Trying to get out

I am so afraid of how inevitably angry he will be, and also scared that he'll leave me.

I don't know anything about your relationship, of course, but I don't think you've committed a leavable offense . It's ok for partners to be angry at each other. Two people will never see things the same way. But in a relationship, part of the work is perhaps to figure out how to work through the anger. If it's not anger about this, it will be about something else in the future (if indeed, there is anger - one of my partners was very understanding, the other was jealous, but hated the T, not me), and I think it's important to focus on the relationship issues rather than the specific question of the T.
Perhaps your husband will see that your intentions are good given that you left T1.

And I'm glad to hear you can breathe etc! Good work

I hope it lasts. The last three weeks have been absolute torture.

T2 just kept reminding me over and over and OVER again and AGAIN how bad T1 was at his job--just kept bringing up ****ed up stuff he did over and over again and reminding me how it made me feel. That was helpful.

I am SO scared to tell my husband, but I agree that keeping it inside is destroying me. I am a terrible liar and it rips me up inside.

There will be good days and bad probably. I was able to find a really good therapist and she has been absolutely great with the type of emotional communication she has given me about how I felt about him. For the first time I felt that I wouldn't feel the pain forever. I can't exactly explain what she did to make me feel this way, but it's good you have T2 helping you through this. It's impossible almost to do on your own I feel.

After about 3 months, I finally started to have days where I would go without crying, where I started to feel a bit more resilient. Then after another month, a few days might go by without feeling depressed and sad or crying. It is getting better all the time. I identify a lot also with what precaryous wrote. It will get better for you too. Maybe slowly, and you absolutely need to have the right kind of support, but this is something you can try to get for yourself.

Another thing - I find my feelings about him have been very much influenced by changes in the rest of my life. These will be different for you, but in my case for example, I broke up with my partner and started dating again. Up till this time, I had been with only 4-5 people and my T played a huge role in my head as one of the people I had been in love with. As I started seeing more and more people, and those relationships would grow and then wither, I began to see him also as just an ordinary person with who I had had a kind of relationship which grew and then it withered...I don't know how to express it, but more and more, he seemed like just another one of the guys I dated. It didn't work out, but I wasn't heartbroken over it. That's not to say there isn't a deep place in my heart where he has a place, in a way that no one else does, but it doesn't hurt as much.

btw, what is it about your husband that makes you think he will be angry?

I had feelings for another man who isn't him, and continued to see that man and give him large amounts of our money (of which we have very little) for years because I wanted to spend time with him. I also brought our baby to sessions with him for 6 months before I started really talking about the transference. Then I talked about my sexual fantasies with this man and thought about him all the time and snapped at my husband day and night because he wasn't T1 and spent all of my time lost in a fantasy with him.

I feel like I had an emotional affair.

Not sure if your H will be the same way, but I had a sort of one-sided emotional affair with a younger guy in grad school, and H wasn't all that bothered by it. I mean, a bit, but not to the point of considering leaving. He's struggled some with my transference for marriage counselor, especially when I thought it was erotic (he's more puzzled by it now that I've realized it's mostly paternal), but MC explaining about transference (and reassuring him nothing could or would happen there) helped him understand and be OK with it. So I do think T2 explaining it to your H might help. Or...if you're worried about the ganged-up on thing, would it be possible for you to go with him to his T? Either before or after you told him about it?

Oh, so part of my point here in emotional vs. physical. So I did cheat on H with a one-night stand about a year and a half ago (and I've been plagued with guilt ever since...), which I told him about a few days later (after lots of phone/text support from T and MC). That made him think about kicking me out, but he ended up changing his mind when we met for our first MC session after that, if I was willing to work on it. So he was much more bothered by a physical infidelity, even though it was a one-night thing without an emotional component. I feel like guys tend to be that way. Whereas I'd be much more bothered if he had an emotional affair...

Since your husband is seeing his own therapist, have you thought about talking to him about transference in the general sense to get his understanding as to what it is, types, how it manifests and such?

You could bring it up maybe by saying something like... my new T has been talking to me about this concept called transference, what's your take on it.

Speaking of which, when I first started thinking about my T all the time... I felt like I was some how not there for my wife. I eventually talked to her about the concept of transference. She doesn't get it but accepts that it is part of what is going on with me. For me, I'd say 90-95% of the time it is purely maternal transference. However, there is that 5-10% of the time or periods of time, where it becomes romantic and even a couple of time erotic. I then say to myself... T get out of my head. In one of those states (before we had any touch what so ever), the concept of just touching her (a handshake) started to become magical or filled with an electric element. I was relieved that once we did shake hands, nothing like that happened. It was just 2 people shaking hands.

I've been writing so many threads on this board for so long, I don't even know what's included in this one, but do you know about what happened when he touched my hand? It was shortly after I started seeing him. He stroked the back of my hand with his finger--twice, while we were putting some books back on the shelf--it was part of a ritual we had started. I had an EXTREME sexual reaction to it--a five day sexual reaction to it. My body was pulsing wildly all over for days. That's where this all started. When I told T about it, I told him that I'd been afraid to tell him all this time because I was afraid that HE'D be afraid to be close to me or afraid that our hands would touch when I gave him his check. That's when he said "Would you like to hold hands right now?" That was the day he told me that we couldn't be together physically but we could still "be together mentally, emotionally and spiritually" and that he "would never lie to you. I will hold your heart tenderly in my hands."

I was high for days off of it. That's when things really went south.

The past two days the intense feelings of longing for T1 have waned--since my last session with T2 who was able to knock a bit of sense into me. Now, I'm just overwhelmed with shame and guilt. I feel like a real piece of **** for what I've done. And I did it for nothing. I gave this asshole tens of thousands of dollars, told him my wild sexual fantasies about him, have thought about him during sex for 3.5 years, and would have cheated on my husband with him in a hot second.

I don't know if I'll ever be able to tell my husband. I am SO ashamed.

You shouldn't beat yourself up. When you are in therapy you are in a vulnerable state and it is very easy to be exploited - that's why everyone is so appalled at how T1 behaved.
It was T1's responsibility to protect you from letting things get out of hand and doing things you would end up regretting. I'm sure that almost all therapists have a client at some point who develops transference, but in the vast majority of cases the therapist keeps things under control and doesn't let it become such a dangerous and unhealthy situation like this did.

Really hating myself tonight. Right in this moment I don't think I'll be ever to tell my husband. And it's going to seriously affect our sex life as well. I've thought about T1 during sex for 3.5 years. Now when I think about him I feel sick. I feel like my life is pretty wrecked.

T2 says he has to be reported. I feel like if I tell my husband he'll insist on reporting as well. I feel like it'll just get denied and I'll be humiliated once again as I have been for years in this situation. I can't believe how dumb I've been.

And there IS still longing for him. What a **** show.

I feel really trapped. I don't know why so many bad things happen to me. Sometimes I think my whole life is a mistake and I don't belong here.

If T2 wants to report T1, that's up to him. But you don't have to be involved at all.
This is your life. Don't let T2 pressure you into doing something you know will bring more drama. He won't have much to report if you don't participate or give your consent to release your information.

I disagree with T2 when he said you were wrong not to tell your husband. He is not supposed to be judging, he's supposed to be your T.

Please find a female T3 who can help you with this.

"T2 says he has to be reported."

NO he doesn't- not by you. .....

Seven women came forward and complained about the Pdoc I sued. Only THREE of us gave statements to the medical licensing board. I am the only one who had a civil case.

FOUR women CHOSE not to be involved.
You do not have to be involved. You do not have to give permission for T2 to release your records to ANYONE.

YOU get to choose.

Ramona, I am not sure my assessment is correct, but isn't T2 a bit manipulative as well? If I were you, I would get away from that whole bunch and start anew with a new therapist (not a referral from the old ones) if you feel you need more therapy. Or maybe take a break from therapy altogether and try something else to help you heal, like a local support group?

I agree with this. When I cheated on my H (one-night stand) and was distraught about it, neither my T or even my marriage counselor said I had to tell H. In fact, T was even advising AGAINST telling him at first, because she thought all it would do was hurt him. When I questioned her about it (because I thought she was annoyed that I told him), she later said she wanted me to have time to be prepared if he were to kick me out.

MC was just supportive and listened (phone calls and texts). At one point, as I was agonizing over whether to tell him or not (and clearly leaning toward telling him), MC did say something like, "Think about what you want your marriage to be based on." Which helped clinch my decision to tell. He very easily could have said that as our marriage counselor, he couldn't in good conscience keep the secret or have refused to keep seeing us if I didn't tell. But he didn't. (Yes, I know many people might say he acted incorrectly here, but he seemed to go by keeping what H and I said to him, whether together or individually, as confidential).

Ramona, the fact that your individual T is telling you that you have to tell your H also seems to me like he's being too judgmental and telling you what to do. Which isn't really supposed to be the role of a therapist. I have to wonder if, as a guy (don't know if he's married or not), he's maybe subconsciously putting himself in your H's shoes and thinking for him rather than for you?

It's one thing if you initially said you knew you needed to tell your H, and he helped come up with ways for you to do that, like offering to have him come to a session with you. But it sounds like this is all coming from T2, not from you. It's like HE is trying to make you feel guilty about it, which isn't right at all. Hm...this makes me think he's putting some of the blame on you, rather than all on T1 where it belongs (since he's the authority figure and the one who is supposed to hold the boundaries and keep you safe).

I agree that you should find an uninvolved T, preferably a female one, to talk to about this. Someone who will just be there to support YOU and help you figure out what you want/need to do--not tell you what to do regarding telling H or reporting T1.

Don't let t2 undermine your authority. Again, you don't have to report t1 if you don't want to. The only thing you should be focusing on is you and your life...not t1's life. Only once you emotionally disconnect from t1 will you know if reporting him is right for you or not.

You don't need an incredible amount of stress and confusion being added to your already highly distressing situation. T2 should recognize this. Have you considered any further changing your t2 time at least once or twice so that you can try out that co-dependents anonymous meeting on Wednesday night?

Thanks all for your thoughtful responses. I am completely back at the bottom of the hole again today. I had a pretty good day and a half after seeing T2 on Wednesday--the first relief I'd felt at ALL since leaving T1. I felt OK. T2 said he thinks I should tell my husband because not telling him is what's really ripping me up inside and he thinks it will ultimately bring me some relief--that keeping this secret from the person that I'm closest to is what's killing me and ripping up my intestines.

I think I felt a little better after Wednesday night because he helped me shake some of my adoration for T1, saying that in real life, he's not some smooth guy in a nice suit sitting around reading Rumi poetry--that he's a dork in dad shorts and sandals with pulled up socks just fumbling through life like everyone else. T2 also said he didn't think I would have ever cheated with T1 if given the opportunity. I don't agree with him on that--I think I would have gone for it, but I did have a realization Thursday morning that right NOW I wouldn't--that if T1 called for me to have some illicit affair I wouldn't go to him now. And that made me feel a bit better.

But no, I don't think I can tell my husband. It definitely IS ripping me up inside to lie all the time, and it also really makes it clear to me why I'm so snappy to my husband all the time and why I dread the weekends when he's home--I can't stand to be around him because I'm lying to him ALL the time.

I've contact a female T3, but she's extremely busy and took a couple days to get back to me and now we're playing phone tag.

I feel REALLY low today--and I'm back to longing for T1 again.

Then I went to my mom group and another one of the moms (who I REALLY genuinely like) just booked a huge national commercial that she gets to be in with a celebrity. I've been auditing for FOUR YEARS and haven't booked the crappiest little thing. I know I'm supposed to be happy for her but it was a real kick in the heart and totally knocked me over the edge when I was teetering.

Now I'm at a Starbucks trying to get some boring work done and stay away from my husband as long as possible.

My thoughts are that your dislike for your husband is not entirely due to what happened with T1. I don't think you started to dislike your husband because you liked T1. I think you let yourself like T1 because there are things about your husband/marriage that piss the hell out of you. (Sorry for being blunt and the usual disclaimer - I know next to nothing about you). I think what would be useful is to examine for yourself what is it about your marriage you feel unhappy about and get to the point where you can talk about this with your husband. As a hypothetical - you might say to your husband - I don't really feel turned on by you, we need to do more to keep the spark alive. I find that I get sexually excited by thoughts of other men, and then we have good sex. What do you think could be missing in our relationship that I don't feel directly excited by you? Maybe we're bored? Maybe it's the same old way over and over? Maybe I feel I haven't explored other people enough?

Whatever....

My point is - yes, you have to deal with the feelings about T1. But I think what is killing you is that you hate your life as it is and do not really know how to change it or what to change so that you would be happy AND healthy. Again, at this point, with regard to your marriage, I think its a bit irrelevant whether it was T1 or someone else. It's the things missing in the marriage you need to address.

And if I'm way off, please don't hesitate someone, to say so.

Well, there's a lot of things I hate about my life that I can't change: I'm in student loan debt for life for a Master's Degree I'll never use, we live in a tiny apartment because we live in such an expensive city we can't afford to move. I hate my job but can't afford to leave because it pays me for doing very little and lets me work from home and childcare costs are astronomical where I live. And I love my husband very much but am not sexually attracted to him. T1 turned on all of these things in me that made me sexually attracted to my husband again--for the first time in like 10 years.

My husband is annoying in lots of ways that people just get on your nerves after you've been together in a small space for lots of time. He adores me, is VERY sexually attracted to me, and frequently tells me how beautiful and attractive I am.

But I want it from T1. Not him. I don't know how to change that.

I would say the first step is to talk about that last sentence to someone - either him or a therapist - a lot. Second, I think that although T1 made you realize this and it is him you desire, he is not the unique one that you will feel about in this way. I can't be 100% sure about this of course, but I detect in you a kind of resiliency that makes me think you will find a way out of all this and feel the same kind of attraction for someone else some day.

You say you don't know how to change it. The first step is to imagine what it would be like if you did. Can you imagine being divorced? Just imagine it. Can you imagine if you had an open relationship? Put aside the practicalities for a minute and just imagine what it would be like. Can you imagine actually being frank with your husband and saying you're not sure what the reason is, but you find yourself sexually attracted to other people and you'd like to talk about it to him and understand why, because it bothers you. What if he were to say - that's totally normal, I am too. Let's tell each other what we think about other people. I'm not saying this is how it will go. But you need to be able to talk about stuff for anything to change, unless you want to take unilateral action like walking out.

Student loans suck blech - hate this ****ing country sometimes.

I miss Eric. That's T1's name. He is Eric. I wish I'd never ever ever ever EVER stopped seeing him. I wish I'd never put up a fight and just taken the crumbs he offered me. I miss him SO much. I wonder if he's forgotten about me already.

I WOULD go to him right now if he called. But he won't.

If I got run over by a truck he would probably be relieved because it would mean I was off his plate and never report him. He doesn't know what he did to my heart. He isn't a monster. Just ignorant. Doesn't know what he did to me.

I don't want other men or an open relationship with my husband. I just want Eric.

All those thoughts hurt a lot.

I didn't mean that you want those things specifically, my point was that eventually you'll have to address your marriage, life etc in addition to (and maybe in order to) dealing with your feelings about him.

He does know what he did to you, Ramona. You have told him.

He's not a monster - but he is a lot of bad things. Stupid, arrogant, manipulative, self-centred, dismissive... nuts.