[seesaw]

So, Andy is recovering from a groin strain. We had taken a few weeks off then started back up and he was doing well, but we finally got into the consult with the rehab vet and they want us to take more time off to let it heal more since he's still showing some signs of pain and then do some rehab to prevent reinjury and train properly.

The prognosis is good, and there is no reason at this stage to think that in a few months we can't return to agility together.

I discuss with my trainer, and of course, in her pessimistic fashion, she brings up almost immediately that I might have to retire Andy from agility. It's nothing new. She's not the biggest fan of Andy, so it doesn't surprise me that she would just want to give up.

I have a friend who also does agility with her dogs, and I express to her my frustration with my trainer jumping to that conclusion so quickly, and people making assumptions about Andy's enjoyment of agility, etc., and that it's upsetting to me because there is no indication we need to quit right now, and I want to focus on his healing so we can return.

So my friend decides to go into a diatribe, in her words "keep an open mind because she's saying this as a friend" then goes into a long diatribe about how maybe we should switch sports and she doesn't trust rehab and blah blah blah just continuing to lay it on exactly the thing that is frustrating me.

It's like telling someone who you ask for support something that is bothering you so they go and do that thing that is bothering you to you some more. And then they expect you to be happy about it.

So I tell her to stop and that it's very frustrating that she's putting her need to say her opinion over actually hearing what I'm saying and supporting me. So then she says some crap about how she is supporting me she's just not telling me what I want to hear. And obviously that is not what I'm asking for. I didn't ask her for her opinion or thoughts on Andy retiring. I told her I was frustrated that my trainer was jumping to this conclusion and that we have this uphill battle with certain people in the sport because my dog is a nonstandard breed.

So she calls me sensitive - oh there's the gaslighting - and continues to defend saying whatever she wants to say versus actually listening to what I'm saying.

So I call her out on that and say "I'm not any more sensitive than any other person. It's not fair to call me sensitive to defend your insensitivity." I really debated on how much to call her out for that, but I'm sorry I'm not sitting here and being called "sensitive" because I said something was frustrating me and then you go and do that exact thing on purpose to me. No.

And then I stepped away.

I really enjoy talking to her about agility stuff, but it's clear to me she's not a safe person. It's not the first time she's made off hand remarks that were microaggressions before. She once compared me to a friend of hers, saying that we were alike in personality, and yet she keeps referring to this friend and how we are alike because we are "big women". And it's just like not a necessary comment.

So I guess that's that with that "friend". I don't feel safe talking to her anymore.

[Yaowen]

Since this is a pattern of behavior and not just someone having a bad day, I think you are very wise to be thinking as you do about this person. Although I am not in your shoes and wouldn't want to trespass on the uniqueness of your experience, I suffer from anxiety and depression and have had to cut certain people out of my for the sake of my mental health.

Some people can become toxic through illness or upbringing or just plain ill will, but whatever the cause, being around such people is not very helpful. I am sorry that your "friend" was lacking in empathy, understanding and tact. Sometimes it takes a while to find out what bad habits people have since in the beginning, efforts are usually made to put on a good face.

Sadly when this "honeymoon phase" of a friendship wanes, peoples real strengths and weaknesses manifest themselves. I'm sorry you do not have a more kindly and compassionate friend, but I think your feelings are completely understandable.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Yaowen

Since this is a pattern of behavior and not just someone having a bad day, I think you are very wise to be thinking as you do about this person. Although I am not in your shoes and wouldn't want to trespass on the uniqueness of your experience, I suffer from anxiety and depression and have had to cut certain people out of my for the sake of my mental health.

Some people can become toxic through illness or upbringing or just plain ill will, but whatever the cause, being around such people is not very helpful. I am sorry that your "friend" was lacking in empathy, understanding and tact. Sometimes it takes a while to find out what bad habits people have since in the beginning, efforts are usually made to put on a good face.

Sadly when this "honeymoon phase" of a friendship wanes, peoples real strengths and weaknesses manifest themselves. I'm sorry you do not have a more kindly and compassionate friend, but I think your feelings are completely understandable.

Thank you, Yaowen, for your compassion. It's really frustrating that she thinks it's just "lip service" to support someone and hear their frustration, rather than say whatever it is, in her opinion, needs to be said. I mean, why not, "Seesaw, I'm sorry that you trainer is jumping to such drastic conclusions and being so pessimistic. I know how hard this is. I understand." How is that lip service? I don't think it is. I mean it was certainly not the time for her to launch into a diatribe about what it would mean for me to retire Andy, hypothetically. Like read the fricking room.

It's not being sensitive to be dealing with a health issue for a family member and to not appreciate people jumping to the worst conclusions about the outcome. I don't think that's being overly sensitive or sensitive. I think any normal person would not like that.

[unaluna]

Wow. I would never call you oversensitive. Ive seen you bend over backwards to accommodate other peoples weirdnesses, and a so-called oversensitive person would not do that.

And then her comment about you are just like my other fat friend? Im dying over here. Omg.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Wow. I would never call you oversensitive. Ive seen you bend over backwards to accommodate other peoples weirdnesses, and a so-called oversensitive person would not do that.

And then her comment about you are just like my other fat friend? Im dying over here. Omg.

Thanks, Unaluna. It was definitely a bit of passive aggressive gaslighting, and yes, I have forgiven other comments because there is a significant age difference between us, and as I said, I have mostly enjoyed her company and talking dogs with her.

But I'm not going to tip toe around people and be quiet when they say hurtful things or talk about things I find upsetting. If the response is to press me on that, then my boundary will simply be to remove myself from the relationship.

I learned a phrase to say in response though: I'm sorry my perfectly reasonable behavior irritates you. (HAHAHAHAH)

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by seesaw

I learned a phrase to say in response though: I'm sorry my perfectly reasonable behavior irritates you. (HAHAHAHAH)

Im stealing that!

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Im stealing that!

Oh, I learned quite a few phrases today in response to that statement now. But that was the only one that was safe for work.

[Open Eyes]

What this individual just showed you was her lack of ability to genuinely empathize with your needs. This is her lack, not yours and it’s always disappointing when someone we want to like fails to have this “quality” to them.

Gaslighting? Yes, there are people that have a fake way of looking like they have a true ability to genuinely empathize but they don’t. It’s always a disappointment when we discover this and it does tend to come when we could use a much more genuine response of assuring instead of critical put downs and close mindedness.

It’s always disappointing when we think someone has more then they actually have. She is lacking in self awareness which means having the ability to recognize how her response to you was showing disrespect.

I am with you in that there is nothing wrong with giving Andy more recovery time and ease him back into a program as he regains his physical ability back.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

What this individual just showed you was her lack of ability to genuinely empathize with your needs. This is her lack, not yours and it’s always disappointing when someone we want to like fails to have this “quality” to them.

Gaslighting? Yes, there are people that have a fake way of looking like they have a true ability to genuinely empathize but they don’t. It’s always a disappointment when we discover this and it does tend to come when we could use a much more genuine response of assuring instead of critical put downs and close mindedness.

It’s always disappointing when we think someone has more then they actually have. She is lacking in self awareness which means having the ability to recognize how her response to you was showing disrespect.

I am with you in that there is nothing wrong with giving Andy more recovery time and ease him back into a program as he regains his physical ability back.

The reason I say gaslighting is because it goes like this:

Me: this thing bothers me
Friend: Does that thing more.
Me: Why would you do that thing more that I said bothers me. That hurts my feelings.
Friend: It's your fault because you have feelings in the first place.
Me: Um, no.

It's gaslighting because instead of acknowledging that I said something bothers me, the other person makes it out to be my fault because it bothers me in the first place. We aren't talking about a comment she made NOT knowing it would bother me. She FULLY knew it would hurt me and continued on saying those things anyhow.

Turning the blame back on the "victim" because they happen to exist (as in this case, I mean because I'm a human being with feelings apparently that's why I'm hurt). We are all human beings with feelings. If you want to be in a relationship with another human being, you have to care about how they feel. That's the shift between acquaintance and friend.

If you're an acquaintance, I may not have as much care about what words I choose and what I say to you because I may care less about how you feel. (Personally I do care how I make anyone feel, but certainly we care more about how we make our friends feel.) If a friend, someone I say I care about and want them to be happy and healthy, tells me I said something that hurt their feelings, and appropriate response is not to tell them they are wrong - either in their feelings or in having feelings at all. The appropriate response is to actually care that this was the impact I had. I don't want my friends to feel bad by the things I say or do. This doesn't mean tiptoeing around, but it means having respect for how the other person feels and considering their feelings when you say or do things that concern them.

I grew up being taught by a family that never cared about how anyone else felt. There was no empathy or sympathy whatsoever. It took me time to really understand what empathy is. And in focusing on developing my own empathy, what I have really learned is that most people don't really have much empathy at all, even for the people they are close to.

[Open Eyes]

YES! I have struggled with this myself. Actually in ways that traumatized me badly, more than I realized.

I have been deeply disappointed many times in my life with people who lack in ability to show genuine consideration and care and respect.

[eskielover]

I have learned over the years that if I don't want to hear someone's "opinion" about something bothering me, then I don't discuss things that are bothering me with that person. I can't force them to be any different than they can force my thinking to change.

Bottom line, your good approach of following the recommendations of your vet with plenty of time for rehab, really doesn't even need to be discussed. Give it time to heal, rehab, & rebuild strength. Don't cross future bridges until the time comes (if the time comes). Your vet, & rehab person & Andy's progress is all your focus needs to be on.

Obviously all external input you have received has not been the "support" you are looking for. That should be a good indication to you not to go there for support.
Get it from within from the vet & rehab & Andy which is what really counts & not someone elses opinion about what the future might hold. Wisdom is learning what to share & what not to share & learning when our best support comes from within & not from external sources.

I had a friend who always irritated me when I shared anything I was going through because she thought she had ALL the solurions & I should listen. I learned not so share anything I was personally going through with her & over the years have not even talked to her in over a year. I don't miss conversations with her at all & we did have a lot of other things in common. It is all a learning process about who & what we communicate to others

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by eskielover

I have learned over the years that if I don't want to hear someone's "opinion" about something bothering me, then I don't discuss things that are bothering me with that person. I can't force them to be any different than they can force my thinking to change.

Bottom line, your good approach of following the recommendations of your vet with plenty of time for rehab, really doesn't even need to be discussed. Give it time to heal, rehab, & rebuild strength. Don't cross future bridges until the time comes (if the time comes). Your vet, & rehab person & Andy's progress is all your focus needs to be on.

Obviously all external input you have received has not been the "support" you are looking for. That should be a good indication to you not to go there for support.
Get it from within from the vet & rehab & Andy which is what really counts & not someone elses opinion about what the future might hold. Wisdom is learning what to share & what not to share & learning when our best support comes from within & not from external sources.

I had a friend who always irritated me when I shared anything I was going through because she thought she had ALL the solurions & I should listen. I learned not so share anything I was personally going through with her & over the years have not even talked to her in over a year. I don't miss conversations with her at all & we did have a lot of other things in common. It is all a learning process about who & what we communicate to others

Eskie, well definitely I learned those people are not people I can discuss this with for support. But I do want to discuss it with dog people I know because I want to know how other people have dealt with injuries, and also, yes, it's upsetting for me that my dog might be hurt and anxiety provoking, etc. I did end up talking to a few people who were very supportive, understood my fears, and told me about their experiences with their dogs having an injury.

As you said, and I agree, now I know those people aren't safe to have discussions beyond pleasantries with. One of the people I did talk to encouraged me to think about distancing myself from some of my current agility group. She pointed out that a lot of these groups (happens with horses too, right) get to be toxic and judgmental, and it's better to be around people with the kind of mentality and attitude and spirit that you also want to reflect.

I agree with her AND I also know that you can't avoid some of the attitude/toxicity. I think the best thing is to get some distance and set some boundaries for myself. My trainer, in particular, was there for me through Astro's passing, so it's not all bad, but she definitely has a different attitude about Andy.

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by seesaw

Eskie, well definitely I learned those people are not people I can discuss this with for support. But I do want to discuss it with dog people I know because I want to know how other people have dealt with injuries, and also, yes, it's upsetting for me that my dog might be hurt and anxiety provoking, etc. I did end up talking to a few people who were very supportive, understood my fears, and told me about their experiences with their dogs having an injury.

As you said, and I agree, now I know those people aren't safe to have discussions beyond pleasantries with. One of the people I did talk to encouraged me to think about distancing myself from some of my current agility group. She pointed out that a lot of these groups (happens with horses too, right) get to be toxic and judgmental, and it's better to be around people with the kind of mentality and attitude and spirit that you also want to reflect.

I agree with her AND I also know that you can't avoid some of the attitude/toxicity. I think the best thing is to get some distance and set some boundaries for myself. My trainer, in particular, was there for me through Astro's passing, so it's not all bad, but she definitely has a different attitude about Andy.

It is important for us to read the people we associate with because we are the ones who have to take control of ourselves. No matter how bad we want people to be the way we want them to be, the fact is they are going to be who & how they are. Our responsibility to be aware & distance ourselves from people who don't meet our needs or values, not to change them to be what we need

[MuseumGhost]

For whatever reason (could be simple, could be enormously complex) that person is best avoided.

It took me years to understand that once someone reveals these kinds of tendencies to you, it's best to simply walk away. They are signaling who they REALLY ARE to you, with big, unmistakable signals. Trust that.

There are plenty of other people who would do the opposite---they would listen to you, and try to see your point of view, and not argue with you, out of hand. It's a shame she is this way. But it's really her loss.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

YES! I have struggled with this myself. Actually in ways that traumatized me badly, more than I realized.

I have been deeply disappointed many times in my life with people who lack in ability to show genuine consideration and care and respect.

I think it's okay to have that initial disappointment, even upset, when you discover someone you thought is safe is not, but as Eskie has mentioned, once they show you who they are, best to believe them.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by eskielover

It is important for us to read the people we associate with because we are the ones who have to take control of ourselves. No matter how bad we want people to be the way we want them to be, the fact is they are going to be who & how they are. Our responsibility to be aware & distance ourselves from people who don't meet our needs or values, not to change them to be what we need

I'm not trying to change anybody. But sometimes people don't know that something they said is hurtful. If I tell someone something they said/did hurt or upset me, and their response is to apologize, then that's all fine. But if their response is to turn it back on me, then what that says to me is that they lack empathy and don't care how they make the people in their life feel. I don't try to change that. I walk away.

[seesaw]

Originally Posted by MuseumGhost

For whatever reason (could be simple, could be enormously complex) that person is best avoided.

It took me years to understand that once someone reveals these kinds of tendencies to you, it's best to simply walk away. They are signaling who they REALLY ARE to you, with big, unmistakable signals. Trust that.

There are plenty of other people who would do the opposite---they would listen to you, and try to see your point of view, and not argue with you, out of hand. It's a shame she is this way. But it's really her loss.

I couldn't agree more. I'm just disappointed because I did enjoy her company and conversation in many ways, but I do NOT need to be around people that I call "friends" where I have to be careful what I'll talk about because they are uncaring or unfeeling or unempathetic. It's best to distance and keep things superficial.

Remember, unless I plan to give up agility entirely I will see these people at trials, so it's good to be polite and on friendly terms. Otherwise, whatevs.