me some respect". I do respect her for some things, but not her stance on the family rift.

I think what you want from her is for her to respect you. Unfortunately she doesn’t understand that and you end up walking away from her felling frustrated. This is emotional neglect that you are feeling and this has been an ongoing challenge for you when it comes to your mother.

However it sounds like your mother was emotionally neglected herself and that is actually common for her generation.

Thanks Open Eyes. That's exactly right!

Have been expecting an irate phone call from my brother but it hasn't happened, thankfully. I still have feelings of guilt but I must live my own life. Now to get back the person I used to be.....

Having not visited for about 4 weeks, we have spoken on the phone. The calls are usually tense.

The latest, to advise medication had arrived, was short. Was going to ask if I could visit over weekend but one comment was "just reminding you I still live here". Very welcoming!

It may be an awful thing to say but I don't want to feel forced to visit. My response was "okay". That's all I said. Am not about to relinquish control of my life again.

Phone call earlier from mother. Forty-five minutes duration, forty all about her.

In under five, she'd brought up subject of why I hadn't been in touch or visited. Of course, it's all my fault. When I walked out on her four weeks ago, I should have specified that I wouldn't be in touch again. Although she denied bringing up the main topic of our estrangement, it was obvious it would rear its head at some stage.

Reading another forum topic, I may be guilty of stonewalling. However, there's always two sides to any disagreement. As mentioned before, she cannot accept she's wrong in any way. When I explained at my age I shouldn't have to endure this hassle, she then turned the conversation round to all about her and her health. I then reminded her about what she'd said about not using her health as a reason for the unacceptable request. Then she blamed me for bringing up the subject again; reminded her that this is the cause of the problem. She said that despite how she's treated me, she's still my mother and I'm still her daughter. Yes, true, but that doesn't give her carte blanche to behave in this way. We all know the reasons for that.

Not really bothered about issues I've had (possibly lockdown related). Instead, she hardly drew breath in all of the above then proceeded to wish me well in everything I was doing now or in the future, as she didn't know if she'd ever see me again. As I've probably mentioned before, emotions have been suppressed for a number of years, as a coping mechanism. She doesn't understand that releasing them again has brought some welcome and some unwanted results.

Bottom line is damned if I do and damned if I don't!

“Bottom line is damned if I do and damned if I don't!”

^That’s right!

I also have a difficult relationship with my mother. I’ve come to the same conclusion. I now do for her what I want. Honestly, it’s working just fine. She acts like nothing happened every time once I call her again a few days after the latest friction, and I am learning to avoid the triggering conversations better. From what you describe, I think your mother does not let it go and guilts you. My advice is to not take the bait when she does.

I think at the root of it is the longing for our mothers’ love. There’s an uncomfortable emotion that lingers where we know we are not getting it no matter how much we do for them. It’s a no win with them. The love only lasts as long as your last favor done for them.

I’m learning to just let that emotion sit and accept the way it is, then let it pass. I’m literally giving myself hugs! Here’s a virtual one for you.

Thanks TishaBuv

Sorry to hear you're experiencing similar problems and thanks for your support.

Can't blame everything on lockdown, as her behaviour has gone on for years. My brother is her favourite, as I've alluded to before. Think I'm disappointed that after all the support I've given to her over the years, the list of everything I've ever done wrong is growing. Conveniently, she doesn't remember a lot of them and it's not due to age or dementia. Devious is a more appropriate description; just like her own mother.

It's felt strange not having any contact but I wanted to take a time out to see if she grasped why. Been a waste of time. You deserve the hugs, here's one from me

It’s a lesson in futility to expect other people to change who they are. What they say and how they behave will tell you who they are and they will react often negatively if someone wants them to change.

Open Eyes

Thanks. That sums it up perfectly!

What I forgot to include was because I didn't give a definitive reply to the question about when I would visit again, she decided she wouldn't see me again. Her "farewell speech" wished me well in everything I am doing or going to do.

Have now recalled the many times over the past 12-18 months that I've been accused of various things and been threatened that she was going to tell my brother. On one occasion I did call her bluff, saying fine. That wasn't the answer she expected. Of course, she dismisses all of these incidents as "not relevant".

I think the comment "damned if you do and damned if you don't" describes this very well!

It took me a while to figure out my older sister. I had to make some very hard decisions to maintain my mental health. My older sister is a very disordered person. And she is VERY addicted to DRAMA. To the point where it’s been embarrassing because of how out of control she got/gets.

Some individuals genuinely get addicted to the adrenaline that drama creates. It’s not unusual for this kind of person to also have other addictions as well. To them life is boring without that drama high and they don’t even realize they have this addiction.

So anytime my sister was around she always found some way of creating Drama. It did not even matter how unhealthy it was. Instead what mattered was this fix she got off of it.

All that began to matter to her was HER truth and she even claimed to have special powers. And she imagined things about others that were not true. Only HER reality mattered.

I can’t be around that kind of person as I find it much too draining and unpredictable. Honestly I think she was constantly living in constant drama addicted to the adrenaline it creates.

Thanks Open Eyes

You could be describing my mother. Always been a drama queen but of course, it's everyone else but her. This trait has manifested itself in many ways. Another thing that's been used against me when I've passed just a simple comment about something. A way of restoring the attention back to her. Maybe my mother is getting a fix from this behaviour too.

Many times I've had to listen to the story of my traumatic birth because yes, it was dramatic. Apparently, the police visited my grandmother but not sure of reason, as I was born in hospital. Unless my father was at work. I've never really wanted to know all gory details and that's been subject of criticism too. Other issues since then have been compartmentalised and any attempt to merge with other subjects has generated the comment about relevance. So the more drama, the better. Of course, the one used the most is crying, or pretending to.

I agree, this behaviour is too draining and unpredictable, although if experienced enough, the signs become more obvious. I know she wants me to have the same low self-esteem and because I won't succumb, she's made it a lifelong quest to belittle me. I've recently updated the document where I've written down this behaviour. Need to do again, although it makes very sad reading.

I am sorry that you are dealing with this. Unfortunately your mother is practicing unhealthy ways of getting attention. She is failing to recognize how she says things to guilt trip others for not supplying the attention she wants.

This behavior at this point given her age isn’t going to change.

Have you had other significant adult relationships, like a spouse/partner? Has your mother dominated your whole life?

After reading all I can about toxic, dysfunctional, disorders and such… all these behaviors we all describe are in all that literature. It’s textbook stuff.