Are they real?

I don't think I'm being gang stalked. I don't usually pay too much attention to stuff like that, but I can't imagine any reason why anyone would want to stalk me. And I don't feel fearful. Honestly I tend to be lost in my own thoughts most of the time. When I was younger I'd actually try to walk around while reading a book, but I tended to trip over curbs and run into people. I could probably have an army following me around, and I just wouldn't notice.

Just stay safe. No knife, though. The medication should help bring the fear level down gradually over time. Give it at least a month, I would say. When you feel less afraid, you'll be able to figure out what to do next. But you really do have to take it every day and give it a chance to help you feel calmer. I've seen my son when he's taking it hit and miss, and it really makes him more anxious. Now I always give him his pill at 8 pm every night, so he doesn't forget.

Ah right, they make it totally obvious to me - I'm always looking everywhere. Sometimes they don't need a reason to stalk people.

I hate my medication it tastes weird - but it's ok if it makes me feel better. I didn't tell the nurse you believe me - everytime I tell her other people think I'm not ill, she says they might be ill or that it feeds my beliefs. Then I won't look for alternatives because it's like a top up for what I'm thinking about.

The knife is still a big deal to me, it could save my life, why doesn't my nurse understand that.

I'm off the course as well.

It sounds to me like she's concerned about you. She just doesn't want you to get hurt.

I know it's a big deal with you, but I just don't believe it will save your life. I think it's far more likely that you'll be hurt in some way by it.

You can take the course later. It sounds like it was too much right now with everything else you have to deal with.

If they're that obvious, then I'm definitely not being stalked. I don't see anyone following me or watching me or anything. So I guess I'm ok. I think they'd be very bored with me anyway. I do nothing interesting - just go to work and home.

((((((((((((( KUREHA )))))))))))))))

I just wanted you to know that I'm reading and supporting you as best I can. I'm so glad to hear that you are taking your meds again. Costello is right, please make sure to take them as prescribed and let them work for you. I know they can taste nasty, but that's a small price to pay for feeling better and more calm and to not have those intrusive thoughts running around in your head all the time.

KUREHA, I know you have been researching a lot lately to find information to back up your thoughts. I want to know if you have done any research that would back up the ideas that you are having intrusive thoughts and what you can do to help yourself minimize them. I know there are posts in this forum from Spiritual_Emergency that have been helpful to you in the past. Can you do a search in the forum for their posts/threads and try reading them again? You may be able to get some helpful ideas on how to handle what you are going through right now. It sounds to me like you are probably very anxious and hyper-vigilant and that can take a lot out of you physically and mentally.

I also want to touch on your compassionate side KUREHA. I know that you do not want to hurt anyone who is innocent. When we are hyper-vigilant and anxious, it's easy to misread people and I hope that you don't misread an innocent for a sleeper cell. If that happened and you hurt them in some way, I would imagine you would feel horrible about that, not to mention you could be put in jail or hospital for a very very long time. I know you don't want that for yourself and neither do any of us here at PC. I know you care about people, you have shown that to me!

Good for you for taking your meds again!! I'm very proud of you for deciding to do that. KUREHA, you are a very good person and I pray that you can feel better very very soon. Please take good care of yourself okay?

Safe and Gentle
sabby

Hi Kureha

I am a new member. This is my first posting. (I have therefore had to take out all the links.) I joined today, on the recommendation of an "Assistant Admin" at Schizophrenia.com, which I joined about a week ago.

I am also in the UK. You can find me with a Google search. I am not the John Allman who is a professor of neuroscience as Caltech!

There are states of mind and habits of feeling and thought that could be described as "unhealthy" in a metaphorical sense. Some of them can also be literally unhealthy, because they lead to self-harm, or cause somatic disorders - real diseases. And there are physical diseases that cause mental symptoms, for example Alzheimer's Disease. But whether the modern "mental health" industry ought to be as it is, and annexed to ordinary medicine, and whether the term "mental illness" is useful, I would debate vigorously.

I think that this is an exaggeration, but I would agree that parts of the DSM are influenced by individuals who are complicit in an attempt to cover up the crimes of electronic harassment and organised stalking, by discrediting the victims.

I visited TheHiddenEvil dot com for the first time tonight, prompted by your posting. I can only give you my first impressions. I subscribe to the basic conspiracy theory documented. However, I am aware that some of the sites that document the same conspiracy are infected by misinformation, and opinion stated as fact. You might find creviews.net helpful, in determining which websites that document the conspiracy are reliable, and which aren't.

I believe that this is correct.

I know Rauni. We met at the Fifth European Symposium on Non-Lethal Weapons, where she was a paying attender at the conference, and I got in free, because I was delivering a presentation at one of the workshops, entitled Ethical and societal implications of capacity for privacy-invasive remote interrogation and behavioural influence applications. (You will have to Google the title to find it, because I've got to make ten postings here before I can include links, so I've had to redraft my posting minus the links.)

You will find a photograph of Rauni Kilde, Harlan Girard, Martin Bott, Walter Madliger (who also gave a presentation) and Col John B Alexander and myself at [link removed]. (To find the photo, please Google the title of my paper, and click on the link near the bottom of the page to the fact sheet and photo collage by Karlheinz Croissant.)

On a technical point, Rauni told me that she was never formally appointed as Chief Medical Officer of Health (CMOH) for the whole of Finland. For very a long time, she was CMOH of Lapland, which is part of Finland. For a much shorter time, she was acting CMOH for the whole of Finland, whilst a new permanent incumbent to that post was recruited. Rauni was living in Norway when I last had contact with her.

In my experience, when a person who has a relationship with mental health professionals, in which the professionals regard him or her as their patient, and begins to educate himself or herself about the matters about which you are beginning to educate yourself, it is unsafe for him or her to give in to the temptation to try to educate the particular mental health professionals whose patient he or she is.

Kind regards,

John

I'm still at college for 1 day - I start in January doing 2 again, but a 6 hour lesson instead of 4. I got to the see the student counsellor as well, I didn't ask to -she was just there, she knows my nurse.

All I said in my email to the teacher was people watch and follow me around outside - nothing else about it. The student counsellor thinks I'm schizophrenic because I'm with the early intervention team.

I'm still getting those thoughts and I saw the sleeper cells on Friday, but I was scared, because I didn't have my knife. I just dont think talking to them is going to make much difference.

One day a week will be easier for you, IMO. It's still going to be hard, though.

I'm glad you left the knife at home. I know it's really scary. I do think if you keep taking the medication as prescribed, the fear will loosen it's grip on you. Then you can think more clearly.

Sorry just noticed your post, I will check those things you mentioned, later.

Trying to tell my nurses about it is a waste of time, they just won't accept it.

I'm just confused, college is confusing, the different messages are, my nurse is not understanding the importance.

The only thing that is clear are the sleeper cells- the only things that make sense are them, when I mention it, I get confused with other people's ideas.

The meds, don't know how long to take them, I'll give it a little while.

Kureha, the reason you're confused is the fear. I've been talking to you for a long time - almost a year - and I've said from day one that you have to master the fear. Once the fear is under control, you'll feel less confused.

Remember my story about almost shooting my sister? Can you imagine my mind at that moment? I was terrified. And because I was terrified it seemed like a really good idea to fire a shotgun at a closed door without even knowing who was on the other side. It seemed like my only option in that moment. It wasn't my only option. At the very least I should have called out, "Who's there?" or "I have a gun." It was the cloud of fear that fogged my brain.

You also are enveloped in a fog of fear right now, except for you it's lasted months instead of only a few seconds. I've kept hoping you could kind of get on top of the fear using some relaxation techniques, but it seems like it's too big. That's why I think the medication might be a useful tool to help you get your feet under you again.

Please give them sufficient time to work. I don't know how long is required, but it's going to be a while. It seems like in the past you've gone for a few days at a time and then stopped. I just know from watching my son do that same thing that that will make it worse. Can you ask your mom or someone else you trust to remind you each time it's time to take the med and remind you again that you've promised yourself you'll give it at least a month this time?

I don't think I'm confused because of fear - I'm scared, but I don't think it's because of that.
I can't control the fear until this stops, I don't know if when I leave the house - if it's going to be the last time I do.

I understand your story, but you got to understand you had a 1 off - I get it every day, just some days are better than others. I understand you were scared though.

The meds I've taken them for a while before - probably 2 months, before I stopped, I think that was long enough - that should be enough, but I still got told to take them, then I got 10mg wasn't helpful, so what was the point of me taking it anyway.

I do understand that. I try to imagine being in your shoes. It must be very difficult. I do think the fear is contributing, though.

That's discouraging to hear. Didn't know you'd taken them so long before. Was is the same medication? Abilify, right? Same dose you're taking now?

Kureha, the medication isn't going to solve the problem as such. It will just change the way you react to it. I know that doesn't seem to you like it would help much, but really it's huge. Please try it. If you have to ask for a different medication or a higher dose, please do.

Yeah it was Abilify - I'm taking 15mg for now.
It's just they all talk about it like it's something that's going to totally change everything.

I really don't seem much happening - it makes me calmer and everything gets worse when I stop - but not much changes with it, I still get scared.

Yeah, unfortunately the meds get way oversold. I don't think they're the miracles everyone says they are, but they do have some usefulness. They're easily available, and they can help. They're a tool not a miracle.

If you're feeling calmer, it's helping. Even if you still feel scared, if it's taking the edge off the fear, it's a good thing. It'll be easier to move on with your life - succeed in school. Right?

Don't stop the medication suddenly. It'll just create a rebound. That's why it seems worse when you suddenly quit.

I can take it until Feb - after that I won't have a psychiatrist anymore, because I won't be seeing the EIP team anymore, so I'll be alone with it.

I don't know about seeing the psychologist - I don't want to put her in danger.

If the meds can help me eventually get to uni - it will be worth it, I just wish people wouldn't go on like it's so amazing.

I'm not just going to stop - well I say that for now.

Why no pdoc and EIP team after February?

Is this the same psychologist you like so much? If so, I think you should definitely see her if you can. You know you can trust her.

Me too. When I was interviewing my son's new pdoc before I decided to take my son to him, one of the first things he said was the medications are oversold. I loved that he wasn't against the meds, but he also didn't think they were the whole answer - or even the most important part of the answer. When he said that, I knew he would be a great pdoc. I don't trust people who say that the drugs are the most important thing, but I also don't trust people who say the drugs are totally evil and no one should ever take them.

The middle path is usually best, IMO. If we're honest about the medications - their usefulness and their limitations - we can use them as tools in the most effective way possible.

That's why I think you should ask someone to help you. If you have someone hand you the medication every time you're supposed to take it, then they can remind you that you intended to give it a real chance this time. But it can't be someone who's really controlling or coercive. It has to be a collaborator, someone you trust.

My 3 years will be up then - it doesn't even seem like it's been so long. I like talking to my nurses, because I know they are on my side, even though they don't always believe me.

Yeah its the psychologist I think is awesome - I want to see her, just dont want her getting hurt.

My nurse says start slow, keep it low, but they still go on like its only thing that will help, then when I take it, they'll change to, the medication will help the therapy because thats the important part.

I'm glad you found a good Dr for your son though.

Well my parents pour it out - I have the liquid kind, I just get sick of it.

The Dr said the medication will be long term, I'm sick of it already.

Just focus on the immediate future. The next month, let's say.

Why are you sick of it? What specifically is causing you problems?

I just don't want to have to rely on it.

Other people don't need to take meds - I don't want to either, I never used to need any.

Tons of people take meds. I even took an antidepressant 10 or 12 years ago to get through a tough spot in my life. I took it for maybe 2 or 3 years then discontinued it when it was no longer needed. And I used Xanax as needed very briefly 7 years ago right after I adopted my younger son and I was finding it too stressful to handle without help. I remember being paralyzed with panic a few times. There was one time in particular I honestly don't think I could have functioned without the Xanax. I think I would have wigged out in an important meeting with the case manager if I hadn't had something to calm me down a bit. Sometimes life is just overwhelming and it swamps our best efforts to stay strong.

You would be absolutely astonished at how many people take medication. They just don't talk about it, because they think they're admitting they're weak. Do what you need to do to take care of yourself.

P.S. I quit that antidepressant cold turkey twice, and both times I found myself very anxious and very, very angry. I had to go back on it both times. Finally I wised up and worked with a doctor to wean myself off gradually.

P.P.S. I'm remembering now how much I resisted taking that antidepressant. I remember filling the prescription and taking the first couple of pills and hating the way it made me feel, so I stopped. Then one day I was watching a children's cartoon, Clifford the Big Red Dog. And I was openly weeping because one of the little dogs on the program was sad because he had to give up his squeaky toy - a hedgehog, I remember. And I thought, "Jesus, I need to get a grip!"

So I took the damned pills, and they brightened my mood enough that I was able to get through. And it wasn't because I have a brain based disease. And it didn't last forever. I just used a tool that made it possible for me to keep moving forward in my life.

Most people do take meds but doesn't that seem wrong? Shouldn't most people be healthy and just some people need meds? But it's the opposite? Why is everyone sick? Unless they're not? We're just supposed to think we are?
I know sometimes I make things up and believe them when I shouldn't. But also sometimes there really is a danger there and I don't want to just ignore it.
Right now I'm really concerned my food is being poisoned. The tap water seems okay but I'm boiling it just in case.

That's a good point. Joanna Moncrieff says that when psych meds help people, we can look at it two different ways. First, we can take a disease-centered approach and say that the drugs correct an underlying disease process. Alternatively, we can take a drug-centered approach and say that the drug has effects on us which we may find beneficial.

The second makes more sense to me, and people have no doubt been using drugs this way since mankind began - ever since the first guy or gal found that chewing of the leaf of a particular plant made him or her feel happier or more energetic.

I'm sorry you're worried about your food. My son goes through that sometimes. He believes that when he orders a sandwich at a sandwich shop, the workers spit in it or throw it on the floor before they serve it to him. It doesn't seem to stop him from eating it, though.

I just thought of something. Maybe that's why he likes Subway and Jimmie John's. They make the sandwich right in front of you while you're watching.

One time he lost a huge amount of weight - about 30 pounds in a few months. I guess he virtually stopped eating. I'm still not sure why. He keeps giving different reasons. He told a couple of people it was because he was being poisoned, but now he insists that's not true. Shrug.

I don't eat from restaurants. I assume they mess with the food. But really food you get from anywhere has already passed through so many hands there's probably no point anyway.
Either way with the medicine I still don't think it seems right.