[costello]

My son came into my bedroom tonight and punched me in the side of the head. So I called the police. They came and put him in handcuffs and put him in jail.

I don't know what's going to happen next or even what I should do.

[vertebrae]

Hey there costello ...

Just saw your post here with regard to what occurred with your son.

Did this happen yesterday (Friday, January 21st) seeing that you posted this at 12:01 AM today?

If so, what transpired or caused your son to strike you? Were you injured? Was he having some type of outburst or does he have some type of mental health condition (schizophrenia?) or was he under the influence of alcohol / drugs?

I am asking these questions as I don't know anything about your background or circumstances ... please pardon my incomplete understanding of what is going on with you and your son.

Is he still being held in the jail or was he transferred to a psychiatric facility? If he was released is he back at home now or is he elsewhere? Are you going to press charges against him? Do you fear for your safety right now, and if so, do you have anyone with whom you can contact in case of an emergency or for that matter, go and stay with (or vice versa)?

Thanks.

-vertebrae-

[costello]

Thanks for responding, vertebrae.

It happened at about 9:30 Friday evening. I was in my bedroom and he was in the living room. I think the instigating incident was my being upset because he hadn't washed the dishes as I had asked him to, but there was no open argument about that. I washed the dishes myself at about 8:30, then at about 9:30 he came into my room. I greeted him and asked how he was doing - cheerfully, btw, I wasn't angry or whatever. He walked over to me and punched me with his fist in my temple.

I jumped up and asked why he'd done that, and he said, "That was a cigarette lighter." I said, "You hit me!" and he denied it. Then he started playing with my dog, saying, "I didn't hit her, did I, Bridey?" Like it was a joke.

I got my phone and dialed 911.

He told the first deputy that I wanted him to do the dishes and I wanted to have sex with him and I was chewing on a dirty tampon. I think he was sitting in the living room, upset and delusional. He was probably stewing over the fact that I'd been angry about the dishes.

He told the second deputy that we'd had a big fight over his wife. (He doesn't have a wife and never has had one.)

Anyway the upshot is they took him in on a domestic. Whether charges are pressed is out of my hands.

His current diagnosis is psychosis, nos. He's not on medication at his request. There were no drugs or alcohol involved tonight.

The deputies could have taken him to the hospital, but I asked them not to, because he's terrified of the hospital. I'm not sure the jail is much better, but when you punch people, the police are likely to show up and take you away somewhere. Jail or hospital. If you don't want to go to one of those places you need to refrain from hitting people.

I'm not really sure what to do now. Frankly there's no other place for him but my home. But I need to be safe and can't have people hitting me. On the other hand he's so much more stable than he was 2 and a half months ago when he moved in with me. He's not safe living alone and there's really no other place, like assisted living, where he can stay.

My biggest concern is that the judge will make it a condition of his release that he not return to my home or have any contact with me. I'm not sure I want him back here, but I also don't want a judge taking that option away.

Anyway I guess there will be a hearing tomorrow sometime, probably in the evening. I'm going to try and make sure the judge and the district attorney are aware of my concern before then.

I'm not sure if I should let him move back, but there's really no other place for him where he can hope to be even as close to as stable as he is here.

Edited to add: I'm not injured. There is no mark, bump, or bruise of any kind. But it was a very solid thump he gave me. I'm doubting whether I should have called the police at all, but I think I have to draw a pretty firm line at hitting. The problem is he's so psychotic that I'm not sure he really understands the line or why it's being drawn.

[vertebrae]

OK costello ...

Just finished reading your post.

Questions:

01. How old is your son?
02. What is his diagnosis?
03. What medication regime is he on?
04. Is he under the care of a psychiatrist?
05. Is he legally disabled or on SSI?
06. Has he done violence to you before?

Just a few things that popped into my head right off the bat here.

OK, so he will spend the night in jail. I don't think that you did anything wrong at all ... he has to be aware that some actions have repercussions, and striking someone in the head with a closed fist constitutes one of those actions.

Secondly, I am sure that it was more than apparent to the law enforcement officials that your son was not being coherent or honest with regard to what unfolded. To mention that you:

a. were struck in the head with his fist, whereby he claimed "that was a cigarette lighter".

b. "wanted to have sex with him" (Uh ... no. Sounds like a delusion to me.)

c. were "chewing on a dirty tampon" (something that no reasonable individual would even consider doing - unless they were REALLY REALLY weird.)

d. were "fighting over his wife" (of which you said he doesn't / nor ever have / had a wife / been married.)

All of these comments / observations by yourself to the police were taken into consideration and I think that when they compared his behaviour and state of mind, to your behaviour and state of mind, it was obvious to them who was more coherent and reasonable. Hence, him being arrested.

Now I am not sure about the judicial protocols that are tied into a charge of "domestic violence" or "domestic battery", other than I would think that it *may* come down to you deciding if you want to press charges or not.

I think that it would be in your best interest, to have him take several days of breathing room away from you. For him to up and smack you over an issue which occurred only 30 minutes to an hour beforehand (which you resolved by doing the dishes), makes me weary with regard to him possibly doing something even worse that is totally unprovoked.

What it boils down to is that I think you shouldn't be a hostage in your own home.

Depending on his age, I am sure that there are other resources which he can take to remain somewhat stable (i.e. halfway houses / county in-patient facilities / etc.).

Anything to the end result of him being monitored:

Monitored to stay on his meds.
Monitored to compose himself.
Monitored to keep his actions in check.
Monitored to function (if somewhat limitedly) in society, etc.

And from what I can gather, you've been helping him now over the past 2 months or so, but then this has surfaced.

Who is to say that 3 weeks from now, with this event behind you, that some other event will occur and set him off? You and I cannot adequately answer that question.

Hence, I think that if he were to be directed to one of the options I mentioned earlier (mental health in-patient facility / halfway house), I think there would be more room for success and it would provide you with some comfort in that he wouldn't be living off of the street or on someone's couch with the potential for relapsing or whatever.

Make your concerns known to the judge / court representatives. Also, if he is under a doctor's care, I suggest you contact that individual with a possible recommendation as far as how to proceed.

Additionally, tonight if need be, write down (or type up) sort of a quick case history / behaviour history on your son. List when the issues began with him (age, etc.), meds he's been on, medical diagnoses, any hospitalizations or run-ins with the law, etc.

That way, you can argue your point with concrete evidence. I know that it is difficult to do something like this to your own flesh & blood, but you know deep down inside how he once was your "little boy" before all of this came into being. Gotta remember that. You are doing this for the welfare of your child.

OK, gonna scoot here.

Will check back with regard to your reply.

Take care,

-vertebrae-

[costello]

Thanks for responding, vertabrae.

01. How old is your son? - 25

02. What is his diagnosis? - psychosis, nos

03. What medication regime is he on? - none

04. Is he under the care of a psychiatrist? - he receives mental health services

05. Is he legally disabled or on SSI? - yes

06. Has he done violence to you before? - no

it *may* come down to you deciding if you want to press charges or not.

I believe it isn't up to the victim in domestic violence cases due to the high number of domestic violence victims who refuse to press charges. It's up to the district attorney, or may even be required by law to prosecute.

Depending on his age, I am sure that there are other resources which he can take to remain somewhat stable (i.e. halfway houses / county in-patient facilities / etc.).

There are no such resources. You can take my word for it. If he were hospitalzied, he would be held for a couple of days then released. There are no long term options available. His alternative to my home is probably a homeless shelter.

Who is to say that 3 weeks from now, with this event behind you, that some other event will occur and set him off? You and I cannot adequately answer that question.

That's the problem. He's very unpredictable.

Hence, I think that if he were to be directed to one of the options I mentioned earlier (mental health in-patient facility / halfway house), I think there would be more room for success and it would provide you with some comfort in that he wouldn't be living off of the street or on someone's couch with the potential for relapsing or whatever.

There is no such facility in this area.

Make your concerns known to the judge / court representatives. Also, if he is under a doctor's care, I suggest you contact that individual with a possible recommendation as far as how to proceed.

I've left a message for his case manager. I'll try to reach the DA tomorrow.

Mental illness is a nightmare.

[spiritual_emergency]

costello, your personal circumstance suddenly bears more than a resemblance to this mother's story...

... He reacted by punching me in the nose and breaking it. I knew he needed help, and wished there was someone else to call beside the police, but unfortunately there wasn't, so I called 911.

By law, it was considered domestic violence and he was immediately taken to jail and charged with a felony.

Source: http://forums.psychcentral.com/showthread.php?t=165808

I wish, as I'm sure you do too, that the situation had not come to this. It did seem to be building to a crisis point and this is not always a negative thing. Crisis points can be opportunities for corrective actions. It is necessary that we set boundaries, insist that they not be crossed, and take action when they are.

Nonetheless, as you note, the situation is now out of your hands and there is no way of predicting what comes next. There is always the possibility that something in this chain of events will strike some chord within your son that serves to challenge him to overcome. Just as possible, he might meet someone in that environment -- a therapist, a peer, a professional -- someone who makes a difference.

No doubt, over the course of the next few days you will begin to find out what happens now.

I hope that something in this proves to actually be beneficial for you both.

~ Namaste

[costello]

Thanks, s_e, for reintroducing the idea of hope. I'm not feeling too hopeful right now.

I hate the police and the criminal justice system. It has nothing to offer in this situation. It's just going to catch him up in a series of pointless activities from which he'll gain nothing.

As they took him away, in hand cuffs, he says to me, "So, I guess you got what you wanted." It angers me, because I've been trying so hard to help. The thing is, if anyone else would have said that I'd have thought it was bravado - or at the very least that on further reflection they would see how their actions contributed to the situation. My son, however, will never "get it." In his mind he's the victim.

I need him to understand that no matter how justified he believes himself to be, he cannot ever ever ever hit me.

[spiritual_emergency]

costello: There is no such facility in this area.

There is a tremendous need for safe, humane and alternative options to unwanted/imposed hospitalizations or a jail cell.

Admittedly, during one point in my child's experience I recall putting in a call to a crisis team. I had hoped that service might be something like that offered by the Open Dialogue approach. A care team that would come out to our home, help us work out some solutions that would respect the needs of all. After listening to the care worker boast about how many times he had forced people into restraints I opted to leave my child on the streets. It wasn't a very attractive compromise but I felt they'd have more of a fighting chance there as opposed to being in a locked room with four men.

There was also a time when I thought even a jail cell would be a more attractive option than a life on the streets. I secretly hoped they might be arrested and would somehow find the help that would help them.

Those responses probably spoke more to my own sense of desperation as well as a critical lack in crisis options. In the end, we were very fortunate to find a better hospital in conjunction with my child finding someone who made a deeper connection with them than I could. In between all those moments, frightened and saddened for them, I occasionally found myself praying that something, someone would watch over them.

I can only hope the same for you and your son.

~ Namaste


Music of the Hour:

[costello]

Originally Posted by spiritual_emergency

In the end, we were very fortunate to find a better hospital in conjunction with my child finding someone who made a deeper connection with them than I could. In between all those moments, frightened and saddened for them, I occasionally found myself praying that something, someone would watch over them.

I can only hope the same for you and your son.

Thanks. I hope for someone who can connect with my son. (Or better yet that my son will take the initiative here in some way.) I feel like I have too much history with him. Unfortunately what is available is the mhc, and the people there already believe my son is dangerous. This will confirm that opinion. He really isn't helping his case much.

His case manager, who seems to be reasonably good, had arranged for someone to come to my house to see him twice a week. He would come himself one day, and another young man would come a second day. This was to be the first week. And today was to have been the first day the other guy would come.

I'm pretty familiar with the mhc, and what I know is that when they say they'll do something they generally don't do it. So I asked the case manager for reassurance that they would follow through on this. And he said they surely would. And of course today that other guy cancelled on my son - his very first visit!

It's a sucky system from top to bottom.

[spiritual_emergency]

costello: It's a sucky system from top to bottom.

Something I learned a very long time ago was that you cannot pay someone to love your child. This will always remain a flaw of institutionalized care. Love can and does happen, of course, and when it does, that can be a powerful force, but we can't make it happen. It either happens or it doesn't. More often, it doesn't.

It must be late for you costello. I suggest you get some sleep while you can. Tomorrow, you will get up and begin making phone calls and doing your research. You sound like you've been at it long enough to know exactly where you can find copies of any mental health laws that pertain to your jurisdiction. You may also be in the fortunate position of knowing some people who can lend some expertise -- pro bono. But that's tomorrow. Today, you need to sleep.

~ Namaste

[SakuraLi]

Costello, I`m sorry your having such a tough time and things have escalated so badly in a matter of several days. While he`s gone, I`m wondering if you can get a nice strong lock for your bedroom door and take all possibly dangerous items out of the house so your son can`t get ahold of them? And can you put a covert lock on the outside of your son`s door, just in case you would need to lock him in if their ever came a time where you would need to in order to be safe? I`m just saying this keeping in mind the various incidents you`ve explained over these last several days. I feel like your well being needs to be put first so you can take care of your self and help care for and advocate for your son. I hope you will find a solution soon.

[costello]

Thanks, SakuraLi:

My bedroom door is very flimsy, so I doubt a lock would help. And he doesn't sleep in his bedroom; he sleeps in the living room. Anyway you couldn't lock anyone in that room. It has four windows, all of which are on ground level. Open the window, tear out the screen, and step over the sill, you're outside. It would likely only make him angry.

I slept 3 hours. I'm lying here wondering if he learned anything from this incident. Will fear of going to jail prevent future aggression? He wasn't enraged or anything. He presented as being calm. To me that would indicate a chance to think twice before acting.

It's kind of weird. I was really irritated that he hadn't washed the dishes. But I wasn't yelling or lecturing. I commented on it then washed the dishes myself. He just sat there the whole time, almost like he didn't notice it was going on. But clearly he had noticed and it effected him fairly deeply. He must have sat there steaming over it and feeling angry at me. Meantime I've gone back to my facebook games and am not thinking about dishes or feeling angry.

I wonder if - on some subconscious level - he has to justify his level of anger by attributing really horrible things to me. Maybe that's the underlying source of these delusions? Or... oh, shoot! I've lost my thought. I had another idea of where these delusions might have come from.

It doesn't make sense to punch someone because they washed the dishes they'd asked you to wash. But I can see someone whose mind works like my son's does going from "I'm really mad at Mom" to "Why am I so mad? It can't be the dishes" to "I'll bet she did something really awful" to "Yes, she wants to have sex with me, and she does disgusting things like playing with dirty tampons." Hence a delusion that "explains" the level of anger he's feeling. And now he feels justified in hitting me.

I don't think he would do that consciously, but I can see that happening in his delusional world.

If that's true - and it's all speculation - then we're back to working on how to deal with powerful negative emotions. I suspect there's a well of fear and anger there but it's not being expressed appropriately or handled skillfully. Drugging him won't help with that - not long term.

Another approach would be trying to teach him not to act out in ways that violate societal norms - even when he feels completely justified. Simple rules: Don't hit people. Don't walk into the women's restroom. Period. No matter what. The problem is, I doubt that will work, on either the short or long term.

[vertebrae]

costello ...

You and I have been up awake on this all evening. I've been lying awake thinking about this.

Something came to my mind with regard to a video I viewed awhile back about how someone with schizophrenia / psychosis or hearing voices, may view the world.


JUST A WORD OF CAUTION TO OTHERS WHO MAY BE SUFFERING WITH SCHIZOPHRENIC OR PSYCHOTIC CONDITIONS - THESE VIDEOS ARE INTENSE AND MAY CAUSE FEELINGS OF DISTRESS OR TRIGGER STRONG EMOTIONS OR REACTIONS.


Here are the links (you'll need to really crank up the volume on your computer, or better yet, listen with headphones).

I posted the links with spaces inbetween some of the characters that comprise the URL link, as I noticed that here on the PC Forums, when a user posts a YouTube link, the videos are posted directly into the Forum thread rather than the option to just click on the link to access the video.

Since these videos are intense, I decided to eliminate the ease with which they could be viewed by adjusting the way in which the URL's are depicted below.

To view them, just remove the additional spaces (found at the beginning " h t t p : / / w w w ." and near the ". com" portions) and then copy & paste the link into your Internet browser.

01. Video on YouTube:

One is called "Living With Schizophrenia - A Visit To The Pharmacy" and I am not sure about the title of the other one paired up with the video below:

h t t p : / / w w w . youtube . com/watch?v=dkB2CGL769o&feature=related

___________


02. Two videos with an explanation of who and why they were put together:

h t t p : / / onemansblog . com/2007/06/13/what-its-really-like-to-be-schizophrenic/


One is called "Living With Schizophrenia - A Visit To The Pharmacy" and the other (which you'll need the RealPlayer video player to view) is called If you aren't able to view the "Bus Ride" video in RealPlayer, here is a second link (albeit of lesser quality) for the video on YouTube:

h t t p : / / w w w . youtube . com/watch?v=_S8CzkCom_o


Take care,

-vertebrae-

[KUREHA]

Sorry you had that happen

If you're not hurt though - isn't it up to you , if you want to press charges?
I could be totally wrong though.

Just, take care

[spiritual_emergency]

costello: It's kind of weird. I was really irritated that he hadn't washed the dishes. But I wasn't yelling or lecturing. I commented on it then washed the dishes myself. He just sat there the whole time, almost like he didn't notice it was going on. But clearly he had noticed and it effected him fairly deeply. He must have sat there steaming over it and feeling angry at me.

I think it's possible that it could have served to trigger a sense of inadequacy or failure. The anger he may have felt might have been related to himself but that which is distressing to deal with often does get projected outwards. Perhaps he was angry with you because you served to remind him that he doesn't feel competent or that you can't understand him. We could argue that if only he'd have done the dishes he might have felt better but he didn't do the dishes.

Something else to consider is, what was happening for you yesterday? I know there have been times I've walked into my own home at the end of a long day, seen a mess and this has triggered a thought process of my own that might look something like this: Geez, no one did a single thing around here all day. All the work is being left for me! I work hard already, why should I have to come home and clean up after other people too? Sitting just behind those thought processes are some other thoughts that might sound like this if they were spoken aloud: You're being lazy and selfish. I feel put-out. Why do I have to do everything? I feel overwhelmed, tired, and unappreciated. No one is helping me! Truthfully, we don't have to speak these thoughts as they can be conveyed in a sigh, a shrug of the shoulders, a turning of the back, a stony silence.

Meantime, here's some possible scenarios to consider: What if...

- You let the dishes sit there until you really could feel okay about doing them yourself instead of irritated. I have used this approach myself on numerous occasions and so far, somewhat to my disappointment, the dishes have always been patient in waiting.

- You let the dishes sit there until you could talk to your son about them without feeling resentful or angry.

- You said nothing but gave him the opportunity to do the dishes later that evening.

- What if you suggested that the two of you did the dishes together?

How does all that sit with you?

By the same token, in terms of him hitting you... I agree that this is unacceptable behavior. What I'm wondering is if there is a way for you to convey that you won't accept that kind of treatment from him without you having to involve local authorities. What if...

-- You had leapt to your feet, roared, "Don't ever do that again!" and gone to your room or out for a drive?

-- You had hit him back?

--You had sent him to his room or told him to go out for a walk?

-- The two of you had been able to cool off and then later come back together to talk about any of those emotions that were churning under the surface?

I'm trying to choose my words carefully for I'm not wanting to trigger remorse or regret so much as I am different ways of looking at the situation and possible ways of resolving similar situations in the future that will ultimately work to your mutual benefit. Meantime, I know that I wasn't there and there are times when difficult decisions have to be made.

Nonetheless, it concerns me when other forms of authority become involved because what seems to happen is parents and children become even more disempowered and often, more estranged. You still have the same problems to deal with but you also have a new problem that has to be addressed. That problem is legal authorities and they have more power than you do right now. They can now make the decisions for your son's care or lack thereof and you will likely have no voice in that. Neither will he. If it turns out that their decisions help your son, this will be a good thing. If it makes the situation worse, it won't be a good thing for you, him or your relationship.

At this point, I sincerely hope your son either willingly consents to go to a hospital and that ends up being a positive experience for him, or that he's released back into your care and is motivated to do something different.

Another approach would be trying to teach him not to act out in ways that violate societal norms - even when he feels completely justified. Simple rules: Don't hit people. Don't walk into the women's restroom. Period. No matter what. The problem is, I doubt that will work, on either the short or long term.

In the descriptions of your son's behaviors, manic behavior seems to be a more consistent theme. Impulsivity is one of the hallmarks of mania. In some forms it can be admired as a form of refreshing spontaneity or healthy refusal to go along with the status quo. More commonly, it seems to present as a violation of social codes and norms -- everything ranging from behavior that might be considered inappropriate or risque to that which is damaging to self and others.

As always, I think the real experts on an experience are the ones who have had it. Some perspectives from those who have personally dealt with mania and the impulsiveness that may come with it may be helpful for attempting to understand your son's state of mind.

SalukiLi: I`m wondering if you can get a nice strong lock for your bedroom door and take all possibly dangerous items out of the house so your son can`t get ahold of them? And can you put a covert lock on the outside of your son`s door, just in case you would need to lock him in if their ever came a time where you would need to in order to be safe?

During my child's manic episodes we did purchase a lock for a door however this was neither to keep them locked in somewhere nor to keep us locked in somewhere. In truth, if I'd ever felt that was necessary I would also accept that as an indication that we had gone beyond our ability to provide care. However, all medications, car keys, credit cards, alchohol -- these items were kept in a locked location. This was a boundary we imposed upon the situation for their sake and our own.

[spiritual_emergency]

I noticed this thread in the Bipolar discussion area costello. It doesn't really have any answers but perhaps you will find it comforting to know that other parents are struggling with similar issues and they're not sure of the best way to deal with them either.

It might also be reassuring to know that most of the respondants also feel that calling the police is the most appropriate recourse: victim of violent outbusts--help

I hope you get some answers today and a bit more sleep.

~ Namaste

[costello]

Originally Posted by KUREHA

Sorry you had that happen

If you're not hurt though - isn't it up to you , if you want to press charges?
I could be totally wrong though.

Just, take care

Thanks, KUHERA.

No, pressing charges is up to the prosecutor. My experience with our local prosecutor isn't promising. They have way too many lawyers down there, and way too little crime in the county. They prosecute everything - especially if it seems like a slam dunk.

My sister's son was punched by another kid at school when he was about 15. She knew her son was no angel and it could just as easily have been her son who was the "perp" and the other kid the "victim." So she told the prosecutor she wasn't interested in having the other child prosecuted. The prosecutor told her her son would be subpeonaed and dragged down to court to testify if there was a trial. (The other kid plead, so there was no trial.)

I do hope they exercise discretion and decide not to prosecute, but I'm not holding my breath. I just hope they don't use it as an excuse to force medication on a "dangerousness" theory. I'll have to investigate what level of danger they'd need to show in order to override both my son's and my wishes about treatment.

[costello]

s_e: I think it's possible that it could have served to trigger a sense of inadequacy or failure.

Possibly. I'll have to think that one over a bit. Actually part of the "history" between my son and me that I keep mentioning is the issue of doing the dishes. It was a constant source of conflict through his teen years. We both have bitter memories of it. As a result last night was actually the first time I'd asked him to wash the dishes since he's moved home. He's home all day. He literally uses every fork and spoon in the house. Yesterday there were six coffee cups standing on the kitchen counter. Yes, I do resent it, and last night I arrived home after 7 and had been looking forward to a tv show that started at 7, and there were all those dishes. So I asked him to do them. And he didn't do them.

s_e: Meantime, here's some possible scenarios to consider:

Yep, I'm all about trying to find a different approach when the first approach fails miserably. Probably I'll simply never ask him to do the dishes again. I'll tell you a secret: I actually enjoy doing dishes. I think last night he hit my "why are you ignoring my needs" button. That's why it made me so mad. He regularly ignores all my requests to respect my needs. It's very hard to say to someone, "Please don't do that. This is very important to me" and have them go right ahead and do it. I feel like I've been spit on.

Anyway I'll do the dishes; he can take out the trash.

s_e: What if...

-- You had leapt to your feet, roared, "Don't ever do that again!" and gone to your room or out for a drive?

-- You had hit him back?

--You had sent him to his room or told him to go out for a walk?

-- The two of you had been able to cool off and then later come back together to talk about any of those emotions that were churning under the surface?

I think all of those would not have worked or would have backfired. He was already in my room. I've done the thing where I left the house when I've felt he was acting out aggressively but it wasn't aimed at me. I draw the line at hitting. I won't leave the house in a similar situation in the future.

I'm actually not a physically aggressive person by nature, in fact I never spanked him. I can't imagine hitting him now. I believe it would have lead to a fight. He's been in several tussles with friends over the last year, and he said after each one that he just didn't know how to handle the situation. In fact he said the same thing to the deputy last night. He didn't know how to react. He gets overwhelmed. I think it would be unwise to yell or return violence. I was suitably indignant I think. That is all he can handle right now without escalating him.

Asking him to leave/go to his room would have resulted in his standing there with a "make me" look on his face and me feeling impotent.

s_e: I'm trying to choose my words carefully for I'm not wanting to trigger remorse or regret so much as I am different ways of looking at the situation and possible ways of resolving similar situations in the future that will ultimately work to your mutual benefit.

Oh, I'll second guess myself no matter what happens. And I always look to see what I did that contributed to the situation.

s_e: Nonetheless, it concerns me when other forms of authority become involved because what seems to happen is parents and children become even more disempowered and often, more estranged.

Yeah, that's always a concern, but I have to class it amongst the things I can't change. The world will do what the world will do.

I believe I did the right thing last night calling the police. When I ask my son not to do certain things there are different categories. I'd like him to stop leaving the toilet seat up. I'd like him to pick up after himself. I'd like him to leave the lights off at night. I'd like him to not punch me in the head. That last falls into a whole different category of request. He ignores those other requests and every other request I make of him. But in the last one I have the whole weight of society behind me. It's intolerable. We don't hit people. We don't walk into the bedrooms of our mothers and punch them in the head without warning and with very little provocation. The response to that level of unacceptable behavior has to be much higher, partly because if the behavior continues he will have to leave my house. I won't allow this to continue long.

I had a very similar situation with my adopted son, so I've actually had a chance to think this one through. He came to me at the age of almost 13. He was placed with me as a pre-adoptive placement (i.e., I wasn't his foster mom), but it took 2 years for the adoption to be finalized (usually less than 6 months - I think they were worried about a single mom handling a teenaged boy with a history of acting out physically). At any time during that 2 years I could have pulled out. The agency also could have decided it wasn't a good placement.

Four or five months after he was placed with me, he started becoming aggressive (he had a history of disrupting foster placements at about 5 months). It started with disrespectful talk and progressed through swearing, grabbing things from my hands, throwing things at me, blocking my path, pushing me, and, finally, hitting me. After the second or third time I told him I would call the police every time he hit me. It felt risky and I didn't want to do it, but I had to set a firm limit.

It took a few times calling the police, but eventually he got this behavior under control. It gave him valuable skills that will help him throughout his life, and it signalled that he was willing to put forth effort to make the placement work.

[spiritual_emergency]

costello: I think last night he hit my "why are you ignoring my needs" button. That's why it made me so mad. He regularly ignores all my requests to respect my needs. It's very hard to say to someone, "Please don't do that. This is very important to me" and have them go right ahead and do it. I feel like I've been spit on.

I recall there were times when my child invaded my own boundaries or disrespected critical needs of my own. It is very difficult not to take it personally. I remarked to a friend at the time, "It's like if someone's been drinking and they throw a punch at you. You know that if they hadn't been drunk it wouldn't have happened but that doesn't make the punch hurt any less."

I had to remind myself (and others too) many times over -- this is "mania / depression / psychosis". It's not them. It's not who they are.

I found it challenging to try and determine when consequences of any sort should be applied and if so, what kind or what degree of consequences. Like you, I also found it necessary to set boundaries and rules. For example, "No marijuana" was a rule but because I was very much aware they couldn't take care of nor provide for themselves at that time, we agreed that a consequence could not be, "If you use it again you have to leave and fend for yourself." Instead, consequences came in other forms, like having a mother who was angry with you.

It's a fine line. I don't think there are any easy answers.

Please keep us posted on what is happening with your son.

~ Namaste

[costello]

Originally Posted by spiritual_emergency

Please keep us posted on what is happening with your son.

Thanks. I put you on my gratitude list this evening. Your long, thoughtful responses are wonderful. I'm just hungry for someone I can throw around ideas with who won't suggest I force medications or kick him out.

I spoke with my therapist tonight. She agreed that calling the police was the right thing to do last night. And she told me I wasn't crazy for being willing to have him back. She also told me that the homeless shelter here is very good and compassionate - should he end up there. She's had clients there. She's trying to think of someplace he could go other than my home. So mentioned that Will Hall believes that a person in recovery shouldn't be in his parent's home, because they'll trigger each other. That's certainly been my experience. She mentioned a Soteria House in Alaska. She said the other places she could think of were very expensive.

I haven't heard from him at all since he left here yesterday. My understanding is the hearing was to be this evening. The jailer estimated around 5 pm; it's 7 here now. I'm assuming if they were going to release him he'd be on the horn asking me to come get him. So I guess they're holding on to him a while longer. I hope he's safe and not hallucinating too badly.

I understand he would have to initiate any calls, so I'll have to wait.

[spiritual_emergency]

costello: I understand he would have to initiate any calls, so I'll have to wait.

It's probably not a crime for you to call. The worst that can happen is they'll tell you they can't tell you anything, and even then, they probably will tell you at least a little bit.

I'm just hungry for someone I can throw around ideas with who won't suggest I force medications or kick him out.

What has happened is a form of breaking point. It changes the energy flow although we can't know in what way the energy will flow from here. Maybe resentment. Maybe anger or hurt. Maybe something else. Meantime, I can only see your son and his experience through your eyes so I don't know what his space is like but I would think this might be a good renegotiation point, provided that he is capable of talking about such things. We do have to choose our words carefully and we have to try and be aware of the places where we get triggered or are vulnerable to hurt. If that's happening, a time-out can be a good idea.

Something I still see as very important is support for you. I would hope you continue to seek that out, both online and locally.

It might also be worth revisting the medication issue. As noted elsewhere, people may sometimes to be opposed to one class of medication but open to using other forms of medication. The greed and lies of the pharmaceutical industry aside, some people do identify them as helpful. Those who are strenuously opposed may still be willing to consent to short term or emergency use terms only. Having a choice can make a difference as can agreeing on a trial period and sticking with it.

So mentioned that Will Hall believes that a person in recovery shouldn't be in his parent's home, because they'll trigger each other. That's certainly been my experience. She mentioned a Soteria House in Alaska. She said the other places she could think of were very expensive.

As you observed, it's sucky. I hope you and your son are able to talk soon and perhaps, work out a better arrangement. It may be that your son cannot live with you right now and perhaps, the shelter is the only suitable alternative. It might also be helpful to have your care worker investigate adjacent counties or programs. If he is going to return to your home, I would also encourage you to keep working on that care team so that people are coming into your home through the day, at least a few days a week. I think part of the issue in regard to triggering factors isn't just the parent/child relationship, it's the unrelenting aspect of it. No one else is present to help break up or shift the energy in different directions.

Meantime, I wonder if it might be possible for you to make some different work arrangements that might see you get home a bit earlier each night or even take a day or half-day off work each week. If you used that time to sleep, it might help you cope better with the stresses that are part and parcel of caring for someone in an early stage of recovery.

I'll continue to hold you and your son in my thoughts.

~ Namaste

[RunningEagleRuns]

Originally Posted by costello

Thanks for responding, vertebrae.

It happened at about 9:30 Friday evening. I was in my bedroom and he was in the living room. I think the instigating incident was my being upset because he hadn't washed the dishes as I had asked him to, but there was no open argument about that. I washed the dishes myself at about 8:30, then at about 9:30 he came into my room. I greeted him and asked how he was doing - cheerfully, btw, I wasn't angry or whatever. He walked over to me and punched me with his fist in my temple.

I jumped up and asked why he'd done that, and he said, "That was a cigarette lighter." I said, "You hit me!" and he denied it. Then he started playing with my dog, saying, "I didn't hit her, did I, Bridey?" Like it was a joke.

I got my phone and dialed 911.

He told the first deputy that I wanted him to do the dishes and I wanted to have sex with him and I was chewing on a dirty tampon. I think he was sitting in the living room, upset and delusional. He was probably stewing over the fact that I'd been angry about the dishes.

He told the second deputy that we'd had a big fight over his wife. (He doesn't have a wife and never has had one.)

Anyway the upshot is they took him in on a domestic. Whether charges are pressed is out of my hands.

His current diagnosis is psychosis, nos. He's not on medication at his request. There were no drugs or alcohol involved tonight.

The deputies could have taken him to the hospital, but I asked them not to, because he's terrified of the hospital. I'm not sure the jail is much better, but when you punch people, the police are likely to show up and take you away somewhere. Jail or hospital. If you don't want to go to one of those places you need to refrain from hitting people.

I'm not really sure what to do now. Frankly there's no other place for him but my home. But I need to be safe and can't have people hitting me. On the other hand he's so much more stable than he was 2 and a half months ago when he moved in with me. He's not safe living alone and there's really no other place, like assisted living, where he can stay.

My biggest concern is that the judge will make it a condition of his release that he not return to my home or have any contact with me. I'm not sure I want him back here, but I also don't want a judge taking that option away.

Anyway I guess there will be a hearing tomorrow sometime, probably in the evening. I'm going to try and make sure the judge and the district attorney are aware of my concern before then.

I'm not sure if I should let him move back, but there's really no other place for him where he can hope to be even as close to as stable as he is here.

Edited to add: I'm not injured. There is no mark, bump, or bruise of any kind. But it was a very solid thump he gave me. I'm doubting whether I should have called the police at all, but I think I have to draw a pretty firm line at hitting. The problem is he's so psychotic that I'm not sure he reallyk hin understands the line or why it's being drawn.

He needs to be on meds. If your psychotic you can think God wants you to do stuff like that. Could be not his fault. Good luck

[vertebrae]

costello ...

What's the word on the status of your son?

How are you holding up right now?

Stay strong,

-vertebrae-

[costello]

Originally Posted by vertebrae

What's the word on the status of your son?

How are you holding up right now?

I bonded him out of jail, but he's not allowed to return to my home or have contact with me. So he's a night or two away from the homeless shelter.

I'm in a state of incipient panic.

[vertebrae]

Hang in there, OK?

Hang in there.

Prayers up for you and him.

-vertebrae-