Caught In Between...

It seems like I'm constantly finding myelf in this extremely awkward situation where when I start to talk, think, or am in a physical position (e.g. semenary) about religion, I don't neccessarily accept the teachings of the Bible and The Book of Morman as they are. Instead I accept them, and try to make some sence of them through philosophy and debate. This is very confusing to type down also, because it won't make sense. But I'm going to try and type down what I mean.
Let's take praying for example. I don't believe in praying. But Mormons of course do. I was told that in order to be Mormon I have to believe in EVERYTHING that they believe in. I object because I feel that that I have the right to choose to what to believe in and what not to believe in. Also, I will never be an official member of the LDS church because I was never baptized.

Hi. I'd love to help you, but I'm really not sure how to reply that would help. You are certainly welcome to PM me if you would like. I am LDS, and I'm not sure if that will mean that I can explain things to your satisfaction or not. You mention being in Seminary and studying the Bible and Book of Mormon, but you also say you are not baptized. I'm wondering if you are in seminary by choice, or if your parents are LDS and expect you to take it, or basically what are the reasons behind your studies in this area.

One thing that I really want you to understand is that it is your choice whether or not you believe the scriptures and church teachings. In seminary and through studying the scriptures you will learn about our beliefs and what the scriptures say and how we understand and practice these things. You say that you don't believe in prayer. You might be interested in a thread in this forum about how various people of various beliefs pray. As I understand it, prayer is how you can find out that God is real and that He loves you, and get confirmation from Him about what is true or what isn't. I don't know how else you could know. These are things that are based on faith, and philosophy or debate will not setttle any of it.

I started to ramble a bit there, but I was trying to make the point that it is up to you to find out about the gospel and what you believe, and while your disagreement isn't going to change the gospel or the church's understanding of it, you are encouraged to learn as much as you can, from various perspectives, and we don't believe in forcing our beliefs on anyone.

The eleventh Article of Faith (for those not familiar, the Articles of Faith are an outline of basic LDS beliefs) says </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

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If you do want to be a Mormon, I would urge you to try praying and seek for answers through faith and pondering the things you are learning, but don't just accept it blindly. I would not want anyone to feel forced or coerced into trying to go along with something that they don't really believe. If you don't want to be a Mormon, then I might not be the right person to advise you, but I still support your agency to choose for yourself, and if I can help you I would be happy to.

TC,
Rap

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Rapunzel said:
I'm wondering if you are in seminary by choice, or if your parents are LDS and expect you to take it, or basically what are the reasons behind your studies in this area.

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I'm just in there by choice. My mom is completely opposed to letting me attend "Mormon meetings" e.g. church, seminary, etc.
But i still feel passionate about the religion.

That's cool that you are passionate about it. In that case, I hope that you keep studying and learn about this religion that you feel strongly about, and make your choice having full information. I'm sorry that your mom is opposed. That can be a really rough situation. If it's what you want, then I hope she comes around. Maybe she will be able to see the good in it in terms of positive changes in you, and will change her mind. Some parents never do though, and that's really hard. Eventually you will be old enough to legally choose for yourself, but even then you will need to consider how it will affect your relationship with your mom. That is important too.

thanks.

but as for the eleventh Article of Faith, does that mean that since I choose to believe that God did NOT have sex with Mary to give birth to Jesus, that it's perfectly fine? And what about my views on gay marriage (it's okay with me..i really don't care), abortions (pro-choice), etc.?

The eleventh article of faith means that we believe that you have the right to believe and worship as you choose. You might want to discuss the points that you are struggling with though, with your seminary teacher or a friend that you trust.

Would it help if I tell you my views on some of those? You might believe differently than the LDS church teaches, and that is fine if you do, but there are some things that the church teaches and that we (meaning Mormons) believe are true. We do believe that Jesus is the literal son of God. When I think about that, it doesn't seem to be such a far stretch. In our time, we know that doctors can artificially inseminate a woman and babies can be created that way. Why would God not be able to do something that people now can do? He knows more than we do.

I'd like to talk to you a little more about gay marriage and about abortion, but those topics are too political to discuss on the forum. You certainly can believe as you believe, and we believe in treating everybody with love and respect, even if they believe differently than we do. There are reasons why we believe as we do, and many of those reasons are spiritual. The only way to really understand and know what is true is to go to the source and ask God. Talking about it with people might help you to make sense of things, but might also confuse the issues. You need the spirit to guide you through those discussions.

thanks! and now that i think about it, it does make sence that God in fact did have intercourse with Mary in order to create Jesus.

and sure, i'll talk to you sometime on how i feel about those political issues.

I can relate to what you've expressed here...for years I tried to "square up" my own personal beliefs with the bible. I believe that what I went thru was based in my own need to have life "dance to my tune" or from a biblical perspective, be my own god (which I can tell you does'nt work) of course you are on your own journey, ask God to show himself to you...prayer is a conversation with God, who loves you and more than anything wants to have a deep relationship with you. as we die to ourselves, we learn to live in Christ! of course, the self will fight you all the way...

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PunkPhotography said:
thanks.

but as for the eleventh Article of Faith, does that mean that since I choose to believe that God did NOT have sex with Mary to give birth to Jesus, that it's perfectly fine? And what about my views on gay marriage (it's okay with me..i really don't care), abortions (pro-choice), etc.?

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Hey PP... I'm a former Mormon who studied the doctrine in a LOT of depth. I graduated from seminary as well. I just wanted to weigh in a bit. I was never under the impression that the church taught that God had sex with Mary. I think that's actually a common misinterpretation. I was always taught that Jesus was an immaculate conception... that God's SPIRIT came on Mary (meaning she was filled with the spirit of God, not in a sexual way, but more in an inspiring, uplifting way) and that Jesus being conceived was miraculous because Mary was a virgin- before Jesus was conceived and still a virgin after. I'm not bringing this up to debate about it, just to clarify what I *think* is actually the doctrine of the church. You can look into it more if it troubles you at LDS.org, the church's official website.

Also, my understanding growing up as a Mormon was that we were to trust in the word of the prophet rather than in our own ideas about what's right and wrong, or the ideas of people around us. The Mormon prophets have been pretty clear about their thoughts on abortion and gay marriage... so no, I don't think that you're in line with Mormon beliefs if you are pro-choice and pro-gay marriage. I don't think that the article of faith means that believing differently from the prophet is necessarily "endorsed" within the church. In my interpretation, I think that article of faith is more about teaching church members to be kind and accepting of people of other faiths, not trying to control what others believe. It seems to me that WITHIN the church, disagreeing with what is considered revelation coming from a prophet of God is discouraged. I think your church leaders would encourage you to pray about it, and to trust in the prophet until you have a better understanding. That said, however...

I do know many people within the church who choose to have some different viewpoints and still be a part of the church. I think it's a very personal decision, and you should follow your heart. If your heart says, hey I disagree with this but still want to be part of Mormonism... then more power to you, and good luck with that journey

For me, it ultimately meant I had to leave. I'm much happier away from the church, defining my beliefs by my own personal convictions, insights, and understandings... and what the church would call "personal revelation." I believe in my own way, pray in my own way... and that fits much better for me.