[reach]

My son called my husband a jerk again. This happened several times before. And he is only 9 years old.

WORST of it all is that my husband did nothing!

I told my husband many times that he cannot let him do that, that he needs to tell him, give him a big consequence. By letting my son get away with that is like teaching him that it is o.k. thing to do to.

Although my husband did handled a couple of repeated similar episodes in a sort of mild manner, today he did nothing when my son said that to him again.

It just drive me completely mad to see my husband in such apathy. It is just utterly unbelievable and inconceivable that a man could be so passive, so spineless. Even when I questioned him again and again "why don't you do something about it?" and saying "Don't you know by not standing up for yourself you are making others disrespect you." "Not only your son, but me as well!" "I cannot understand why, can you explain?"

And he would look at me blank and say nothing. Even when I chewed him up like - "Don't you have any spine of your own." "You are not a man." "No parents would say this is right." "If you don't believe me, go talk to ten parents...."

All he did was mumbled softly "what do you expect me to do?"

That man is so DEAD. Nothing could stir him up, no matter how you chew him up - "you're so DEAD, I cannot believe it", "no woman would respect a spineless man."

I know I sounded so mean but God please help me. No matter how I bang him, pushed him, I still can't put life into him.

On the other side of it, as I was writing this, it dawn on me that I have married my father. And that I have attracted this same sort of man in my life. And I probably have subconscious embedded anger over my father passiveness.

Ya, I think it is my issue too - so what could we do to break this pattern.

I really appreciate your feedback and please forgive me for being so cruel. I am usually a very compassionate person.

[Malady156]

Could you perhaps set your personal feelings aside and MODEL respect toward your husband for your son to emulate?

Just a thought. People do not always act for the reasons we assume them to act (or not act, as the case may be). You ASSUME him to be spineless and apathetic. Perhaps you misconstrue him entirely. Perhaps he has real feelings of his own he happens to be dealing with, which have NOTHING to do with what you project onto him. Perhaps he could really use a PARTNER right now in his life, you know, someone on HIS side who cares how HE feels.

Again, just thoughts. Obviously Mal does not know either one of you so this would be all its own speculation and projection. But perhaps worth thinking about nonetheless. At any rate, could any HARM come from you modeling, with your attitude, speech and actions, respect toward your husband for the sake of showing your son how it should be done? It sure seems he must be learning the disrespect somewhere, and it would not be from your husband, but from what you posted, it sounds like he'd be learning that from you.

[ihateit]

Originally Posted by reach

My son called my husband a jerk again. This happened several times before. And he is only 9 years old.

WORST of it all is that my husband did nothing! If your husband does nothing, why are you doing nothing? By you doing nothing it also shows that it's ok by you for your son to do this. My wife has PTSD and is sometimes very apathetic toward the children, and I will step in and let them know what's up.

I told my husband many times that he cannot let him do that, that he needs to tell him, give him a big consequence. By letting my son get away with that is like teaching him that it is o.k. thing to do to. Again, if your husband is a passive person, and there could be many reasons why he is this way, then you need to step in and let the child know what's what...

Although my husband did handled a couple of repeated similar episodes in a sort of mild manner, today he did nothing when my son said that to him again. I have to wonder why your son is doing this as well, my daughter is 9, and never once has she even muttered anything bad about me or my wife, not to our faces, and I really don't think she thinks it either, but...all kids do this from time to time. Seems to me though there is some sort of catalyst for his behaviour you're leaving out...or maybe Mal is correct, he is emulating you.

It just drive me completely mad to see my husband in such apathy. It is just utterly unbelievable and inconceivable that a man could be so passive, so spineless. Even when I questioned him again and again "why don't you do something about it?" and saying "Don't you know by not standing up for yourself you are making others disrespect you." "Not only your son, but me as well!" "I cannot understand why, can you explain?"

And he would look at me blank and say nothing. Even when I chewed him up like - "Don't you have any spine of your own." "You are not a man." "No parents would say this is right." "If you don't believe me, go talk to ten parents...."

All he did was mumbled softly "what do you expect me to do?"

That man is so DEAD. Nothing could stir him up, no matter how you chew him up - "you're so DEAD, I cannot believe it", "no woman would respect a spineless man."

I know I sounded so mean but God please help me. No matter how I bang him, pushed him, I still can't put life into him. You are being mean. I wouldn't let you talk to me like that once, let alone over and over. There is no reason to treat anyone like that. You make them feel worse about themselves, and 100 - 1 he already has self esteem problems, from the way you have explained him to us. I am a very calm and laid back person now (didn't used to be), but every time my wife even thinks about raising her voice I calmly look at her and say honey...and she apologizes, no one deserves to be treated like crap.

On the other side of it, as I was writing this, it dawn on me that I have married my father. And that I have attracted this same sort of man in my life. And I probably have subconscious embedded anger over my father passiveness.

Ya, I think it is my issue too - so what could we do to break this pattern. What can you do to break this pattern? Have a sit down talk with him, and start out with, "Honey, I love you, but things need to change." Not belittle and berate him. Tell him, nicely, how you feel, and tell him you need him to express his feelings, needs and wants, and why he does what he does. You may very well get an answer you don't understand, like, "I don't know why I do the things I do." I get that a lot, but I understand why, and now I think you need to understand why.

I really appreciate your feedback and please forgive me for being so cruel. I am usually a very compassionate person.

I am no therapist, not psychoanalyst...but your husband would seem to have some sort of disorder, and needs therapy. You can't help him alone, especially by treating him the way you do, it only make matters worse.

I suggested the sit down talk, and during that talk I would bring up the fact that he needs to go to a therapist, there are a few disorders that would cause him to be this way, and the therapist can work it out for him, and then you can learn about what makes him tick and why he does what he does, while he gets better.

GL and God bless!

I removed this as I wanted it as a whole and not edited.

[KathyM]

Hi reach

I'm with Ihateit on this one. My sister was married to a man like that, and she treated him in the same manner. She never was able to turn him into the husband and father she wanted him to be for their son. But, after 24 years he finally did grow a backbone - he left her for another woman, and said it's because she makes him feel like a man. Their child is grown now and off on his own - my sister is all by herself.

If your son sees you treating your husband like dirt (being mean), you are setting the example for him to do the same towards his father. It could be an explosive situation when he becomes a teenager or bigger/stronger than the both of you. When your son becomes a man and takes a wife of his own, would you want your future daughter-in-law to treat your son as you treat your husband?

You sound like a very strong woman. I think you have the ability to set your son straight when it comes to showing respect. Regardless of your husband's character and personality, he is still the "head of the household." When your son has his own home and can successfully raise his own family without your help, then he'll have a right to call his dad (or you) a jerk if he wants. Hopefully, by then he'll realize how difficult it is to raise children.

I'm not a professional either. I'm just a wife and mother offering you my opinion.

[reach]

Originally Posted by Malady156

Could you perhaps set your personal feelings aside and MODEL respect toward your husband for your son to emulate?

Just a thought. People do not always act for the reasons we assume them to act (or not act, as the case may be). You ASSUME him to be spineless and apathetic. Perhaps you misconstrue him entirely. Perhaps he has real feelings of his own he happens to be dealing with, which have NOTHING to do with what you project onto him. Perhaps he could really use a PARTNER right now in his life, you know, someone on HIS side who cares how HE feels.

Again, just thoughts. Obviously Mal does not know either one of you so this would be all its own speculation and projection. But perhaps worth thinking about nonetheless. At any rate, could any HARM come from you modeling, with your attitude, speech and actions, respect toward your husband for the sake of showing your son how it should be done? It sure seems he must be learning the disrespect somewhere, and it would not be from your husband, but from what you posted, it sounds like he'd be learning that from you.

I agree it's good to model good behavior, though it is easier said than done. It's hard for one to put oneself in others shoes.

It is sharp on both ends - I don't think we could entirely blame one side for any troubles. I admit my mistakes and I am continuously working on myself to be a better human. We all have our pitfall.

Others could not do it to you if you don't let them. I certainly think he could stand up for himself whether it is me who disrespect him or his son.

[reach]

Originally Posted by KathyM

Hi reach

I'm with Ihateit on this one. My sister was married to a man like that, and she treated him in the same manner. She never was able to turn him into the husband and father she wanted him to be for their son. But, after 24 years he finally did grow a backbone - he left her for another woman, and said it's because she makes him feel like a man. Their child is grown now and off on his own - my sister is all by herself.

If your son sees you treating your husband like dirt (being mean), you are setting the example for him to do the same towards his father. It could be an explosive situation when he becomes a teenager or bigger/stronger than the both of you. When your son becomes a man and takes a wife of his own, would you want your future daughter-in-law to treat your son as you treat your husband?

You sound like a very strong woman. I think you have the ability to set your son straight when it comes to showing respect. Regardless of your husband's character and personality, he is still the "head of the household." When your son has his own home and can successfully raise his own family without your help, then he'll have a right to call his dad (or you) a jerk if he wants. Hopefully, by then he'll realize how difficult it is to raise children.

I'm not a professional either. I'm just a wife and mother offering you my opinion.

I know this is not what most logical person would do - I am increasing feeling like leaving. I know I need to get help though. At the moment, I am alternating between anger, repent and forgiveness.

[Sad In TX]

I wonder why are you so angry? Why are you projecting your anger towards your father on him?
I think you need to step back and look within as to what the root of the real problem is, and not be so hard on your husband. He probably simply isn't as outspoken as you are, and you need to let him deal with things as he sees fit. Like someone else said, if you yell at him and say these things in front of your son, why would he treat him any differently than you are?

I know it's frustrating not have him stand up for himself, but to demean him for not doing so just makes him withdraw more and makes him feel like crap. No one gets encouragement from someone who yells at them, no matter what the reason.

I think you need to calm down and reread what you wrote. Would you like someone saying such things to you? I know it's easier said than done, but try not to react to him with such animosity. By doing this, you are reinforcing your son's behavior and letting him know that it IS ok for him to demean his father.

I was irrationally angry myself last week, and was thinking of leaving. But stepping back I realized that I was just being a jerk myself, and apologized profusely.

You gotta think about how you would feel when you talk to others like that. How would you feel if the roles were reversed?
I hope you and your husband work things out. I think a simple talk between the two of you would help. It's funny how wrapped we get in everything else and forget about those we live with. I've been guilty of the same.
Take care.

All I see and hear is a frustrated woman, someone at the end of her tether who could do with some help with the familys situation.

[Pomegranate]

The question is what can YOU do to break this pattern. He may not be willing or capable of participating in your idea for change at all.

Trying to force someone to change is always an effort in futility. People only change when they WANT to. Your efforts to force or control him just counteract what you hope to achieve.

You are your's son's parent. You can tell him that you will not allow him to talk to his father disrespectfully. If both you and your son start treating your husband with respect, concern and understanding, he might start feeling like he deserves it. He might come to expect it.

You sound like you are very angry with your husband. Not matter how much you try to hide or deny your anger, your son and your husband do feel it and pick up on it. Maybe you should try seeing a therapist about the problems you are having in your marriage. It may be all his fault, but often professional therapists are able to help you change your behavior and that helps or gives the other person the opportunity to change.

[KathyM]

Hi Reach

My son became a handful when he was a teenager, and we were dealing with a lot of issues at home too. We met with a family counselor/psychologist. He met with our son privately, in case our son had any issues to discuss, and he met with us as a family.

It was helpful for all of us to understand the individual burdens we carry and how best to deal with them as a family. It was helpful to have a knowledgeable third party present to give us some helpful advice. My son gained greater insight on what it was we wanted from him and, more importantly, why. We gained greater insight as to why he was being such a brat and what he needed from us.

I know what it's like to be at your wit's end. I also know what it's like to have a 9-yr-old boy anxious to become a man.

I hope you'll be able to rekindle your relationship with your husband. If not, you gotta do what you gotta do. It was painful for my sister, but she's recovering and getting back out in the world.

[reach]

Thanks for all your replies. I am very sensitive when I am angry and things sink in better when I am not. I think therapy is the way to go. Thanks again.

[reach]

Originally Posted by Pomegranate

The question is what can YOU do to break this pattern. He may not be willing or capable of participating in your idea for change at all.

Trying to force someone to change is always an effort in futility. People only change when they WANT to. Your efforts to force or control him just counteract what you hope to achieve.

You are your's son's parent. You can tell him that you will not allow him to talk to his father disrespectfully. If both you and your son start treating your husband with respect, concern and understanding, he might start feeling like he deserves it. He might come to expect it.

You sound like you are very angry with your husband. Not matter how much you try to hide or deny your anger, your son and your husband do feel it and pick up on it. Maybe you should try seeing a therapist about the problems you are having in your marriage. It may be all his fault, but often professional therapists are able to help you change your behavior and that helps or gives the other person the opportunity to change.

You are right, I can't force him to change, when I am angry I do act irrationally. This is what I need to work on. I did apologized to him usually afterward.

Yes you are right, I am increasingly angry because I feel that he is not emotionally or physically available. Nothing move unless I push, I just feel he is so dead. No emotion, no passion. I do not know how to handle it and I know my reaction does not help. Somehow I let it go out of control. I could see my weakness and admit it to him and apologized. I know the areas I need to work on. however, top with the stress of handling our kids, thing is getting worst. I feel so trapped and my feeling for him and staying in the marriage is dying a slow death. I need to go look for a good therapist.

Thanks again all for your feedback.