Can one "insignificant" thought change your whole life?

Can one seemingly innocent or insignificant thought and/or prayer as a child change your whole take on life?

When I was about 15-16, I had a thought once, that if I imagined the worst possible outcome of any of my decisions, then the reality would be that if I went ahead with that particular decision, odds were the final outcome would never be as bad as I could imagine. Looking back I feel like I set myself up for a lifetime of total misery and self-destructive behaviours. Or was that thinking pattern already there because of illness, and would have just eventually manifested itself anyway?

What about a prayer? At 10 or 11, I asked God to spare my brothers and sisters pain and allow them a happy life (I think the constant family turmoil was weighing too heavily on me), and in exchange I would accept their emotional burdens upon myself.

What beautiful innocence, I often think to myself (at least about the prayer). But, I often think too, just how much of an impact these thoughts/prayers may have had on my psyche. Is it possible for a thought to have such a powerful affect like a traumatic event would? Or am I, again, just grasping at straws for another excuse for my illness/behaviours?

It is an eerie thought for me, though, as I have been in self-sabotage mode since. I wonder if my subconscious got hold of those thoughts and set about having them realized. On the other hand, maybe they weren't so subconscious, as I never forgot these two things (they mostly arose in my consciousness when I suffered bouts of deep depression and curiously, only after I found out I suffered deep depressive episodes - after sobering up at 29/30). Maybe I'm just looking for reasons to explain all this confusion, pain and suffering I bring on myself.

Yeah, I know, I'm probably just feeling sorry for myself again. I'm certainly not thinking very well, either. Just look at how back and forth this rant was?

Sometimes I just wonder, though...

I've been feeling the same for a long time, growing up in a "extreme religious family (fanatism)" I always asked God for my feeling more normal, or at least make the fears go away.
It never happened and I felt like I wasn't good enough for God to take care of me.
Whatever it is you have in your mind, i think it's great that you can put it in words, I think that helps!
(((((((AlteredState01)))))))

I always set up the worst possible outcome in my mind. It is my way of protecting myself. Anything could be better than my idea, and if the worst happens, at least I was prepared.

I've met several people in the hospital that had the same line of thinking. Apparently, it is wrong and can lead to self-defeating behaviors.

I don't know how to stop that line of thinking though. I have the need to protect myself and be prepared for the worst, then I won't be disappointed. It's self- protective behavior that will maybe go away when I look at the protective part and find out what it is there for. Maybe someday I won't be so scared of life.

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Anything could be better than my idea, and if the worst happens, at least I was prepared.

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Were you? I never was, even though I thought I would be. It still "devastated" me every time. Then again, EVERYTHING devastates me! (I'm such a drama queen, though).


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I don't know how to stop that line of thinking though.

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Me either.

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I always asked God for my feeling more normal, or at least make the fears go away.
It never happened and I felt like I wasn't good enough for God to take care of me.

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I can relate to that. I blamed God for most of my life's misfortunes.

I have been learning about the "real" God of my upbringing and not the one designed by the church to "terrorize" me into belief of Him.

Then one day it dawned on me. Even though I totally rejected the religion and the God of my youth, maybe He didn't totally reject me. After all, out of all the situations that I have come out of relatively unscathed, it kinda makes me wonder that He already knew I'd be back, and was really taking care of me behind the scenes, so to speak. Well, of course He knew that! I also believe He also knows how much of a pain I am, and in pain I am, but I'm okay with that to a certain extent. (This one always shifts back and forth)

I'm just not okay with it for myself, and therein lies most of my problems. Not really able to forgive myself or feeling worthy enough, even to exist.

AND since this is religious conversation, the opinions expressed here are solely those of the writer and in no way represent the views of anyone else. (being cheeky here)!


AS

My problem right now is that I long so much to believe and yet I can't seem to find HIM anymore.
Almost everyday I looked at the sky and I ask "where are you?" and If YOU are somewhere, "please help me".
I wish for the faith I see in others, but I can't find it.
I stopped believing and it's one of the saddest things to happen....

Wow! Yeah, ummm, before I say anything to that one, I think I'll think about it first (hey, now there's a first for me - thinking before talking!).

Just remember one thing: God is the ultimate in benevolence and your skepticism never discourages Him. Ok, two things: He understands, so be honest and tell Him what you really think of Him. That's where I started, and I really didn't have (m)any good things to say to Him, either. I thought for sure the bolt of lightning was comin' after that conversation! I guess what the difference for me was that, at the time, I really didn't have anything to lose by being so blatanly honest and I really didn't care if any of my reasons made sense, either - thats His job to figure out - I'm only a screwed up human being. And THAT is when things started to change for me.

By the way, when it comes to religious beliefs and spirituality, I am on high paranoid alert. There's no way I'm going to allow myself to not understand to the best of my ability, what is being taught to me before I can accept it as truth in my life. That is one area I do not want to ever feel so manipulated or misguided again. period.

(Oops, so much for saying nothing much!)

AS

AS, you got it girl. Excatly what I think, and you know, if HE is there, He knows I talk to him with a lot of doubt in my heart.
I really want to believe, but also I understand there is a proccess for everything adn about the manipulation, yes, that is why I want to go slow in this.
Thank you so much~

Sure our thoughts can affect us I think that's what you're asking but I was confused with yours because your worst case scenario was "comforting" to me. I use that thought now to help me when things are bad. I think how we take what we think, one way or the other, is what gets us? There's no "law" we have to take it one way and not the other, nothing inbuilt I don't think.

My mother died when I was 3 and my aunt told me in my 20s that my father had said at that time, if he and my mother had known how sick she was (from before I was born) they wouldn't have had me. I took that to mean, not that they were sorry they had me but that they were glad they didn't know how sick she was! See? You can look at things either way at any time.

Your "goal" in thinking something would be more important I think; you said that with your prayer the constant family turmoil was weighing too heavily on you. I'd work to let go of that (now that you're an adult), to let people care for me rather than allowing myself to believe as a child it was my job to try to take care of others and situations beyond me. That 10 or 11 year old child should be given a well deserved "rest" and comfort that, in the rest of her life, it's not going to get that bad, you'll protect her from such family turmoil.

Three thoughts that came to mind as I read your post...

1) When I was a little girl, I remember thinking that I couldn't keep living if my mom died.

2) Still as a young girl, I prayed that God would bring my dad back home.

3) At age 33, my mom got ill. One day, while taking care of her, I felt my first heart palpitation. I told God to please let me finish the task I had before me and then He could do what He wanted with me.

My mom's illness, from beginning to end, lasted six months. I don't remember feeling another palpitation... that is, until after she had passed on. Then all hell broke loose. Anxiety and panic attacks hit me full force, palpitations were so bad I practically lived in the ER and then depression came in and made itself at home. It's taken me 22 yrs to learn to control these illnesses.

Shortly after my mom passed, I called my minister and told him that I had something that had nagged me for a few years. "Why would the prayer of a young, innocent child go unanswered?" I asked him... and told him what that prayer had been. Without a moment's hesitation, and he knew nothing about me or my past history, he told me that I was under God's care and that no matter how badly I wanted my dad to come home, God hadn't allowed it because it would have been dangerous for me to have him around.

Years later, I found out that my dad had been one of my perpetrators. I had been living with the other one all of my life; my grandmother.

Believing in God's goodness, I believe that God knew one perpetrator was all I could survive. I don't believe that God took me at my word when I said He could do whatever He wanted with me after my mom passed. My mom's passing was the catalist for the family mental illnesses that are part of my genes.

The thought I had as a small girl that I couldn't live without my mother was not something that became self-fulfilling. I've outlived her for 22 yrs and again, her passing was the catalist for my MH situation.

What I did believe for a while is that my Guardian Angel was sleeping on the job and boy, did he have some explaining to do!!

Now I know that God allows troubles to come our way to help build our character. It gives us staying power in the emotional realm. Something I have learned for myself, something that has increased my faith tenfold is to trust that God is watching my growth here on Earth. My responsibility is to make the best with what He's given me and come out on top of each situation. There is always something good to be found with each trial, each problem presented. But it's up to US to find it. He's given us all the power to do that.

I don't think you're pitying yourself. I think you're reaching out for answers. You are exploring possibilities.

PS As regards another of your posts; all you have to do is be YOURSELF, such as you are, nothing more, nothing less. We're all in this together. We have no one to impress. Ok?

I think you have some correct points there... as in learned pessimism? Yes, I have tried the "plan for the worst and if it doesn't happen, I'm ok, better off" type thinking. However, it didn't ever get better for me. Now that we have "the observer effect" documented, it proves that what we expect to see, happen is what we see and what does happen. Time to think and act on the good stuff about us!

as long as we remember, we are human and God knows we'll make mistakes, as long as God believes in us we'll be fine

I have two things that I would like to add. One is that first we had the concept of "learned helplessness" (from Martin Seligman). After he thought about it for a lot of years, he came up with "learned optimism," which is now the basis of Postive Psychology. We should start a thread about Positive Psychology. It's a good thing.

The other thing I would like to share is a scripture that Tomi's post reminded me of:
"Believe in God; believe that he is, and that he created all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all wisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not comprehend all things which the Lord can comprehend." This is one of my favorites, and one that I find very comforting. We don't know the end from the beginning, but if we can trust someone who does, then we don't need to anticipate the worst.

Okay, I'll add a third. Something I learned in a workshop on cognitive approaches for anxiety was that there are two kinds of worry. It can be helpful and productive to worry about things when worrying motivates us to do something about a problem that exists or can be prevented. When we worry about things that could happen, but probably won't and we couldn't do anything about right now, that just makes us miserable and stops us in our tracks. Those are "what if worries." When you anticipate the worst things that could happen, recognize that you have a what if worry, and that it won't help to think about that. Tell yourself that if it happens, then you will deal with it. Then let go of those thoughts.

Altered State, I haven't read all the replies, so forgive me if I'm repeating something. Your innocent prayer as a child shows the real heart of you, you care so much about people, and you would rather have peace and suffer alone... I believe that we are still the people we were when we were young, because then we didn't hide ourselves behind masks and bravery.

I just want to leave you with one thought, don't worry about asking to carry someone else's burden, God will never bring something on your path that you can't handle. Maybe you are the one that suffers more because in the end you are stronger and the only one who can really handle it...

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growing up in a "extreme religious family (fanatism)" I always asked God for my feeling more normal, or at least make the fears go away.

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I grew up in a religiously fanatical family also. It's extremely hard to give up those ideas.

As for asking God to change your feelings, IMHO, that one is up to us, with His help, of course. It's part of the lesson or the exercise He's given us to help create our character and increase our faith and stamina. He's given us all the resources here on earth to do that. It's up to us to find and use them. At least, that's the way it's been in MY experience.

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Time to think and act on the good stuff about us!

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Yup, that line of thinking absolutely back-fired on me. I cringe when I hear this suggestion being made in therapy, precisely because of how it affected me - as in learned pessimism, just as you said, Sky (although I can see it's merits for some people's line of thinking, such as Perna(?) has expressed).

I believe as I learn to adopt this line of thinking more and more, my BPD symptoms will not nearly be as overwhelming as they are now.

Great thought to always keep in the forefront of one's mind...

Altered State

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...first we had the concept of "learned helplessness" (from Martin Seligman). After he thought about it for a lot of years, he came up with "learned optimism," which is now the basis of Postive Psychology. We should start a thread about Positive Psychology. It's a good thing.

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Now there's an idea!!! I have never even heard of Positive Psychology as a subject unto itself. Gotta research that, for sure.

It's not related to motivational speaking-type stuff is it (like Tony Robbins and gang)?

AS

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He's given us all the resources here on earth to do that. It's up to us to find and use them. At least, that's the way it's been in MY experience.

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I agree. Faith is NOT defined as "following human interpretations and concepts blindly." It is based on knowledge.

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Maybe you are the one that suffers more because in the end you are stronger and the only one who can really handle it...

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In searching for some sort of consolation for this seemingly superstitious belief, this is exactly what I tell myself.

I just have to keep remembering that I don't have to drag all this stuff around by myself. But you know? I feel guilty for dumping it on God, too!

Do I not take things to the nth degree, or what? To think that I should or even could do that constantly amazes me. My arrogance is incredible at times.


This is not a judgement toward myself, just a truth I recognize within me.

Don't be so hard on yourself, and I'm sure God wants you to dump ALL the things on Him... it means that you trust Him with your life, you won't ask someone to help if you knew they couldn't.

I feel it's natural for many of us who suffer depression to have great empathy for others yet care lttle for ourselves. To understand this and be concious of it may help in coping.
I believe in the healing powers of "positive prayer". We often pray for others but we must ALWAYS pray for healing in our own lives....and...be greatful and thankful when it comes. It does too! I'll attest to that!
m.b.

It's funny that sometimes it feels so selfish to pray for yourself... but if we don't, who will?

We must. I remember once when I had the sudden conscious realization that no-one was really going to help me but God and myself. No amount of other peolple's intervention would pull me from the depths of dispair. I had to willingly start it myself. Everything else from outside my own soul were ideas, remedys, affirmations...etc....but I had to conciously make the first step...then....PRAY FOR ME! If my soul was a gift from the divine, then he will never break the tie that binds me to him. We must be connected always!
Sometimes it may just be a simple plea...such as..."Oh God...Help me...Show me the way with your divine guidence for I am SO lost." Most often, my prayers are answered by something as simple as a moment of calm serenity...or being able to have the opportunity to help someone else. I can't possibly understand the "eternal" in my 70 odd years...but I'll be most greatful for every bit of heaven I can experience here. We're like lifetime children in that respect.
Love this passage...James 13 thru 19.
Take care...
m.b.